"Rock music and the Christian"

[Winston Smith]

Back in college (1991-ish) a friend of mine gave me a cassette tape called "Rock music and the Christian". It was a recording of a 60-90 minute presentation about backward masking in rock 'n roll music, presented by a Christian Fundamentalist-type guy who's name now escapes me, but I think it was Mike Adams.

Anyways, notwithstanding the guy's agenda, it was without a doubt the best presentation of 'Satanic' rock 'n roll backward masking' I've ever heard, and included a lot of pretty interesting history of occultism in the rock 'n roll industry as well. (We've all heard about supposed backward masking and hidden messages, but this was an actual presentation of categorical examples - awesome.)

Has anyone else ever heard of this guy (I'm not 100% certain about the name 'Mike Adams') or the presentation (I am 100% certain about the title 'Rock music and the Christian')?

[Dung Beetle]

I picked up this book, Why Knock Rock? by Dan and Steve Peters, at a thrift shop, and really got a bang out of it. When I first read your OP, I thought it might be the same, but I guess not.

I always suspected they might be the ones who gave a presentation at the private Christian school I went to…maybe it was this Mike Adams guy. It was fascinating. I remember being warned against:

Fleetwood Mac (particularly the song Little Lies)
George Harrison’s My Sweet Lord (pagan gods)
KISS (Kids in Satan’s Service, of course)
Ozzy (bat-eating, etc.)
The Starland Vocal Band’s Afternoon Delight (it ain’t about skyrockets)

This would have been the early eighties.

[Diogenes the Cynic]

There is no such thing as backwards masking.

[yanceylebeef]

The same type of people who claimed there was "Backward Masking" in rock music are the same type who are hearing ghost voices in the white noise and static of un-tuned radios.

If artist knew about subliminal backward masking, it would say stuff like "Buy our Records", or "See our Shows and buy a T-shirt"

[Winston Smith]

Originally Posted by Diogenes the Cynic

There is no such thing as backwards masking.

Dio, why don't go go shit in someone else's thread, eh? Thanks.

Thanks, Dio.

[Winston Smith]

Originally Posted by Dung Beetle

I picked up this book, Why Knock Rock? by Dan and Steve Peters, at a thrift shop, and really got a bang out of it. When I first read your OP, I thought it might be the same, but I guess not.

I always suspected they might be the ones who gave a presentation at the private Christian school I went to…maybe it was this Mike Adams guy. It was fascinating. I remember being warned against:

Fleetwood Mac (particularly the song Little Lies)
George Harrison’s My Sweet Lord (pagan gods)
KISS (Kids in Satan’s Service, of course)
Ozzy (bat-eating, etc.)
The Starland Vocal Band’s Afternoon Delight (it ain’t about skyrockets)

This would have been the early eighties.

Yeah, the one I've got doesn't talk about KISS, but he hits the other three you mention. Also, Led Zeppelin's Stairway to Heaven (in particular) and a lot about Jimmy Page. The backward masking segments definitely required something akin to suspension of disbelief, because (as our old pal Dio so helpfully pointed out), there's really no such thing as backward masking. I think yanceylebeef is right - if rock stars were going to beam subliminal messages into our brains it would no doubt be geared more towards increased record sales than Satanism.

[Chronos]

There is such a thing as backwards masking, but when played normally, it just sounds like jumbled noise.

[Sunspace]

It must be scary to live in such a demon-haunted world.

[Mahaloth]

I wonder what they'd make of Crimson Thorn, one of the heaviest bands I've ever heard(and quite serious Christians, too). I'm not sure if my link here is really to their heaviest song, but it gives a taste of them.

Crimson Thorn - Withered

[HeyHomie]

I can tell you that Mike Adams is far from the only fundamentalist Christian who believes that Satan is all over rock & roll. I grew up in the 80's when such talk was all the rage. It seems to have died down quite a bit now, if not entirely.

There are lots of Christian acts that are rock & roll, heavy metal, etc. Most (all?) of those who oppose rock & roll on Satanic grounds don't give a pass to Christian musicians doing the same thing.

[Derleth]

Originally Posted by Diogenes the Cynic

There is no such thing as backwards masking.

If you read this post backwards, you get "Satan does jumping-jacks with Ralph Nader in Waukegan."

[Idle Thoughts]

I'm going to shoot this over to CS since it seems just a bit better suited for that place.

[Skammer]

The late David Wilkerson of The Cross and the Switchblade fame was a well known anti-rock crusader, but there were plenty of others in the 70s and especially the 80s.

I once went to a seminar led by a guy who claimed to be a roadie for all kinds of rock bands in the late 70s and 80s and "exposed" all kinds of things about backward masking and submliminal messages on album cover art. Alice Cooper is posessed by a demon! Rush promotes communism! "Pour Some Sugar on Me" is a Satanic ritual!

ETA: I forgot he also told us D&D (which I played) was a tool of the occult and I was opening the door to demonic infestation. Whee!

[Infovore]

Could it have been Paul and Jan Crouch's son (whose name escapes me)? When I was a kid/teenager my mom used to watch TBN (Trinity Broadcasting Network) which was full of televangelists with big hair, bad suits, and scary eyelashes. I do remember sitting down with her to watch the presentation on rock music, though--I thought it was interesting even though I was convinced it was utter hogwash. He talked about Highway to Hell, Stairway to Heaven (discussing various pagan imagery in the song), Blue Oyster Cult, and an ELO (I think) song where if you play it backwards you can clearly hear "The music is reversible, but time is not. Turn back! Turn back!" and several other popular bands/albums from the 70s/early 80s.

Does this sound at all familiar?

[An Arky]

I forgot who it was, but IIRC, one rock dude said something to the effect of "if backward masking worked, we'd have told them to buy more of our records, plus studio time is too expensive to mess around with that, anyway". I would venture that the percentage of rock musicians who give a crap about Satan is negligible. Psychochristians like to tarbaby rock musicians with the Satan thing because a lot of them are simply antiauthoritarian, which of course includes religious authority. The backward masking legend only still bounces around due to the innate credulousness of religious types.

[Winston Smith]

Originally Posted by Infovore

Could it have been Paul and Jan Crouch's son (whose name escapes me)? When I was a kid/teenager my mom used to watch TBN (Trinity Broadcasting Network) which was full of televangelists with big hair, bad suits, and scary eyelashes. I do remember sitting down with her to watch the presentation on rock music, though--I thought it was interesting even though I was convinced it was utter hogwash. He talked about Highway to Hell, Stairway to Heaven (discussing various pagan imagery in the song), Blue Oyster Cult, and an ELO (I think) song where if you play it backwards you can clearly hear "The music is reversible, but time is not. Turn back! Turn back!" and several other popular bands/albums from the 70s/early 80s.

Does this sound at all familiar?

It sure does. I'll try an updated google search - thanks

[Kamino Neko]

Originally Posted by An Arky

I forgot who it was, but IIRC, one rock dude said something to the effect of "if backward masking worked, we'd have told them to buy more of our records, plus studio time is too expensive to mess around with that, anyway".

Probably Rob Halford, since Judas Priest were at the centre of a big 'Backmasking' thing back in the 80s. *wikis* Yeah, that was Halford.

[Tanbarkie]

Originally Posted by yanceylebeef

The same type of people who claimed there was "Backward Masking" in rock music are the same type who are hearing ghost voices in the white noise and static of un-tuned radios.

If artist knew about subliminal backward masking, it would say stuff like "Buy our Records", or "See our Shows and buy a T-shirt"

Suddenly, I understand the success of Justin Bieber.

[Diogenes the Cynic]

Originally Posted by An Arky

I forgot who it was, but IIRC, one rock dude said something to the effect of "if backward masking worked, we'd have told them to buy more of our records, plus studio time is too expensive to mess around with that, anyway".

It was someone from Judas Priest, I believe, after a lawsuit claiming that a couple of kids had shot themselves because of subliminal messages in their music. Extensive audio analysis led a judge to say that the claims were complete horseshit and throw the case out.

[Suburban Plankton]

I recall my mother coming home from a Parents' Club meeting when I was in probably 7th grade at the local Parish school and asking if I listened to any of the "Heavy Metal" music. Apparently there had been a presentation that night warning them all of the evils of backward masking. I think I told her something along the lines of "yes, mom, I do. And they're making all of that stuff up". I even played Stairway to Heaven backwards on my turntable for her. She never mentioned the subject again.

And while I'm here, I feel compelled to say:


I snort the nose, Lucifer! Banana, banana!

[Der Trihs]

Originally Posted by Diogenes the Cynic

There is no such thing as backwards masking.

It's been done on occasion, but just as a joke, an "Easter Egg".

[Infovore]

Originally Posted by Suburban Plankton

And while I'm here, I feel compelled to say:


I snort the nose, Lucifer! Banana, banana!

[Infovore]

Originally Posted by Winston Smith

It sure does. I'll try an updated google search - thanks

Here's a page with a YouTube of the first part of the presentation (scroll to the bottom of the page).

[MovieMogul]

I remember presentations like this to my youth group at church growing up. The one specific thing I remember was how the album insert for "Hotel California" allegedly had a picture of Anton Lavey. That, and the presenter really loved telling the origin of the band name Duran Duran.

[MPB in Salt Lake]

Originally Posted by ArchiveGuy

That, and the presenter really loved telling the origin of the band name Duran Duran.

Can you tell me what the supposed origin of the name Duran Duran is?

I have never heard anything about what the name "means" if anything.

[Kamino Neko]

Originally Posted by MPB in Salt Lake

Can you tell me what the supposed origin of the name Duran Duran is?

Don't need to make up anything to make it offensive to devout Christian types - it's from Durand Durand, a character from Barbarella. His major scene was when he used the Excessive Machine on Barbarella, which was basically meant to give her a lethal orgasm. (It...didn't work, because, well...)

[I-VI-ii-V]

I think you mean Michael Mills from Battle Creek, MI.

Here's an example of his nuttiness.

A buddy of mine commemorated June 6, 2006 (6/6/6) with a 3 CD mix-tape of 76 songs having to do with Satan/the Devil. Four sermons by Michael Mills were on it.

[Gleena]

I've always loved Neil Peart's take on the whole thing, since Rush is often mentioned in backward masking conversations and other 'ZOMG SATANIC' type sermons.

Originally Posted by Neil Peart

As one who knows many of these "demonic figures" personally, especially some of those mentioned in the article, the idea of some of these sold-out, burnt-out, cynical, strutting peacocks being so deeply and religiously committed to anything (save their "image" and chart numbers) is also a bit of a joke. And a pretty lame one at that!

Whole article is worth a read, he's on a roll. It's from 1981. Worthy of a Pit rant.

http://www.2112.net/powerwindows/tra...dailytexan.htm

[John DiFool]

Sounds like something "Cecil" would have written a column about, at some point.

[kenobi 65]

Originally Posted by Der Trihs

It's been done on occasion, but just as a joke, an "Easter Egg".

ELO did it a number of times, but, as you note, always as "Easter Eggs".

At the beginning of "Fire On High", there are clear backwards vocals. Played in reverse, it's drummer Bev Bevan saying, "The music is reversible, but time is not. Turn back! Turn back! Turn back! Turn Back!" This was done in response to allegations that the song "Eldorado", on their previous album, had backwards-masked Satanic lyrics.

When the backwards-masking hysteria was at its peak in the early 1980s, they did an album entitled "Secret Messages", which contained a large number of intentional backwards tracks (including one, at the beginning of "Rock 'n' Roll Is King" which says, "thank you for listening").

[Thudlow Boink]

Originally Posted by Der Trihs

It's been done on occasion, but just as a joke, an "Easter Egg".

A bunch of examples are listed (under "Music") at the TVTropes page on Subliminal Seduction.

[Johnny Q]

There's always the classic one from Pink Floyd's The Wall:

"Congratulations. You have found the secret message...."

[njtt]

Originally Posted by Diogenes the Cynic

There is no such thing as backwards masking.

Actually there is such a thing, but it is not the thing that this thread is concerned with.

[No umlaut for U]

Originally Posted by Derleth

If you read this post backwards, you get "Satan does jumping-jacks with Ralph Nader in Waukegan."

Thanks--that one made my day!

[KRC]

Subliminal Seduction?


Way to make kids run to the store so they could see all the dirty words on the cracker boxes. And yes, I think the anti rock guy came through Albuquerque and delivered his lecture here in the early 80's. I ultimately decided he took everything too literally and was even trying to convince people that songs which were about violence and drugs but clearly not in favor of them were sinful. (Because if we don't ever hear of unpleasant things, that means they go away, don't they?)

Don't know about backward masking; I heard the supposed Stairway to Heaven message about 40 times and each time it was different. I could make out a Satan but if I snored enough someone would probably hear me call upon him in my sleep.

[Ludovic]

Whenever I listen to Queen I get a sudden urge to scout mare wanna (because it's sfun.)

[Dung Beetle]

Originally Posted by Suburban Plankton

I snort the nose, Lucifer! Banana, banana!

Devil Bunnies!

[Annie-Xmas]

If you want to investigate Rock Music from a (batshit) Christian point of view, be prepared to waste a few weeks of your life here

The Jonas Brother's song song, KIDS OF THE FUTURE played backwards praises Satan, saying: “I speak for Satan, Satan, Satan. My eet forsaken Satan, Satan!!!”

[Le Ministre de l'au-delà]

Has anyone ever proved that backmasked messages are perceived on any level other than by playing the song backwards?

[Skammer]

Oh, I almost forgot -- the guy I listened to who railed against devil music reluctantly acknowledged that it was impossible for the bands to do it on purpose (except when they obviously did, like the easter egg examples). The fact that the messages appeared without the band's intent was CLEAR PROOF THAT THEY WERE BEING SUPERNATURALLY USED BY SATAN TO SPREAD HIS MESSAGE.

[Kamino Neko]

Originally Posted by Ludovic

Whenever I listen to Queen I get a sudden urge to scout mare wanna (because it's sfun.)

I was going to link this with a joke, but I couldn't think of anything funnier than the actual truth. DJ Lobsterdust mashes up Pastor Gary Greenwald, with the forward version of Another One Bites The Dust, and Midfield General's Devil in Sports Casual.

[beowulf573]

Simon Singh and backwards Led Zepplin.

[Broomstick]

How come these Christian anti-rockers never seem to get around to mentioning Jim Morrison of the Doors? What with all the weird lyrics, sex, drugs, and his actual participation in NeoPagan ceremonies (most famously a 1970 "handfasting" with Patricia Kennealy.) You'd think he'd be a natural target for those guys.

[Sam A. Robrin]

Originally Posted by Broomstick

How come these Christian anti-rockers never seem to get around to mentioning Jim Morrison of the Doors? What with all the weird lyrics, sex, drugs, and his actual participation in NeoPagan ceremonies (most famously a 1970 "handfasting" with Patricia Kennealy.) You'd think he'd be a natural target for those guys.

But "DOOR" spelled backwards is ... "ROOD"! (For that matter, "Led Zeppelin" spelled backwards is almost "Nipplez Deal," but that, they'd certainly object to.
)

Also, there are Christian messages in rock and roll. Get out a map and trace the route suggested in the first verse of Chuck Berry's "Sweet Little Sixteen" and see what shape you get!

[Eugene of Sandwich]

I am a practicing skeptic and don't go in for all the rock = satan crap (it may possibly = stupid but YMMV) but I do recall the rage years ago about rock music causing suicides, backward masking (horrors!) and satanic messages. 99% of it was pure hysterical bunk but some folks did get a kick out of including some tidbits for the nitwits to savor. I recall one from Black Oak Arkansas (not sure of the song. maybe 'When Electricity Came To Arkansas?') where Jim Dandy Mangrum clearly says over and over "Nay-Tasssss" which rendered backwardly is a rather overt and creepy "SSSSSatan!." Nice job, Jimmy! I'm sure Mom was proud of that one.

[BigT]

Wouldn't Naytassss sound like Sat-TANE?

[Derleth]

Here's an excerpt, with commentary, of what Poundstone said in Big Secrets on the matter. It provides a number of examples, including two from Black Oak Arkansas: "When Electricity Came to Arkansas" and "Lord Have Mercy On My Soul". He didn't find intentional back masking in either song.

If anyone wants to test this stuff on their own, Audacity can certainly handle the process of reversing arbitrary sections of audio.

[Doctor]

I have an interview with Styx from 1977 where the interviewer asks the band about the accusations of backwards messages on their albums. Their reply? We have never put any backwards messages on our albums, but we have put a lot of forward messages on them.