Moral Question: Phelps or Gold?

[Qin Shi Huangdi]

Suppose you were on a sinking boat and you and several others managed to escape in a lifeboat. As you sail out you spot two things: a chest full of gold and Fred Phelps (of Westboro fame) begging for help? There is spot on your boat for only one of those things so which do you choose?

I delibrately chose Fred Phelps because he while saying despicable things hasn't actually murdered or raped or whatnot so you cannot claim you'd pick the gold to protect yourself.

I would choose Phelps because despite everything he is still a human being and thus one of the God's children.

[pullin]

Gold, or no gold. I wouldn't lift a finger to rescue him.

I don't believe Asimov's 1st law of robotics applies to me. I can through inaction allow a human being to come to harm, if he is a sufficiently accomplished asshole*.



*OK, I made up the last part.

[Frylock]

I could do a whole lot of good with the gold.

[Der Trihs]

I probably let both sink. I won't get to keep the gold, and I wouldn't lift a finger to help Phelps. I'd probably also call out "You know, if you weren't such a bigoted scumball I'd save you!"

That said; in the real world I'd probably end up saving him because I wouldn't know for certain it was Phelps, and better safe than sorry.

[lavenderviolet]

I do have strong feelings about the value of life (I am a vegetarian who tries to avoid killing bugs, I am against abortion, etc.) but in this scenario I actually think I would choose the gold. I would consider it immoral to actively do something to kill Phelps, so I wouldn't push him out of the boat if he managed to get in it, but I wouldn't go out of my way to help him.

He has caused a lot of pain to many people. I would call it abuse, even. When someone goes around trying to actively harm other people, I don't feel any moral obligation to help that person.

[VunderBob]

I'd always save the human life. Hell, I'd pull Hitler out of the water. If it was Phred, I'd become gay on the spot just to remind him that one of the fags his god hates so much just pulled his sorry ass out of harm's way.

[silenus]

The best things in life are dirty
The worst thing in life is...
Wakin' up clean, without a bean
The best things in life are filthy dirty
Hunks of gold, gold, gold,
The best things in life are dirty
The worst thing in life is...
Being content, without a cent
The best things is life are filthy dirty
Hunks of gold, gold, gold, gold
Stinkin', rotten, chunks of
Grimy, slimy, lousy, lovely

Gold.

Fred can drown. I'd laugh, point, and take bets on whether the sea or the sharks got him first, then sleep the sleep of the Just (which is not quite as sound as the sleep of the Just-After).

[Qadgop the Mercotan]

I've been accused of loving gold.

I really don't, though. I just say that to get it into bed.

[Jaledin]

Gold, no question. Some people I don't care about -- they can go pound sand or piss up a rope.

[voltaire]

Originally Posted by Qin Shi Huangdi

because despite everything he is still a human being and thus one of the God's children.

Cite?

[Guinastasia]

Fred Phelps. Drowning's too good for the bastard.

[Oakminster]

I'm a little curious about how a chest full of gold is floating, so I'd prolly want to check that out.

Phelps? I'd toss that fucker an anchor.

[42fish]

Phelps. If we're out at sea so long we have to resort to cannibalism, the rest of us can do it with minimal guilt.

[NinetyWt]

I'd save Phelps. He'd be trapped in a lifeboat with me then, ha-HA!

[Namkcalb]

I'll choose Phelps without a moments hesistation.

I prefer to judge men on what they do not what they say.
Sure, he's said some very very very offensive things, but he's done very good things, he tried to prevent the war in Iraq by being a human shield, and he's done a lot of anti-racist work as well.

Besides, he's probably more useful to the gay cause alive than dead.

[The Second Stone]

Phelps. I find his message and methods deplorable, but he has actually done quite a bit to advance First Amendment rights.

How about that Penn judge who was getting kickbacks to send kids to private juvie prison? I'd probably rescue him to make sure he did more time.

Let's Godwin this. How about Hitler? I'd make him eat as much of the gold and drown him after beating his brains out with whatever debris is available. But suppose I find myself being punished in hell (cuz I ain't the Calvinist elect) and on a fiery lake in a small boat with Hitler. I'd ask him if he had any pictures of Eva Braun naked. If he said no, I'd say, "wanna buy some?"

[Sparky the Wonder Spirit]

When it comes right down to it, I don't think I could let a crazy old man die if I could do something about it.

[Little Nemo]

I'd rescue Phelps. Because evil as he is, I'm not going to let another human being die if I can save him.

Although when we got back to shore, I might tell people he kept making clumsy passes at me the whole time we were in the lifeboat.

[Inner Stickler]

I'm getting flashbacks to the human life or the last copy of shakespeare's complete works question.

I'd probably save phelps because I enjoy being sanctimonious.

[Namkcalb]

Originally Posted by The Second Stone

Let's Godwin this. How about Hitler?

I'd rescue him if he swore to paint my house.

SPOILER:

Not paint a picture of it mind you, I actually want him to paint the walls and interior of my house. It would be the only circumstance I'd enjoy seeing a supercenturian struggle and wheeze

[akennett]

Wait, I'm confused. Why would I want to drag Phelps into my boat after I took all that time to repeatedly hold him under just to the point he blacks out, pull him back up to recover, and shove him back down?

[Crown Prince of Irony]

I'd probably pull the boat to just beyond his reach - "are you in yet? Ok, I'll wait..."<vroooom>"hahahaha!"

"Ok, sorry I was just kidding - go ahead in climb aboa..."<vroooom>"hahahaha!"

I figure this could keep me entertained until we struck land.


On review, I see that I'm in a lifeboat, which wouldn't have a motor. Oh well, my answer still stands, because it's fun to think about.

[Toucanna]

Originally Posted by Qin Shi Huangdi

...you and several others managed to escape in a lifeboat.{snip}

I'd toss a queer overboard then pull Phelps and the gold into the boat.


Just kidding!!!!!!!


I think I'd take the gold out of the chest, toss the empty chest (assuming it's wood and it floats) to Phelps, then tell him, "last one out of the pool is a rotten egg!"

[Rala]

Originally Posted by Qin Shi Huangdi

I would choose Phelps because despite everything he is still a human being and thus one of the God's children.

Yeah. "Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you." ~Matthew 5:44. I'd quote that verse to him, and explain that the only reason he's alive is because of the moral and religious convictions of a bisexual woman.

[panache45]

Do you have any idea how heavy a chest of gold would be? Even on a saltwater lake on the moon, I wouldn't be able to lift it. Phelps, on the other hand, is full of shit, which floats . . . that is, unless someone keeps pushing his head back under.

Hey, according to Phelps, God hates me already. So it's not like I'm going to hell for letting the bastard drown.

[George Kaplin]

I'd save the gold. If I ever felt my conscience pricking at me in the wee small hours, I'd just donate some of it to an orphanage, thereby doing more good than Fred has ever done in his entire miserable life. Fuck him. You get back what you put in.

[Namkcalb]

Originally Posted by Toucanna

I think I'd take the gold out of the chest, toss the empty chest (assuming it's wood and it floats) to Phelps, then tell him, "last one out of the pool is a rotten egg!"

That's actually the smartest suggestion all thread

[Marconi N. Cheese]

I'd hold up a sign that says "God Hates Drowners" and then beat him over the fucking head with it. Then I'd probably save him.

[Sudden Kestrel]

I'd have to do the truly moral thing and let Phelps drown, thus keeping his poison from seeping into even more people. I'd then give the gold to an organization for wounded veterans.

ETA: Crown Prince of Irony's solution wins my vote for Most Appropriate, though.

[foolsguinea]

I picked the gold. Sure, it would be fun to save Fred Phelps, & then try to get in his head, or berate him, but he's an old man & will die in a few years anyway. The gold might be useful to some jeweler or electronics maker in the future. It won't corrode much at all, it's recoverable from the sea bed, but that could be ages. It seemed like it would be more useful than a crank.

Maybe not. Oh well, already picked.

[Strinka]

The gold. Phelps's god can save him.

[Teacake]

The gold. Phelps doesn't deserve my help, and I know that if he knew as much about me as I know about him (not a lot, just what most people know, before you ask!), he'd let me drown. Whatever "good works" he's allegedly done, I bet I can do better works with a whole chest full of gold.

[elbows]

Life trumps gold, for me. Don't even have to think about it. Am not especially happy about it, but there it is.

[Rushgeekgirl]

Phelps, if nothing else only to prove atheists can value human life just as much as a Christians who sees everyone as "God's children".

I sure do love some gold though.

[obfusciatrist]

Well, I don't believe he is one of god's children (as I believe in no god). I don't think a human life has any inherent external value.

But I'd save him over the gold for selfish reasons. If the situation were reversed, as evil as he likely would consider me I'd want him to pick me anyway, so I'll do my best to contribute to a social contract where that would be the more common choice.

Plus, since I live in a sitcom, since I saved his life it would essentially make him my servant through the well established rule of life-debts and I could use that for good.

[voltaire]

As I read through the thread, I get a feeling that the error rate on this hypothetical is probably very high. I'd bet a lot of people on either side of it really have no idea how they'd react when actually confronted with the choice in the real-world.

[The Tao's Revenge]

Phelps but I'd record a video on my phone of him swearing to god on pain of damnation he'll watch gay porn everyday, before I'd let him in the boat.

[Frodo]

I'll rescue Phelps, and then milk the resulting publicity for all its worth, may be I'll even get more money that way, anyway I woldnt rescue him to help him, I would rescue him because if I didnt I would feel guilty.

[Thudlow Boink]

Is one of the others on the lifeboat gay? Maybe I'd let him rescue Phelps; the irony would be so much more satisfying.

[boytyperanma]

Where is the option to use the gold to weigh Phelps down?

[Skald the Rhymer]

Originally Posted by Qin Shi Huangdi

Suppose you were on a sinking boat and you and several others managed to escape in a lifeboat. As you sail out you spot two things: a chest full of gold and Fred Phelps (of Westboro fame) begging for help? There is spot on your boat for only one of those things so which do you choose?

I delibrately chose Fred Phelps because he while saying despicable things hasn't actually murdered or raped or whatnot so you cannot claim you'd pick the gold to protect yourself.

I would choose Phelps because despite everything he is still a human being and thus one of the God's children.

I save Phelps because taking a chest of gold onto a lifeboat is stupid. As soon as he's in the boat, I tell him it was because he has such a purty mouth.

[Skald the Rhymer]

Originally Posted by voltaire

Cite?

Qin is making a philosophical statement, not a factual one. And I'll agree with him that saving Phelps is mandatory in my ethical system, though being nice to him is not.

[RedWood]

Fred says my wife is burning in Hell. Let him go there and find out.
Can I weight him down with the gold? If not, I'll split it with the lifeboat passengers.
Skald: I really like your response! It makes me wish the lifeboat was full of the Gay Men's Choir...

[Skald the Rhymer]

Originally Posted by boytyperanma

Where is the option to use the gold to weigh Phelps down?

Please leave the evil to the professionals, sir.

[Drain Bead]

I'd take the gold. Can you imagine being trapped on a lifeboat with that guy for days? Ugh.

[RedWood]

Originally Posted by Skald the Rhymer

Please leave the evil to the professionals, sir.

I will take that to mean "Madam" as well. Dang... :S

[Indygrrl]

I'd rescue Phelps, because I couldn't have that on my conscience. It really wouldn't be about him at all.

[voltaire]

Originally Posted by Skald the Rhymer

Qin is making a philosophical statement, not a factual one. And I'll agree with him that saving Phelps is mandatory in my ethical system, though being nice to him is not.

I wouldn't expect a Rhymer to be whooshed by simple sarcasm!

[Icarus]

First I'd throw Qin overboard for bothering me with childish philosophical questions when we're trying to save ourselves from a sinking boat.

Then I'd grab the gold.

Then I'd grab Phred.

Then I'd kill him.

[DigitalC]

I'm surprised at how many people think the world is better with Phelps in it. I wouldn't go as far as murder him myself, but i would pick a chest full of nothing over saving him.