Mobile phones: 3G vs 4G?

[OpalCat]

Tangentially inspired (more like reminded--I've meant to ask this a number of times) by a recent other thread, I wanted to ask about 3G vs 4G mobile networks. I tried reading the Wikipedia pages about them but they kind of went over my head as they expected me to already know a lot of stuff that I don't, in fact, know.

My questions are: What are the defining parameters of "3G"? Is it a certain data rate? What is the coverage (in the US) of 3G? If I'm in the boonies but still have bars on my phone, is it still 3G or is it something else? If something else, what is that something else called?

More importantly, what is 4G and in what ways is it better than 3G? I heard, but don't remember where and it may well have been a FOAF story and originated as gossip--I have no idea--but I heard that very little of the US actually HAS 4G available, so having a phone that supports it isn't very useful unless you live in a few select places. Is that true? What are the defining parameters of "4G" (if there is such a thing--as I said I don't know much and the question may be ignorantly worded).

How much better is 4G than 3G? I see it hyped as a way to cell phones and phone plans, but nobody I've asked in the real world has actually known what it all means. Are the phone companies hoping consumer ignorance will lead to more sales because "higher number=means better=buy" mentality?

I am sure this has been discussed on the board before, but the vB software won't let you search for things as short as "3G" and "4G" so I was kind of at a loss there.

I bought a Motorola Droid 3 (2-for-1 at a great price; my husband got one too) when my Droid started to fail. It is a 3G phone and a few people told me I should have bought a different--4G--phone or waited until the Droid had one. I bought the Droid 3 anyway and have been happy with it. Am I going to regret that?

Sorry for asking so many questions in one thread, but the whole thing is complicated and I am very unknowledgeable about it. To make it worse, most of my friends and family consider me the "techie one" so they ask ME about all this and I can't help them. So just knowing this stuff will help me when I'm regularly asked to be the expert on answering these kinds of questions myself.

[Sunspace]

Originally Posted by OpalCat

Are the phone companies hoping consumer ignorance will lead to more sales because "higher number=means better=buy" mentality?

Yes.

"3G" means "third-generation digital cellular". it offered much faster data speeds than the second-generation cellular, and made data connections separate from phone call connections. There are still two broad technology camps within 3G descending from the CDMA versus GSM battles of earlier generations, plus a few smaller standards used in specific locations. This is why both the GSM and CDMA versions of the iPhone 4 can say simply "3G" on their screens, even though they are using different communication standards.

"4G" was supposed to mean "fourth-generation digital cellular". There is supposed to be a common technology standard used by everyone, named "LTE". However, it has become a vague marketing term that basically means "faster than the other guys". There was supposed to me a hard spec for it, I think it was a download speed of 100 megabits per second, but so many companies started to advertise their fast 3G services as "4G" that the ITU or whoever gave in and let companies call anything reasonably fast "4G".

[jasg]

I just know a little...

- 4G is faster for data, but probably at a premium cost.
- 4G is in its early stages both in terms of coverage and chips to support it.
- Battery life for a 4G phone is less than for a similar 3G phone (chip difference, mostly)
- IMHO, 4G is a great marking term at this point and 'early adoptors' will go for it big time.

As coverage grows and chips mature, I'm sure we'll see 4G phones that are as robust battery-wise as 3G ones.

[OpalCat]

How big is current 4G coverage? I was led to believe it was miniscule, but I have no cite, just random people's comments.

[Sunspace]

It's pretty small. They opened LTE in Toronto recently, and the coverage area is much smaller than the metropolitan area.

[bouv]

Originally Posted by OpalCat

How big is current 4G coverage? I was led to believe it was miniscule, but I have no cite, just random people's comments.

Since you got the Droid 3, you must have Verizon. Here is their 4G coverage map:
http://network4g.verizonwireless.com...true#/coverage

If you double click in the Boston area to zoom in, you see they do have 4 coverage there, but they make their dots so damn big it would appear at first glance that half of of MA, CT, and nearly all of RI have 4G when this is not the case.

Odds are, the 4G only covers the Boston Metro area, so there's a good chance you're exact address in 'Boson Suburbia' doesn't get 4G, so you were smart in just sticking with a 3G phone and not paying the extra (does VZW charge extra for 4G? I don't actually know. But the phones themselves certainly cost more.)

Oh, I see it actually has a place you can enter your exact address to check coverage.

[OpalCat]

Thanks for that map. It does indeed look like extremely limited coverage.

[sevenwood]

Originally Posted by bouv

Since you got the Droid 3, you must have Verizon. Here is their 4G coverage map:

I prefer this one, although you have to manipulate it a bit to see Verizon's 4G coverage. The good news, though, is that it shows it as actual coverage areas rather than a bunch of dots.

Bring up that link, then click on the "4G Data Coverage" button, then (and it's really stupid that you have to do this, but the 4G coverage won't show up unless you do) move the slide bar on the left from "Nation" to a smaller area and then move it back to "Nation". Unlike the other link, on this map the coverage areas are shown as they really exist rather than generic dots.

Verizon's 4G coverage will be shown in dark red, with its 3G-only coverage in lighter red. You can zoom down to your area to see if you're covered.

Note that Verizon claims that is has 4G coverage for more than 50 percent of the US population, and I'm sure they're right - but they accomplished that by concentrating on larger cities and (for now) completely ignoring suburban and rural areas. In my case (I live in the western suburbs of Philadelphia) my home has 4G coverage (big deal, I can also use my home WIFI there) but most of the golf courses I play along the Route 422 corridor don't. And where I really need 4G data coverage is while playing golf, where my GPS app will show me a Google-maps-generated overhead view of the hole I'm on if I press it's "zoom" button. AAARRGGHH!!!!!

- - - -

(Later) Oh, damn. I just noticed that you can also get the map to display 4G coverage simply by clicking on the "4G" button and then clicking on the "refresh map" button. Boy, are I dumb...

[OpalCat]

So would you say that the level of hype for 4G phones is a little scammy given the limited coverage? Or not so much because of the higher density of population in big cities, which do have the coverage? But surely even people in cities travel...

[Absolute]

Originally Posted by OpalCat

So would you say that the level of hype for 4G phones is a little scammy given the limited coverage? Or not so much because of the higher density of population in big cities, which do have the coverage? But surely even people in cities travel...

I wouldn't call it scammy, at least not any moreso than the myriad other useless things phones get marketed for. It's not like a 4G phone won't work when you're outside of the coverage area, it'll just fall back to 3G. And 4G coverage areas will continue to expand over the course of a typical two-year contract.

I do think 4G is kind of ridiculous at this point, though. I never find myself thinking that my Verizon iPhone's 3G service is slow. Websites load about as fast as they do on a WiFi network. There may be some people whose "digital lifestyle" revolves around downloading HD movies to their phone or some bullshit like that, but for me, 3G is fast enough that I rarely find myself waiting for something to load. And I'm an impatient person.

[Si Amigo]

I like it not for surfing the web from my phone, but for it's use as a WiFi hotspot. I use the 4G service to hookup my home PC to the network at a really decent speed (~45 Mips) AND have the ability to surf the web from my phone. Was able to get rid of my hardwired internet connection at home and actually saved money because I now surf less at home since I have decent access everywhere.

[Absolute]

Originally Posted by Si Amigo

I like it not for surfing the web from my phone, but for it's use as a WiFi hotspot. I use the 4G service to hookup my home PC to the network at a really decent speed (~45 Mips) AND have the ability to surf the web from my phone. Was able to get rid of my hardwired internet connection at home and actually saved money because I now surf less at home since I have decent access everywhere.

Do 4G plans come with unlimited data?

[Cell Guy]

Originally Posted by OpalCat

My questions are: What are the defining parameters of "3G"? Is it a certain data rate?

The minimum peak data rate for 3G service is 200 kbit/s. It is not uncommon to get speeds exceeding this rate.

What is the coverage (in the US) of 3G? If I'm in the boonies but still have bars on my phone, is it still 3G or is it something else? If something else, what is that something else?

The last figure I heard is that 95-99% of the population of the U.S. has access to 3G data coverage. Non-3G coverage areas fall under EDGE (for GSM networks--think AT&T or T-mobile) and 1XRTT for CDMA networks (think Verizon).

More importantly, what is 4G and in what ways is it better than 3G? I heard, but don't remember where and it may well have been a FOAF story and originated as gossip--I have no idea--but I heard that very little of the US actually HAS 4G available, so having a phone that supports it isn't very useful unless you live in a few select places. Is that true? What are the defining parameters of "4G" (if there is such a thing--as I said I don't know much and the question may be ignorantly worded).

The meaning of 4G has been corrupted in an attempt by service providers to appear competitive. Initially 4G, as defined by the International Telecommunications Union (ITU-R), called for data transfer rates of 1 Gbit/s. When Verizon turned on their 4G LTE (Long Term Evolution) network, AT&T and T-mobile petitioned the ITU-R to change the standard to allow slower data transfer rates that those companies could then advertise as "4G." Don't be fooled, when T-mobile and AT&T advertise "4G" they are actually talking about a 3G technology (although AT&T has recently launched their own LTE network and market it as 4G LTE).

4G LTE allows for faster data rates than 3G. It also uses lower frequencies than 3G, somewhere between 700-750 Mhz depending on the provider. This lower frequency allows for greater penetration in buildings which should improve reception. Please note that 4G is a strictly data related standard. At this time there is no affect on voice communications with 4G.

How much better is 4G than 3G?

At this time it's only better if you need the faster data transmission rate.

I see it hyped as a way to cell phones and phone plans, but nobody I've asked in the real world has actually known what it all means. Are the phone companies hoping consumer ignorance will lead to more sales because "higher number=means better=buy"

Yes.

I bought a Motorola Droid 3 (2-for-1 at a great price; my husband got one too) when my Droid started to fail. It is a 3G phone and a few people told me I should have bought a different--4G--phone or waited until the Droid had one. I bought the Droid 3 anyway and have been happy with it. Am I going to regret that?

No.

[GameHat]

Just popping in to post my experiences,

I waited (while having a crappy flip-phone) for over a year just because I was waiting for a Droid Bionic (4g, and in the NW Chicago suburbs there is decent 4G coverage.) It finally came out this fall, and I got one. I'm mostly happy with it, but here come the caveats:

I actually signed up for Verizon's unlimited data plan just before they discontinued it, to make sure I got grandfathered in. I signed up for it with my shit flip phone, and the Verizon reps were all like, "*chuckle* you need unlimited data on that ancient phone?" At the time I thought unlimited data would be absolutely necessary. And I did get grandfathered in, I'm on the Verizon unlimited data plan for the same monthly cost as I think 2gb/month goes these days.

Fast forward to now, when I actually have a smartphone, and actually use data. It turns out I don't really need unlimited data; in these last few months I've only gone a bit above 1gb/month.

The big thing that I didn't really realize is that 90% of the time I'm using my smart-phone, there are available wi-fi networks. And wi-fi data usage doesn't count against your plan data usage.

That said - 4g really is a step-change improvement over 3g. I've found it to be about the equivalent of going from dial-up to lower-end broadband (256K DSL, maybe.)

At work, in the labs, where I can't get wifi because my IT department won't let us connect with unsecured personal devices, 4G lets me stream all sorts of good media. YouTube and Netflix at HD (for the phone, at least.) And browsing and downloads are way faster than anyone else around that's still on 3G.

4G is a legit step up from 3G. But in my usage, it's probably not necessary - at home, or in a hotel, or at the coffee shop - well, wifi is usually available and is faster than either 4G or 3G, plus it doesn't cost me data. In those very rare times (like I said, maybe 10% of my usage) where I don't have wifi, 4G is noticeably better but I could probably get by without it.

[Si Amigo]

Originally Posted by Absolute

Do 4G plans come with unlimited data?

Not with Verizon, they limit me to 5Gb/month and that has been plenty for me; someone with a family may find otherwise. I hear that Sprint is offering unlimited 4G but they play tricks with how they do do it; something along the lines knocking you down to 3G speeds if you exceed a certain amount of data in a busy time period.

[Tom Tildrum]

How do I find out how much data I'm using in a given month (with my Verizon Droid)?

[Si Amigo]

Originally Posted by Tom Tildrum

How do I find out how much data I'm using in a given month (with my Verizon Droid)?

With the app called "My Verizon" located in the Google Marketplace.

[gazpacho]

Originally Posted by Si Amigo

With the app called "My Verizon" located in the Google Marketplace.

You can also see it from the verizon website. Calling #DATA from you phone will get a free text sent to you with your data usage.