Backwards messages on LPs

Factual Questions
1

I remeber attending a Christian seminar on ‘Why rock music is Satanic’ (wearing my Sepultura T-Shirt and playing Devil's Advocate', natch). The guy leading this seminar played several records which he believed contained messages recorded backwards, including Queen's Another One Bites The Dust’, the chorus of which, when played backwards, sounds a bit like “It’s fun to smoke marajuana” (once you’ve been told that’s what it sounds like).

Then there was the whole Judas Priest trial, too. You remember. Some manic depressive blew part of his face off while listening to a Judas Priest record (well, wouldn’t you?).

Is their any `real’ evidence that human beings can subliminally decode such messages? Or should we REALLY be worried about people who go looking for hidden messages in records by playing them backwards?

Mothra (The Giant Moth).

2

I think you should be more worried about the people telling you about so called backwards messages than any REAL messages there. I’ve been listening to metal for a long time now and it’s never made me do anything. when I was like 11 people like that told me all sorts of crap about the music and then when you talk with other people and repeat what they told you as “truth” to find out it was a lie really gets ya.

but as for there being any REAL evidence I haven’t seen it anywhere else but some loons imagination. However, there was a guy on 98 Rock in Baltimore a year or so ago that was talking about just this, but he said that you could hear it whenever anyone even spoke. he had all sorts of proof too mainly from Clinton with backwards messages about Monica. but that’s the only “proof” I’ve ever heard.

3

yeah, i heard this same dude (i hope it’s the same guy- this is too stupid of a concept to be spreading) on stern a few months back. he had just come out with a jon benet book, and purported to be able to decoct and decode subliminal messages from the rich and famous. his proof that George W. was having ana ffair? Backwards, he sorta said “Another Monica”. Which of course means… well, anything i make up will be just as believable as the truth, so use your imagination kids.

4

So how come Judas Priest ended up on trial? If there’s no evidence that it’s possible to deliberately put a backwards message in a song and thereby making people commit suicide, why was the case not thrown out? Or was it a law suit, rather than a criminal trial - I can’t remember.

What I’m really interested in is how the people who believe in this sort of thing justify their argument.

5

Judas Priest wasn’t put on trial for what their LP’s said when played backwards, they were put on trial for what they said when played FORWARD.

I don’t think it was a criminal trial-- any good lawyer could have pulled out a copy of the First Amendment and had the case thrown out. I think it was a civil trial - that is, the boy’s parents wanted Judas Priest to pony up some cash for allegedly causing their boy to blow his head off.

Ever heard Dennis Leary’s take on the whole Judas Priest trial? QUOTE: “…(boo hoo hoo) my kid started listening to Judas Priest (boo hoo hoo) and then he got into Satan (boo hoo hoo) and then he blew his head off (boo hoo hoo). Well that’s great! That sets a legal precedent, doesn’t it? Does that mean I can sue Dan Fogleberg for making me into a pussy in the mid 70’s?”

hee hee hee

6

IIRC, The Judas Priest fiasco was a civil suit and was eventually dismissed.

7

It is quite possible to deliberately put a backwards message on a song. In fact, quite a few artists have done it. What those messages are about and whether or not they’ve contributed to suicide, Satanism and other such stuff is a matter of how much hysteria you want to believe.

In other cases, people have played records backwards and heard things that the artist simply never intended to say; in those cases you can only hear the message if you’ve been told what to listen for. Of course, many anti-rock hysterics have used this as a weapon against rock. But as other posts have pointed out, you can play a speech by George W. Bush backwards and hear hidden meanings, IF you know what to listen for. Hell, you can play one of those anti-rock crusaders’ sermons backwards and hear hidden meanings, one supposes.

8

I recall hearing seminars on this back in the mid 80’s. Must go in cycles. back then it was the usual Queen songs, plus some others I don’t recall.
I think it is possible to do it, I’ve played with Sound Forge, which will play back segments in reverse, so I’d assume you could save that snippet like that and put in a track of a song you’re recording.
Now, will it cause you to go on a killing spree/worship pink flamingoes or tithe to your local church? I doubt it seriously.

9

IIRC Priest was put on trial for Subliminal messages on the “Sin after Sin” album. IMO it’s not really a good album, but there is one song, “Beyond the Realms of Death” that is a hell of a depressing song and I guess I could see blowing my head off if I was drunk/stoned and damned depressed, but it’s STILL not priest’s fault.

10

either on revolver or rubber soul there is a song with a backward chorus. They accidentally put the tape in the machine backwards and John Lennon heard himself singing it backward and he liked it better that way, so it’s on the album. I think it must be rubber soul, because I have revolver and I don’t remember hearing it. The white album and several beatles albums were involved in something similar to the subliminal thing–people became convinced that Paul McCartney was dead. He was the only one facing away from the camera on Sgt Pepper, “the walrus was paul” is a lyric on the white album. The End makes reference to a famous person dying in a car crash. “Don’t Let Me Down” has the lyric “he was in a car crash and he lost his hair.” And on and on. When John Lennon was shot, I went through all my albums looking for references to his death. “I know what it’s like to be dead,” John sang on Revolver. “Happiness is a warm gun (bang bang shoot shoot)”. Rocky Raccoon and Bungalow Bill both discuss shootings. Charles Manson built his entire witchy, murderous philosophy on the songs on the white album.

On the lighter side, someone played the Mr. Ed theme song backward and heard Mr. Ed promoting satan. Proof positive, if you ask me.

The origin of this cisum sdrawkcab issue might come much earlier, but my recollection was that it didn’t start until after Blatty’s novel The Exorcist in which Ragan, the satanically possessed little girl, began speaking nonsense, which recorded and played backward was the voice of satan. Captain Howdy was the name of the demon. Naturally, there was a rock song about the same time featuring a character known as Captain Howdy.

11

Not only is the idea of backmasking crazy, it’s also quite impracticable. What is the point of putting a message on a record backwards, when most turntables can’t spin backwards? Surely it defeats the purpose of putting the message there in the first place.

It’s no better with tape decks or CD players. These devices simply do not replay backwards.

I’ve done the experiment of playing “stairway to Heaven” backwards, and all I could here was the usual sounds of inverted music. If you had a big enough imagination, you could hear anything you liked in this mish-mash of noise.

I would suggest the wankers who make a big deal over “backmasking” are simply reacting to a perceived image of the band in question. How come all the the “offenders” are heavy metal acts? Why doesn’t someone find evil messages on a Donovan record? After all, wasn’t he at the centre of the free-love, psychadelia, LSD era?

12

No. It was definitely backwards. The song was about suicide and the ‘victims’ parents claimed that a backwards message of ‘Do it’ came near the end of the song. However, it was not a separately recorded message - it was the actual lyrics that made that sound when reversed. what are the chances of that being deliberate? Pretty slim, I’d say.

I feel really sorry for the parents though. They ended up being puppets of the Christian Fundamentalist/PMRC anti-rock propaganda.

13

My favorite part of the Judas Priest case was the bit where the lawyer for the Plaintiffs played the offending part of the song over and over again in a loop.

“Ooooooiiiiiii” was all I heard the first ten times he played it, but eventually, after further playings, I started to hear the word “Ooooooiiiiiii”.

Does anyone know what this word means?

:wink:

14

gabbyhayes (I love your movies):

The song you’re thinking of is “Rain,” which was the B-side of “Paperback Writer.” It didn’t appear on an album, though. I’ve listened to the backwards portion played forwards using WinAmp; it’s pretty cool.

Edward:

You’re probably talking about David John Oates, the “discoverer” of “reverse speech”; he has a website at http://www.reversespeech.com. Needless to say, several individuals have quite effectively debunked his theories through simple experimentation, by playing snippets of backwards speech for subjects. When given an idea of what they should hear, they hear it. When given no prior ideas, they hear gibberish. You can also play random noise for subjects, and give them an expectation of what to hear, and they’ll hear it. Some debunking can be found at http://www.csicop.org/si/2000-03/reverse-speech.html, and at http://www.skeptics.com.au/journal/revspeech1.htm."

There are lots of deliberately placed backwards material on rock albums. (Styx placed one at the beginning of the song “Heavy Metal Poisoning” on the “Kilroy Was Here” album. It was the Latin phrase “Novus Ordo Seculorum,” which appears on the dollar bill.) Most of the time, though, people are mistaking coincidentally placed reverse phonemes for deliberate words.

15

Gasp! I have just been to http://www.reversespeech.com

Here is a quote:

"Covert speech develops before overt speech. Children speak backwards before they do forwards. Then, as forward speech commences, the two modes of speech gradually combine into one, forming an overall bi-level communication process. "

But which orifice do YOU talk out Mr Oates?

[Sorry, that was a bit crass]

16

? satanic talks Yoda that way the is

…confused I’m

17

The theory here is that you can subconsiously translate the backwards lyrics (etc.)
Some folks view it as a mainline right into your brain without having to pass through the filters that your consiousness imposes on incoming data. For an example (amusing and scary at the same time) see here:

http://www.theadventurers.com/index/

K.

18

This thread gets into two different concepts. I will attempt to address them both.

First and most easily dismissable are the people who just play stuff like George W. Bush speeches backwards and picking out things.

Now, the fact is that almost any human speech played backwards will resemble something - especially if you REALLY want it to.

This is because you have two principals involved. Both the fact that the nature of spoken communication means that something said backwards has the potential to resemble something else, and the nature of human beings to hear things that they want to hear collide into a vast conspiracy.

So, while it does not surprise me that there are words which can be heard when played backwards in speeches, it means nothing more than the fact that we can see things in clouds, and sometimes we need someone to tell us what THEY saw in them before they see it themselves.

Same principal.

The second concept is purposely putting something on a recording that is put to the music backwards. This is an easy studio trick that anyone with the basic sound recorder that comes with Windows can replicate on their computer.

The problem here is that most all of the cases that have come to the public’s attention are cases of the first example above, just set to music.

I remember hearing a member of Judas Priest saying, “It really does sound like we’re saying 'Do it,” doesn’t it?" in fact, during the trial. But they claimed, and I (and most people) believe them, that this was not something intentional.

Even if they did put it in there intentionally, there is no proof that backwards masking has any effect anyone on people. So, Britney Spears could have “Kill yourself now! You don’t deserve to live” intentionally put backwards into “Oops…” and it would have no effect anyway.

Now, as I said, someone could put a real backwards message on an album - it would stand out, though, the same way that listening to anything backwards has a quality that makes it stand out.

My favorite was on Overkill’s Feel The Fire debut disc from 1985. At the end of the last song on side two, you hear some gibberish. When this gibberish is played backwards, you hear the following:

“There’s no message here! You’re going to ruin your needle, asshole!”

Yer pal,
Satan

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19

Years ago at the University of Maryland Foreign Language lab, you could play cassettes backwards.
If you turned one of the volume knobs all the way down, and then turned another one up, you could very clearly hear the opposite side of the cassette’s track going backwards. (That makes sense right?)

Anyway, concurring with Satan, there are two forms of backward masking. The unintentional one which turns a completely lucid sounding phrase “Another one bites the dust” into a garbled mass that somewhat resembles “Sfun ta smoke mar wana” was obviously not intended. Similarly, on the Beatles Revolution #9, “number nine…number nine…” really does sound something like “turn me on dead man”. Not intended no doubt but extremely creepy nonetheless.

As for deliberately placing a backwards message on a record, here are a few examples: (source–“The New Book of Rock Lists”)

“Darling Nikki” by Prince. At the end of the song, when played backwards, very clearly Prince says something along the lines of “How are you? I’m fine because the Lord is coming soon.”

“Good bye Blue Sky” Pink Floyd. (everyone knows this one)
contains “Congratulations! You’ve just decoded the secret message. Please send your answer to ‘Old Pink’ in care of the Funny Farm.”

“Fire is High” ELO Contains “The music’s reversible but time is not. Turn back, turn back, turn back”

“No anchovies please” J. Geils Band. (not included in the book) has some gibberish that reveals something I can’t remember right now.

20

!esnes sekam taht ,haeY