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Old 08-19-2011, 12:27 PM
Steken Steken is offline
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How are particularly horrific criminals treated by the other inmates?

Look up the comments section to any news story about a particularly horrific criminal (Levi Aron, Anders Behring Breivik), and you’ll find plenty of comments along the lines of “this creep won’t last a week in jail, the other inmates will take care of him reeeeeal good.” In cases where the death penalty is out of the question, this seems to be public revenge fantasy #1 – “if the government won’t kill him, let’s hope the other inmates will.”

Sidestepping all questions about whether the death penalty should exist or not, or whether such revenge fantasies are moral or immoral, my question is simple: Does it ever happen? Are notorious criminals sometimes killed/tortured/mistreated by other inmates, not as a result of internal power struggles or the like, but as “revenge” for their original crimes? Are there famous examples of this?
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Old 08-19-2011, 12:34 PM
yabob yabob is offline
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Jeffrey Dahmer was killed by another inmate, who himself seems to have some loose screws:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christopher_Scarver
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Old 08-19-2011, 12:34 PM
Bri2k Bri2k is offline
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Sure it happens. Jeffrey Dahmer is a good example.

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Old 08-19-2011, 12:50 PM
Steken Steken is offline
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Yeah, but I'm not sure about Scarver's motives. Could have been "revenge," sure, but the Wiki link doesn't really say... Well, apart from quoting him as telling a guard that "God told me to do it."
  #5  
Old 08-19-2011, 01:01 PM
Duckster Duckster is online now
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You don't have to be a "horrific criminal." Just be a defenseless, segregated prisoner and there is a prison riot, a la the New Mexico 1980 prison riot.
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Old 08-19-2011, 01:28 PM
Steken Steken is offline
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Originally Posted by Duckster View Post
You don't have to be a "horrific criminal." Just be a defenseless, segregated prisoner and there is a prison riot, a la the New Mexico 1980 prison riot.
I'm well aware that inmates kill other inmates all the time, riot or no riot.

But I'm asking specifically about criminals being killed, in jail, as a result of the notoriety or heinousness of their original crimes.
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Old 08-19-2011, 01:34 PM
muldoonthief muldoonthief is offline
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John Geoghan, convicted pedophile priest, was strangled in his cell by another inmate. There's evidence that the murder was planned, not just spur of the moment.
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Old 08-19-2011, 01:57 PM
isaiahrobinson isaiahrobinson is offline
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Originally Posted by Steken View Post
I'm well aware that inmates kill other inmates all the time, riot or no riot.

But I'm asking specifically about criminals being killed, in jail, as a result of the notoriety or heinousness of their original crimes.
There's a number of them that have been attacked in prison here in the UK, particularly those guilty of crimes involving murdering children. I don't know of any who were actually killed though. Ian Huntley had scalding water thrown in his face and separately had his throat slashed. His girlfriend, Maxine Carr, who was convicted of trying to help him cover up the murders, also had boiling water thrown at her, although apparently it missed. Ian Brady was attacked a number of times, including one in which he was stabbed in both eyes with a pen, permanently blinding him in his left eye. His girlfriend too, Myra Hindley, claimed she was repeatedly attacked in prison. The man who killed Milly Dowler was attacked a few weeks ago, although only received 'cuts'. The man who killed "Baby P" was first beaten in prison, and a few months later also had scalding water thrown in his face, scarring him for life. According to that article one of the inmates said:

Quote:
Fellow inmates applauded as he was ambushed, according to The Sun.

One told the paper: 'To say Barker is disliked is an understatement - he is reviled. The other inmates all hate him with a passion.

'When Barker came here every one knew what he had done to Baby P. Your card is marked if you have a crime against your name concerning kids.

'After the attack everyone was in good spirits, knowing someone had hurt Barker. The guy who did it will be getting applauded every-where he goes now.

'It will be seen as a badge of honor and it is just a matter of time before someone else takes a shot at Barker too'.
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Old 08-19-2011, 02:01 PM
isaiahrobinson isaiahrobinson is offline
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Incidentally, Ian Brady and Ian Huntley are arguably the two most notorious murderers in the UK, and the Baby P and Milly Dowler murders received huge media attention. I don't know whether that's why those killers were attacked - whether they were one-off things - or whether all such murderers are routinely attacked in UK prisons but without it being reported. Probably something in the middle I'd guess.
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Old 08-19-2011, 02:05 PM
isaiahrobinson isaiahrobinson is offline
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Although I have to say that Sun quote looks suspiciously perfect, and it's unattributed...
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Old 08-19-2011, 02:06 PM
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How are particularly horrific criminals treated by the other inmates?

Far better than they treated their victims.
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Old 08-19-2011, 02:31 PM
Baron Greenback Baron Greenback is offline
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Originally Posted by isaiahrobinson View Post
Although I have to say that Sun quote looks suspiciously perfect, and it's unattributed...
Those are classic newspaper made-up quotes. See also "an onlooker said" and "a bystander commented". "Friends of" means the individual concerned, or their PR people, and "sources close to" similarly, but more often used for politicians.
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Old 08-19-2011, 02:39 PM
Baron Greenback Baron Greenback is offline
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Originally Posted by isaiahrobinson View Post
Incidentally, Ian Brady and Ian Huntley are arguably the two most notorious murderers in the UK, and the Baby P and Milly Dowler murders received huge media attention. I don't know whether that's why those killers were attacked - whether they were one-off things - or whether all such murderers are routinely attacked in UK prisons but without it being reported. Probably something in the middle I'd guess.
Peter Sutcliffe is probably the most notorious murderer still alive in Britain (well, him or Brady), and he's been attacked a few times, even in the Broadmoor secure hospital. Dennis Nilsen, on the other hand, has always been in regular prisons (albeit the chunkier end of Cat-A) and doesn't seem to have ever been attacked.

Edit: Re Nilsen,had to look him up as unsure of spelling - a lot of his victims are still unidentified. What a sad thing that is.

Last edited by Baron Greenback; 08-19-2011 at 02:41 PM.
  #14  
Old 08-19-2011, 03:36 PM
kenobi 65 kenobi 65 is online now
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I've always heard that criminals who have been convicted of crimes against children can expect to have short life expectancies in prison, but I don't know if there are numbers to back that up.
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Old 08-19-2011, 03:56 PM
astro astro is offline
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I would suspect the "prison revenge" meme in which people are attached specifically because of their crimes by justice seeking fellow criminals is way overblown.

People may be attacked because they are mentally "off" or obnoxious, or perceived as weak, or possibly just for the notoriety of being their attacker. If there really a higher incidence of attacks I think it would have more to do with the personality of the criminal being attacked rather than any retributive justice seeking by fellow inmates.
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Old 08-19-2011, 04:24 PM
anson2995 anson2995 is offline
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A prison is full of dangerous people, so the fact that some inmates are targeted may say less about their notoriety and more about their surroundings.

Many of the most notorious criminals in the federal prisons are kept in isolation in SuperMax facilities (guys like Ted Kaczynski and Ramzi Yousef.

That doesn't seem to happen in state prisons, for whatever reason. But it's not clear that the death of Dahmer or the attempts to kill Charles Manson were related to the sort of "revenge" that the OP suggests.

Last edited by anson2995; 08-19-2011 at 04:25 PM.
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Old 08-19-2011, 04:26 PM
Laggard Laggard is offline
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Originally Posted by kenobi 65 View Post
I've always heard that criminals who have been convicted of crimes against children can expect to have short life expectancies in prison, but I don't know if there are numbers to back that up.
They are often housed together away from general population for this reason.
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Old 08-19-2011, 04:57 PM
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Originally Posted by anson2995 View Post
That doesn't seem to happen in state prisons, for whatever reason. But it's not clear that the death of Dahmer or the attempts to kill Charles Manson were related to the sort of "revenge" that the OP suggests.
Where did you get that idea? Most state prison systems have segregation units.
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Old 08-19-2011, 05:09 PM
Steken Steken is offline
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Originally Posted by muldoonthief View Post
John Geoghan, convicted pedophile priest, was strangled in his cell by another inmate. There's evidence that the murder was planned, not just spur of the moment.
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Originally Posted by isaiahrobinson View Post
Ian Huntley had scalding water thrown in his face and separately had his throat slashed. His girlfriend, Maxine Carr, who was convicted of trying to help him cover up the murders, also had boiling water thrown at her, although apparently it missed. Ian Brady was attacked a number of times, including one in which he was stabbed in both eyes with a pen, permanently blinding him in his left eye. His girlfriend too, Myra Hindley, claimed she was repeatedly attacked in prison. The man who killed Milly Dowler was attacked a few weeks ago, although only received 'cuts'. The man who killed "Baby P" was first beaten in prison, and a few months later also had scalding water thrown in his face, scarring him for life.
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Originally Posted by Baron Greenback View Post
Peter Sutcliffe is probably the most notorious murderer still alive in Britain (well, him or Brady), and he's been attacked a few times, even in the Broadmoor secure hospital.
Ah, looks like it does happen from time to time, then... Thanks for the info.
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Old 08-19-2011, 05:12 PM
Steken Steken is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by isaiahrobinson View Post
Although I have to say that Sun quote looks suspiciously perfect, and it's unattributed...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Baron Greenback View Post
Those are classic newspaper made-up quotes. See also "an onlooker said" and "a bystander commented". "Friends of" means the individual concerned, or their PR people, and "sources close to" similarly, but more often used for politicians.
Agreed, it's probably a made-up quote, but the string of examples mentioned by isaiahrobinson certainly seem to suggest there's a good chance that "prison revenge" is a real thing, at least in the U.K.
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Old 08-19-2011, 05:17 PM
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I would suspect the "prison revenge" meme in which people are attached specifically because of their crimes by justice seeking fellow criminals is way overblown.

People may be attacked because they are mentally "off" or obnoxious, or perceived as weak, or possibly just for the notoriety of being their attacker. If there really a higher incidence of attacks I think it would have more to do with the personality of the criminal being attacked rather than any retributive justice seeking by fellow inmates.
Good point.
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Old 08-19-2011, 05:21 PM
anson2995 anson2995 is offline
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Where did you get that idea? Most state prison systems have segregation units.
Yes they do. My point was that notorious prisoners aren't segregated as a matter of policy. Manson and Dahmer were in the general population. So are many other "famous" prisoners, like Mark Chapman, David Berkowitz, Arthur Shawcross, etc.
  #23  
Old 08-19-2011, 05:38 PM
Little Nemo Little Nemo is online now
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Yes they do. My point was that notorious prisoners aren't segregated as a matter of policy. Manson and Dahmer were in the general population. So are many other "famous" prisoners, like Mark Chapman, David Berkowitz, Arthur Shawcross, etc.
Where are you getting this information? I worked in the NY prison system. Chapman and Berkowitz are in segregation units. So was Shawcross when he was alive.

I've also read that Manson is in a segregation unit in California.
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Old 08-19-2011, 05:48 PM
kunilou kunilou is offline
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We just had a story yesterday that someone convicted of murder in a very public case was transfered to a priswon in another state. Officials won't say anything about it, but that has to be more than just an overcrowding issue.
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Old 08-19-2011, 06:33 PM
fifty-six fifty-six is offline
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If you are in general population most people do not give a shit what you are in for. Being housed in Protective custody automatically makes you a target. Not because you raped a baby but because you may be a narc. Rats are lower than anyone.

Last edited by fifty-six; 08-19-2011 at 06:34 PM.
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Old 08-19-2011, 08:07 PM
HeyHomie HeyHomie is offline
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Two things:

First, I read a book written by a guy who had done some time, and he stated categorically that those who commit crimes against children (be it murder, abuse, rape, etc) make convenient targets for the other prisoners. One, because many of the other prisoners were abused themselves, and two, because harming a child isn't an act of courage (like, say, killing a cop would be). A book I've read that was written by a former warden said basically the same thing, only in a different way.

Second, another book I read was about a horrific child abuse case. The victim's stepfather went to prison, and literally didn't last a week. When the other cons got wind of what he'd done, he was beaten to death.
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Old 08-19-2011, 08:15 PM
Win Place Show Win Place Show is offline
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One, because many of the other prisoners were abused themselves, and two, because harming a child isn't an act of courage (like, say, killing a cop would be). A book I've read that was written by a former warden said basically the same thing, only in a different way.

Second, another book I read was about a horrific child abuse case. The victim's stepfather went to prison, and literally didn't last a week. When the other cons got wind of what he'd done, he was beaten to death.
Glad that this thread was started, because I've always wondered about this as well. It's almost like the "honor" among hardcore prisoners is - "kill a 4-year-old? you won't last a week in here", but "kill the guy working the 7-11 to make a better life for his wife and 4-year-old? well hey, here's a carton of cigarettes for you, on the house".
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Old 08-19-2011, 09:00 PM
anson2995 anson2995 is offline
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Where are you getting this information? I worked in the NY prison system. Chapman and Berkowitz are in segregation units. So was Shawcross when he was alive. I've also read that Manson is in a segregation unit in California.
I'm a reporter... I've been to Attica, Groveland, etc. Have not interviewed those people I named but have interviewed others.

My point was that these segregation units have them mixing with other prisoners during the day. If you read the parole reports, you'll see that both Chapman and Berkowitz have jobs in the prison that bring them into regular contact with other inmates. I was attempting to draw a contrast between the federal SuperMax prisoners who *never* have interaction with other prisoners.

Manson was nearly killed a few years ago when another inmate set him on fire. Berkowitz was stabbed when he was at Attica.

FWIW, it's my understanding that Shawcross was not in the segregated unit for most of his time at Sullivan. He ended up there in 1999 after they found out he was selling autographs and artwork on ebay.
  #29  
Old 08-19-2011, 11:06 PM
Little Nemo Little Nemo is online now
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I use to run the unit in Attica that Chapman lives in (and the one that Berkowitz lived in although he wasn't there when I was). I'm very familiar with the way it works.

There's no unit which has complete isolation. That would be illegal. Inmates are not supposed to live in isolation and are allowed some contact with other inmates, even if it's just talking to guys in nearby cells.

Segregation means that we limit contact with other inmates, isolate segregation inmates from general population, and monitor any segregation inmate who's outside of his cell. In Chapman's case he was a porter - he was the guy who swept and mopped the galleries. This gave him plenty of opportunity to talk to the other inmates in the unit but it was hardly "regular contact". The inmates he was talking to were all locked in their cells and there was an officer standing a few feet away.
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Old 08-19-2011, 11:59 PM
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Son of Sam was attacked in prison and has some fairly serious scars from it. He's alive, though.
  #31  
Old 08-20-2011, 12:17 AM
Argent Towers Argent Towers is offline
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Glad that this thread was started, because I've always wondered about this as well. It's almost like the "honor" among hardcore prisoners is - "kill a 4-year-old? you won't last a week in here", but "kill the guy working the 7-11 to make a better life for his wife and 4-year-old? well hey, here's a carton of cigarettes for you, on the house".
Yeah, it's ridiculous, of course. There's no real honor among the savages that compose the majority of the prison population (at least the ones who aren't in there just for dealing drugs and not any violent crimes.) They just need someone to feel superior to. "I may be a murderer and a thief but at least I don't hurt children." Whatever. The lives of children are not inherently more valuable than the lives of adults and it's utter bullshit that people act like they are. These prisoners just like to brutalize people and they rationalize it by saying, "oh, he hurt children." A truly honorable individual would not want to brutalize anyone.
  #32  
Old 08-20-2011, 12:24 AM
Little Nemo Little Nemo is online now
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You have to realize that a lot of prisoners were themselves the victims of abuse when they were children. So they are going to be hostile to any child abusers.
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Old 08-20-2011, 12:39 AM
Argent Towers Argent Towers is offline
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I don't doubt that, but I also don't doubt that a lot of brutes will also pile on who were not abused in any way as children and simply want to pick on someone who they know won't have any defenders.
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Old 08-20-2011, 04:07 AM
Horatio Hellpop Horatio Hellpop is offline
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In the 70s, I read a prison memoir from probably the 50s (Can't remember the name or find it on Wikipedia or Yahoo). The author described in the first chapter the pecking order among prisoners: Lifers (Murderers and armed robbers) were on the top rung, con men/bunco artists were surprisingly high, sex offenders ("rapos") were near the bottom and people who had victimized children were at the very bottom.
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Old 08-20-2011, 04:53 AM
tellyworth tellyworth is offline
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Carl Williams, an infamous Australian drug dealer and murderer. He was killed in a high security prison, almost certainly as revenge or retaliation over rumors he was a police informant. The court case is still in progress though.
  #36  
Old 08-20-2011, 06:11 AM
Cicero Cicero is offline
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Carl Williams, an infamous Australian drug dealer and murderer. He was killed in a high security prison, almost certainly as revenge or retaliation over rumors he was a police informant. The court case is still in progress though.
That was more likely part of the ongoing gangland war.

I think this topic has been raised here before and one comment I recall was that the repercussions are generally more in the mind of the public than what actually happens.

As has been noted, defenseless people in jail could be easy targets. But grubs like Richard Speck seem to have survived pretty well.

Maybe Qagdop can give us a little more information (thanks as well to Little Nemo).
  #37  
Old 08-20-2011, 11:07 AM
Little Nemo Little Nemo is online now
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In the 70s, I read a prison memoir from probably the 50s (Can't remember the name or find it on Wikipedia or Yahoo). The author described in the first chapter the pecking order among prisoners: Lifers (Murderers and armed robbers) were on the top rung, con men/bunco artists were surprisingly high, sex offenders ("rapos") were near the bottom and people who had victimized children were at the very bottom.
Generally, the people who are at the "top" are prisoners who belong to some gang. Their status is based on being a Blood or a Latin King or a Mexican Mafioso or a Hell's Angel rather than whatever their individual crime was.
  #38  
Old 08-20-2011, 11:13 AM
Dewey Finn Dewey Finn is offline
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I vaguely remember reading that after a child murderer was convicted and sent to prison, the child's mother received an offer that the murderer could be "taken care of" (i.e., killed) in jail if she wished.
  #39  
Old 08-20-2011, 11:42 AM
isaiahrobinson isaiahrobinson is offline
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Another two notorious UK murderers have been attacked in prison recently as well - the murderer of Sarah Payne was stabbed in the eye last month and Peter Tobin was beaten by a number of inmates in 2007. It seems to be a pretty common thing, but I don't know whether it's because of their crimes or simply because they're infamous.
  #40  
Old 08-20-2011, 11:54 AM
UltraVires UltraVires is online now
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Originally Posted by Argent Towers View Post
Yeah, it's ridiculous, of course. There's no real honor among the savages that compose the majority of the prison population (at least the ones who aren't in there just for dealing drugs and not any violent crimes.) They just need someone to feel superior to. "I may be a murderer and a thief but at least I don't hurt children." Whatever. The lives of children are not inherently more valuable than the lives of adults and it's utter bullshit that people act like they are. These prisoners just like to brutalize people and they rationalize it by saying, "oh, he hurt children." A truly honorable individual would not want to brutalize anyone.
This is part of it, but there does seem to be a twisted sense of right and wrong among criminals. You plugged the clerk at 7-11? Well, you needed the money and he was standing the way. You killed your wife? Eh, bitch was probably fucking around and deserved it.

You raped a 4 year old? You are just a sick fuck. There is no reason to do that. You will die.
  #41  
Old 08-20-2011, 12:02 PM
UltraVires UltraVires is online now
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I missed the edit window: A big part of the "honor among thieves" is the implicit assumption that it is a dog eat dog world and that every adult is a part of it. There's no sympathy for the clerk at 7-11 because he is an adult and is a part of this harsh world. He lost, someone else won. That's how it works.

Children have not grown up and are not a part of this harsh world and they deserve protection. Serial killing done for no purpose is likewise viewed as a bad thing because you didn't have any reason for killing a random stranger. That's just violence for its own sake. Killing a person for $10, though, is just fine.
  #42  
Old 08-20-2011, 12:06 PM
Annie-Xmas Annie-Xmas is offline
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My favorite prison reveng story: Katie's Revenge

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Prison inmates convicted of killing children typically have a rough road to hoe in the penitentiary, the underworld of convict society not looking kindly on such criminals.

But the killer of 10-year-old Katie Collman now has a particular marking that stands out amongst his peers: a tattoo across his forehead that reads "Katie's Revenge."
  #43  
Old 08-20-2011, 01:02 PM
flodnak flodnak is offline
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Look up the comments section to any news story about a particularly horrific criminal (Levi Aron, Anders Behring Breivik), and you’ll find plenty of comments along the lines of “this creep won’t last a week in jail, the other inmates will take care of him reeeeeal good.”
In the specific case of Breivik, it seems like "everyone knows" the Hell's Angels and/or at least one other disreputable motorcycle gang has a price on his head. So any prisoner with a connection to the motorcycle gang in question has an incentive to kill him. Or so goes the story.

It was reported that the other inmates and Ila Prison were very unhappy to hear that he was among them, but settled down when they were told that at least to begin with he would be in solitary confinement.
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  #44  
Old 08-20-2011, 02:32 PM
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Several years ago, a local mother left her two children in her car, strapped into their car seats while she was in the building, doing drugs and partying. By the time she woke up and dragged herself back to the car, the children were dying. This was a huge case in our local area. Much hatred was expressed towards the mother, to say the least.

Before her conviction, because of several incidents at the county jail in her county, it was proposed that she be moved to the tiny county jail where I worked as the Sheriff's secretary. Somehow or another it fell to me to discuss this with the women inmates in the single cell our jail had for women. These women (all 6 were mothers) were petty thieves, drug users, check kiters, one had a robbery charge but they sure as HELL never left their babies to cook in no hot car! It took a couple of weeks to get them to calm down and get used to the idea. After that we got each one to promise that she would not hurt the mother and wouldn't let anyone else do it either. They kept the promise, too.
  #45  
Old 08-20-2011, 05:45 PM
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When I was in high school, a student at the same school, Debbie Moberg, went missing. After an investigation and the teenager's little sister testifying that she was in the car when her stepfather dumped the body, the stepfather was arrested, indicted, and held without bail.

There was a lot of speculation as to whether there would be enough evidence to convict him. Most of what they had was circumstantial - no body was ever recovered and the little sister's testimony was shaky. Low and behold, after three days custody in the general population of the county jail, the stepfather made a full confession to murdering his stepdaughter, because she threatened to tell police he was molesting her sister. Part of the deal was that he would be housed - for life - in one of the segregated populations, not the general population.

There was a picture of him in the local newspaper when he made the plea agreement. He had very clearly been worked over - multiple bruises, swollen eye, split lip, the works. Yet, I don't remember a word in the newspaper or on the news about how he got those injuries. Just that all the adults in my world just silently pursed their lips and nodded their heads.
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Old 08-20-2011, 05:55 PM
2square4u 2square4u is offline
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Originally Posted by flodnak View Post
In the specific case of Breivik, it seems like "everyone knows" the Hell's Angels and/or at least one other disreputable motorcycle gang has a price on his head. So any prisoner with a connection to the motorcycle gang in question has an incentive to kill him. Or so goes the story.
Close, but no cigar. According to rumors, it's the "B gang", notorious in Oslo since the early 90s who have put a price on Breivik's head. Cite

(Links in Norwegian, but AFAIK you should be able to read them)
  #47  
Old 08-20-2011, 09:33 PM
Little Nemo Little Nemo is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jtgain View Post
I missed the edit window: A big part of the "honor among thieves" is the implicit assumption that it is a dog eat dog world and that every adult is a part of it. There's no sympathy for the clerk at 7-11 because he is an adult and is a part of this harsh world. He lost, someone else won. That's how it works.

Children have not grown up and are not a part of this harsh world and they deserve protection. Serial killing done for no purpose is likewise viewed as a bad thing because you didn't have any reason for killing a random stranger. That's just violence for its own sake. Killing a person for $10, though, is just fine.
I think it's more a case of identification. A criminal doesn't recognize the 7-11 clerk he robs as an equal - if he did, it would make it difficult for him to victimize the clerk. Criminals tend to divide the world into predators and prey; they're the predators and the people they rob are the prey. As far as they're concerned, they have nothing in common with the victims of their crime.

But it was a different story when they were young. As I wrote above, many criminals were victimized when they were vulnerable as children. So they hate child abusers because they were victimized by a child abuser - it's their chance for payback.

If your "children aren't part of our world" theory was correct, then even those criminals who weren't themselves child abuse victims would attack abusers. But I'm pretty sure you'd find that the people who attack child abusers are almost all child abuse victims (although I'll admit I don't have the statistics available).
  #48  
Old 08-21-2011, 05:23 AM
Steken Steken is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flodnak View Post
In the specific case of Breivik, it seems like "everyone knows" the Hell's Angels and/or at least one other disreputable motorcycle gang has a price on his head. So any prisoner with a connection to the motorcycle gang in question has an incentive to kill him. Or so goes the story.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2square4u View Post
Close, but no cigar. According to rumors, it's the "B gang", notorious in Oslo since the early 90s who have put a price on Breivik's head. Cite
Interesting. I’ve been following that case fairly closely (even read a couple of hundred pages of his manifesto), but I hadn’t heard that aspect of it.

By the way, part of the reason I posted the OP in the first place was because I had yet another Norwegian example in the back of my mind: The Varg Vikernes case.

I remember all kinds of crazy rumors back then, all variations of the “prison revenge” theme. Either the foreign inmates would kill him, for his outspoken racism, or else other black metal people, as revenge for the Euronymous killing, or hell, who knows, if all else fails maybe even a Christian fundamentalist, as payback for the church burnings!

But when some years passed and nothing happened to the man, the rumors shifted to “oh, but of course they can’t get at him in jail, what with high security and all that – but just wait ‘til he gets out! Why, I myself know a guy who knows a guy who’s just waiting for a chance to…” and blah blah blah. But of course then he did get out, and still nothing happened – from what I know, he now lives a quiet life out on the family farm!

So from there I got to thinking if something similar might happen to Breivik, or Levi Aron, or Joran van der Sloot, or whoever's the "Monster Of The Week" at the moment.
  #49  
Old 08-21-2011, 05:42 AM
2square4u 2square4u is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steken View Post
Either the foreign inmates would kill him, for his outspoken racism, or else other black metal people, as revenge for the Euronymous killing, or hell, who knows, if all else fails maybe even a Christian fundamentalist, as payback for the church burnings!
(emphasis mine)

This seems just too far-fetched from my POV and is probably based on a false equivalence between American fundies and North European fundies. Basically, we don't have many - if any - of the gun-toting, abortion-doctor-killing fundie variety over here. I can't imagine a fundie from this side of the pond killing anybody, not even a church-burning satanist.
  #50  
Old 08-21-2011, 06:03 AM
Farmer Jane Farmer Jane is offline
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According to my dad (who served in Leavenworth), it mattered more who your 'allies' were and how well you could bribe the guards.
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