Although this topic has been debated almost endlessly on the SDMB for the past, oh 8 years or so, seems to me that just because your paranoid it doesn’t mean they aren’t out to get you.
Upfront, I’ll state my views on the matter: and they are simply that it is madness. To me, it matters little whether Iran’s going nuclear or not – but I’ll also add that seeing the way the US has gone bonkers on the region, it’d be irresponsible for their leaders not to do so. From a defensive strategy, if there’s one thing we’ve learned from the whole “Triangle of Evil” fiasco is that a nation not in good standing with the US of A – and possibly Israel – would do well for itself to find/develop the best possible deterrent. Which are obviously nukes at this point in time. Saved NK for one.
Secondly why do I think this topic is more relevant today than at any other time in the past? Because I read the news that’s why. And Google-vomit is getting shrieker by the day.
So, do we ignore all signals so far? Or do we start having a coherent response to any/all insinuations? As in “hell no, not again.”
Then again, if you are all for war, say so and why. That’s the debate right there.
I’d simply like to point out that you are a mouth-breathing simpleton with a black and white view of international politics that makes The Jetsons look like cutting edge scifi.
Also, have you figured out yet why you’re prone to making lists of everybody in the US government whose names sound Jewish to you and accusing them all of potential treachery, and then removing the names of those whose politics haven’t changed but who you learn aren’t Jewish?
I don’t know how I really feel about this whole matter other than scared at the seeming inevitability this particular issue has gained recently. I really wish and hope that we take a break from wars for a good long while.
If Israel wants to start shit with Iran, let them. We should sit this one out.
Without adding the “we” I feel pretty much the same way as you; I do know it is a very scary situation. But I also realize that Israel is quite unlikely to do anything w/out the US’s Government backing.
Hard to imagine the ensuing global clusterfuck. As if it isn’t bad enough already.
Of course, Red’s knowledge of geopolitics in the region is woefully deficient. Even a direct strike on Iranian facilities by Israeli forces won’t necessarily equal war. Precedent on this matter is quite clear. Even leaving that aside, the notion that Iran can best protect itself not by disarming and ceasing to support Hamas, Hezbollah et al but by continuing to convince the world that it’s got a covert nuclear weapons program? By actually going full steam ahead with a nuclear weapons program? It’s an absurdity. Absent its strong support for international terrorism ranging from Al Queada to Hezbollah, its desire to subvert and dominate neighboring regimes (see Lebanon) and its obvious pattern of obstruction when it comes to the IAEA which has certified that some of Iran’s activities are only consistent with weaponization and not dual-use technology… well, The West [sup]tm[/sup] in general and Israel in specific no longer have any problem with Iran.
If they really wanted to avoid a potential attack by Israel, in addition to stopping their support of Hamas and Hezbollah they could always actually make peace. There’s a reason that Israel hasn’t gone to war with Jordan or Egypt lately.
This thread is now in Great Debates, so insults are not allowed, and everyone is reminded to stay well inside the lines regarding taunting and other obnoxiousness.
No, it’s the obvious truth; nothing gets nations to back off better than having nuclear weapons.
More nonsense. All they need to do is look to Iraq to see that cooperation gains you nothing but conquest and death. If Saddam had owned some nukes, he and a great many other Iraqis would still be alive (assuming he hadn’t died of old age by now).
They tried making peace with America and got slapped with the “Axis of Evil” label in return. The West doesn’t want peace with them. And yes that was America and not Israel; but it’s America that actually matters here. Israel isn’t a real threat to them, America is. Israel could sink into the ocean and it would still make sense for the Iranians to want nuclear weapons. If it was America that suddenly vanished on the other hand I could see them deciding that nukes aren’t worth it.
So Israel can threaten Iran or not all it likes; what they do isn’t really important as to whether or not the Iranians should go for nukes. Israel is a sideshow.
Assuming for the sake of argument that it is rational for Iran to attempt to develop nuclear weapons, it does not necessarily follow that it is “madness” for Israel to try to prevent it.
The fact is that Iran has been extremely anti-Israel since the late 70s when the Shah went out. When someone says that they want to annihilate you, it’s prudent to take them seriously.
I don’t think Israel is a sideshow, they are a core issue WRT the stability of the region, or lack thereof. Iran clearly hates their existence. Israel has nukes and a kick ass military that could certainly do Iran some damage with a pre-emptive strike if they so chose.
What happens after that (if it were to occur) is anyone’s guess whether or not there would be outright war or if Iran would just be forced to “deal with it” much like Iraq had to do when Israel took out their Osirak reactor in the early 1980’s.
I hope that, if Israel does strike Iran, the US tells them to fuck off and that they’re on their own. I support them generally, but we shouldn’t be fighting their wars for them.
But a pointless attack that will fail to stop the nuclear program, will strengthen the Iranian government, underline why they need nukes, and feed their demonization of Israel? That is if not “mad”, pretty stupid.