Would you read an SO's email without their consent?

[Mr. Excellent]

First, a bit of setup: I'm on OKCupid, an online dating site. One of the features on this site is a set of "match questions" with multiple-choice answers. Your answers to these questions are fed into OKCupid's database, which matches your answers against those of other users, and thus generates a "match" score. If you post an answer as "public", other users can also see your answer to that specific question.

With me so far? Splendid.

Anyway, there's one thing I seen a lot on this site that really blows my mind: Many, many women answer "Only if I suspected something" to this question:

Would you--for any reason--read your mate's email or pose as him/her online, without his/her knowledge and permission?

To me, this is absolutely shocking - invading a mate's privacy in this way seems a profound invasion of privacy at best, and potentially criminal at worst. If you'd asked me, I'd have guessed that only a very tiny a dysfunctional subset of users would give any answer to this question other than "absolutely not!"

And yet, that seems not to be the case - a conditional "yes" seems to be a popular answer among 25-35-year-old college-educated women.

So, what does the Dope think is going on here? Is it just that OKCupid users are more messed-up than I'd have guessed, or is this behavior less unacceptable than I'd thought?

[DianaG]

I'm not the demographic in question, but the answer for me is absolutely not, if for no other reason than I'd consider it a dealbreaker if someone did it to me.

[Manda JO]

I wouldn't snoop, but I wouldn't hesitate if there was a legitimate reason--if, for example, I knew there was an email in his box that had information I needed and he was asleep or something, I would go look. I'd tell him later just because I wouldn't want to look like I was snooping.

[Mr. Excellent]

Originally Posted by Manda JO

I wouldn't snoop, but I wouldn't hesitate if there was a legitimate reason--if, for example, I knew there was an email in his box that had information I needed and he was asleep or something, I would go look. I'd tell him later just because I wouldn't want to look like I was snooping.

Sure, this sounds reasonable. But I don't think that's what the question is getting at - it refers to doing this without the other person's knowledge or permission.

[Manda JO]

Originally Posted by Mr. Excellent

Sure, this sounds reasonable. But I don't think that's what the question is getting at - it refers to doing this without the other person's knowledge or permission.

In my example, I don't ask for permission, except in the general sense that I know he won't mind. It doesn't happen often, though, Maybe once every few years?

[even sven]

It would be completely unacceptable to me. It signal a relationship that is already fundamentally broken. If you don't have trust, you don't have a viable relationship.

[Lamia]

Like a lot of OKCupid question, I feel this one is badly written to the point that it's difficult to interpret what an answer means. The question says "any reason", which includes everything from "I'm feeling curious" to "I'm being held at gunpoint and ordered to read my SO's email". I mean, I can certainly imagine scenarios where reading someone else's email without their permission would be the lesser of two evils, they just aren't very plausible.

It's also not clear to me from the question whether the situation is one where I'd have to guess my SO's password to get into the email account, or whether I innocently went to use my computer after my SO has been over and discover that my SO forgot to log out of Gmail. I can't see doing the former except in a very extreme, far-fetched scenario where I believed that people were in serious danger and that information included in my SO's email would help. But if it were a "Wait a sec, this isn't my Gmail" situation, I don't think I'd be able to restrain myself from at least taking a glance at the subject headings.

[Mr. Accident]

I certainly wouldn't, and I'd be pissed if my girlfriend did it. Just like I won't read her texts or instant messages without her permission, and vice versa.

[Rachellelogram]

27 year old female reporting. I wouldn't, and I'd be pissed if he did that to me.

[Der Trihs]

Under most circumstances no. Now, if she had vanished and I was looking for clues for what happened, or I happened to notice an email with a title like re: Plan to Kill Der Trihs then that would be a different matter. Basically, any situation extreme enough that the normal social rules are suspended.

[Thudlow Boink]

Originally Posted by even sven

It signal a relationship that is already fundamentally broken. If you don't have trust, you don't have a viable relationship.

Well yeah, but "for any reason" includes cases where trust has been broken, or there is something wrong with the relationship.

While I personally, don't think I'd read an SO's email without her consent under any circumstances, I think "Only if I suspected something" is a reasonable response, if it comes from a reasonable, non-paranoid person who would only suspect something if they had a good reason to. I can think of plenty of scenarios where it might turn out be in the SO's best interest to snoop.

[Waxwinged]

Ehh.. asked this question of the SO, and he agreed with me-- both of us would snoop, if given a substantial reason to. What's to hide?

[Shagnasty]

My ex-wife did it to me all the time. I wasn't doing anything especially wrong by any standard. Her personal triumph of a 'big bust' was finding something that I wrote here that she didn't agree with. She found references to a site with topless pics once and that was enough to get locked out of the house and then having to sleep on the couch for a month after I got back in. Yeah, I am glad it is over and it is something I will have zero tolerance for in the future.

Reading anyone's e-mail or looking at their online accounts without their consent, even your spouses, is technically very illegal. I wish that they would throw a few of them in prison for it to get the word out.

I never did that to her BTW even though I could have easily. I do not believe in it and think it is reprehensible behavior. Figure stuff out a different way if you are that worried about something.

[Lasciel]

Technically can't happen with me and my husband - we have each memorized each others passwords and use each other's email accounts fairly regularly.

We actually have a notarized paper in our safe-deposit box stating that we each grant full access to each other's web-presence. Don't know if it's legally binding, but it makes us feel better to have it.

I don't have anything to hide, neither does he. It makes it easier for us if we know the account accesses so if either of us is occupied (usually driving) we can send an email or email-chat to someone from the appropriate account, or check on things that need dealing with (invitations or scheduling events).

We usually tell our friends that we're taking dictation for each other, but sometimes not. It isn't like it's hard for them to tell: I can write and spell, and he can't (dyslexic).


Now, if he got a different email account - unless he told me about it, I wouldn't know about it to snoop into, because I don't go messing around his stuff, and I think googling-facebooking-internet-searching people you know is borderline stalkerish.

He could have umpteen different accounts for weird shit that I don't know, but I don't know, and everything's fine with our relationship as far as I can tell. So for that, the answer would be "No, because I would be clueless that he had an account to snoop in, nor do I particularly think that snooping in an email account would solve any problems that we were potentially having."

I do think it's funny that so many couples keep totally separate emails and banking and suchlike - our actual finances are separated, but each of us is on all the accounts. For me it would be hard to keep that level of privacy from someone I'm sharing my life with.

[Chefguy]

We don't have separate email addresses, so we both see everything. But neither of us has anything to hide from the other and never have.

[grateful mcgee]

No way. The second I felt the need to do that, I would end the relationship.

[madmonk28]

Absolutely not, if I pick up my wife's computer and she is still logged on the Gmail, I make a potnt of handing it back to her and not to even look at the subject lines. It is not that either of us are hiding anything, it is that we are both allowed to have private thoughts.

[lavenderviolet]

Originally Posted by Mr. Excellent

To me, this is absolutely shocking - invading a mate's privacy in this way seems a profound invasion of privacy at best, and potentially criminal at worst. If you'd asked me, I'd have guessed that only a very tiny a dysfunctional subset of users would give any answer to this question other than "absolutely not!"

Really? You're surprised that if someone thinks their mate is cheating on them that they would do whatever it takes to prove it? Some people will take it even further and hire private investigators and such, man.

It's easy to say "Oh I would never" if you're in a healthy relationship where you feel secure you can trust your SO, but I do think that most people would snoop if they were actually in a situation where they had reason to think the spouse was up to no good. I would give those who answered the question that way credit for at least being honest about what they would do instead of lying themselves.

[bengangmo]

Yeah,

If I truely believed she was cheating on me I wouldn't hesitate long before checking her email.

[madmonk28]

I guess to me, if I'm at the point where I need to secretly read her email, then the relationship is already over.

[Maggie the Ocelot]

Sure. I do it all the time - just because I'm interested in what he's up to, and what conversations he's having with other people. He doesn't care, he has nothing to hide. Now if he started getting all tetchy about me Not Getting In His Business, I would worry that he is up to something...

[madmonk28]

But, doesn't your SO deserve some private space? If my wife wanted to blow off steam to her brother or mother that I'm bieng a douche, leaving the toilet seat up, or playing too much Skyrim (as if that's possible), shouldn't she be able to do so without worrying that I'm going to read it?

[Maggie the Ocelot]

*shrug* He's not the kind of person that would do that, let alone do it in a written medium. And I wouldn't be offended to find out that he had one so - instead, I'd be worried that I had done something to anger him that much without knowing about it, and would seek to change my ways immediately.

[Cinnamon Imp]

Originally Posted by even sven

It would be completely unacceptable to me. It signal a relationship that is already fundamentally broken. If you don't have trust, you don't have a viable relationship.

I did, and yes, the relationship was already broken. I can't swear I wouldn't do it in a healthy relationship though. I'm nosey

[Nava]

I would not read my SO's mail without permission, but I also wouldn't want to have an SO who wouldn't give me said permission and trust my discretion. What the heck is he having mail on that I am not allowed to know about it? I wouldn't go cheking his work email under normal circumstances or expect him to be checking mine, but in abnormal ones (such as the recipient being in the hospital unexpectedly) I would.




One of the issues with living a sort of nomadic life is that I can't get my damned relatives to read my damned mail and let me know when something I need to respond to comes up. Bills don't need a response (all of mine get paid automatically); doctor appointments do.

[BigT]

Around here, it's pretty typical to give your SO your password. I don't think privacy is considered a big deal in relationships.

And I am curious: what are you guys thinking of that would be private? About the only understandable thing I can think of is trying to get your SO a present. And I can think of a bunch of bad situations, like carrying on an affair, having told lies about who you are, spending money that you've agreed you wouldn't spend, etc. But surely you have more legitimate things in mind.

[Cinnamon Imp]

I'm guessing even in healthy relationships, you might vent off steam to your friends by email about how he didn't take out the bin again, or left the toilet seat up again, or how much you hate his mother. Presumably that's the kind of thing, BigT?

[madmonk28]

That's the great thing about privacy, you don't have to define it prior to excercising it. I'm pretty sure my wife has my password and I think I have hers somewhere (if not, either of us could probably make a good guess). It wouldn't be out of the norm for me to say that she could log in to my gmail and check something if I was away from my computer, but needed soem piece of information.

But even then, neither of us would just browse through each other's mail. For one of us to snoop would be a serious breach, maybe not on the same scale of infidelity, but up there in the top 5 or so. It really wouldn't occur to me to snoop, if there's something she wants me to know, she'd tell me and if she wants to write Twilight-Muppet slash fic and send it out to publishers without my knowledge, I respect that. ETA: respect might be too strong a term for my hypothetical scenario, but you know what I mean.

[Cinnamon Imp]

Originally Posted by madmonk28

Twilight-Muppet slash fic

(off-topic)Please tell me this is not a real thing in the real world?!(/off-topic)

[madmonk28]

You just know it is and that they have conventions.

[Cinnamon Imp]

Originally Posted by madmonk28

You just know it is and that they have conventions.

I don't know who to hate more, you for suggesting it exists, or me for googling it...

(link SFW, unless your bosses have taste and no sense of humour!)

[Nava]

Originally Posted by madmonk28

write Twilight-Muppet slash fic...

Would that involve Count von Count teaching sparkly vampires how to count sparkles?

[Athena]

Originally Posted by Nava

I would not read my SO's mail without permission, but I also wouldn't want to have an SO who wouldn't give me said permission and trust my discretion. What the heck is he having mail on that I am not allowed to know about it? I wouldn't go cheking his work email under normal circumstances or expect him to be checking mine, but in abnormal ones (such as the recipient being in the hospital unexpectedly) I would.

This.

I would think it bad to read my SO's email without his permission. But I'd also have a LOT of questions if he told me that he absolutely didn't want me reading his email. We've been together for 15 years; we don't have secrets from each other, and to say "don't read my email!" without a good reason (like, Christmas or Birthday coming up) would definitely raise some flags.

On the the other hand, I wouldn't like it if he made a point to ALWAYS read my email, either. That would be creepy in a different way.

Like a lot of things in marriage, things aren't always cut and dry. The closest to a real answer on this one for me is "You always have implicit permission to read each other's email, unless there's a solid reason why you shouldn't. However, you shouldn't make it a habit to read each other's email."

[olivesmarch4th]

Originally Posted by madmonk28

I guess to me, if I'm at the point where I need to secretly read her email, then the relationship is already over.

This. I value my privacy very highly and I would never apply different standards to my partner. If for some reason trust is broken, snooping around behind the other person's back is not the way to restore the relationship.

Mark me down as a very emphatic no. (female, 29)

[madmonk28]

Yeah, I find the idea that only people with something to hide need privacy to be creepy. I'm lucky (in many ways) that my wife and I found each other and this thread is another reason.

[DianaG]

Originally Posted by BigT

And I am curious: what are you guys thinking of that would be private? About the only understandable thing I can think of is trying to get your SO a present. And I can think of a bunch of bad situations, like carrying on an affair, having told lies about who you are, spending money that you've agreed you wouldn't spend, etc. But surely you have more legitimate things in mind.

Every thought that I don't voluntarily share is private. A conversation with someone else doesn't have to be somehow nefarious to still be none of my SO's business. It's not as though there's no relationship middle ground between jealously-guarded secrecy and mind-meld.

[Renee]

Originally Posted by Athena

This.

I would think it bad to read my SO's email without his permission. But I'd also have a LOT of questions if he told me that he absolutely didn't want me reading his email. We've been together for 15 years; we don't have secrets from each other, and to say "don't read my email!" without a good reason (like, Christmas or Birthday coming up) would definitely raise some flags.

On the the other hand, I wouldn't like it if he made a point to ALWAYS read my email, either. That would be creepy in a different way.

Like a lot of things in marriage, things aren't always cut and dry. The closest to a real answer on this one for me is "You always have implicit permission to read each other's email, unless there's a solid reason why you shouldn't. However, you shouldn't make it a habit to read each other's email."

This is our situation, too. We neither have nor want a lot of privacy from each other, and I don't think I'd like being in a relationship where that felt necessary.

I also prefer not to bitch about my husband to other people. Mostly this is because there is very, very little to bitch about, but I also think it's just rude. Bad-mouthing your spouse behind their back is a more egregious violation of trust than reading their e-mail, imho, and also puts the person you're bitching too in an awkward position. This isn't to say that couples who value their privacy is wrong, it's just a different value system.


I'm not sure how I would answer that question, though. If I was with someone who absolutely did not want me to read their e-mail under any circumstances, I guess I wouldn't, but I also probably wouldn't be in that position in the first place.

[pyromyte]

I was once in the "absolutely not" camp. I was (what I now consider) naive and trusted my wife 100% for 14 years.

I eventually went against my "absolutely not" and snooped my wife's email account. I had my reasons, and I confirmed my fears.

I will probably be judged negatively, and that's fine, I'm just saying its hard to know where you stand on an issue like this, until you're staring the situation in the face. The fear, shakes, sweats, sleepless nights, and denials really work wonders on what you think you stand for. I wished I would have snooped sooner. And yes, I would do it again.

It's two years later, and I am still with my wife, and our relationship is better than ever (we both agree). I cannot honestly say where we'd be had I not snooped, but i doubt we would ever have made the difficult changes in our lives that were required. We're still working on trust, but that's reality. Relationships take work (that was an expensive/difficult lesson to learn). We're happy, and its working for us...at least so far.

[Pixel_Dent]

My wife and I leave all our email accounts open on all the computers in our house. It really wouldn't occur to either of us not to read the other's email and I'll frequently get a skype saying something like, "Make sure you read that email my sister sent me," or "I saw the email you got from <some client>. Make sure you bill him for <some job>." (We run a business together too)

It honestly never occurred to me that there were married couples who wouldn't want their spouses reading their email. To each his own.

[FlyByNight512]

My husband and I generally don't read each other's email (though I think I have his password somewhere), mostly just for general privacy reasons. If I thought there were severe problems (cheating, drug use, etc) I might look through his email for confirmation. But as others have said, if you get to that point the relationship is hosed already.

[Anne Neville]

I don't know his Gmail password, and he doesn't know mine. Unless he left himself signed in to Gmail, I couldn't do it if I wanted to. Which I don't.

If I really don't want people finding out about something, though, I don't email it. It's safer not to leave written records. People can forward email from you without your knowledge or consent.

[perfectparanoia]

I don't read my husband's email and he doesn't read mine. We both know each other's passwords and have logged onto the other's account at various times if we need a piece of information and they don't have access to a computer (with their permission, of course). When that happens, we go in and forward the relevant email and ignore the rest (because, really, I am sure there is nothing nefarious there and it's probably all boring anyway).

The only snooping I do is that I will occasionally watch my husband's porn. While I know that some of it is just fantasy stuff, it gives me a good idea of what turns him on and I will try to lean in the direction of something he might be too shy to tell me he is into. I felt really bad about it the first few times I did it, though so I told him. Now I have permission to do so and we talk about it and sometimes watch together. He's a prankster though so he will occasionally throw in something really weird just to see my reaction.

[Shade]

I think one thing is that different people have different levels of personal stuff in their email. For some people, email is all logistical stuff and links to family photos, for others its where the most personal things are. Obviously those people are going to have different views about whether it matters to see each others' email.

And when I say "most personal thing", I mean, even if you're NOT going to bitch behind someone's back, I think it's legitimate to randomly feel insecure about something and want to talk it over with your best friend and decide it's not a big deal before blurting out "WE HAVE A PROBLEM AND MUST FIX IT RIGHT NOW" over breakfast. Some people would do that in the pub. Some people over email.

For the record, I don't really need to keep personal/financial stuff secret -- my SO may not know all of it immediately, but I wouldn't mind if she happened to see.

But what _is_ secret would be conversations with friends about THEIR venting and THEIR life. If my best friend is sharing emotional stuff with me for support in confidence (or even something more long term like an engagement or a divorce or a good or bad diagnosis), I don't think that should automatically go to my SO, else it'll end up going to my SO's best friend, and my SO's best friend's SO, etc, etc.

Also, work stuff. I don't have anything very confidential at the moment, but many people will deal with stuff for work that's confidential to a greater or lesser extent, and it'd be a breach of ethics for their SO to see their work email. In fact, if you work for the department of defence or something, you can probably be arrested for treason if you let someone read your email at the wrong time

That said, I don't know if I'm surprised or not. I think reading someone's email is (commonly, not always) a big invasion of privacy. But so is following them, or checking up on them at work, and even if it's wrong we know people do those things when they're worried about their spouse. It's very weird to me to think of a situation where I _wouldn't_ be able to ask my SO what's wrong and get an honest if unpalatable answer, but if I were in a different situation where I couldn't, I don't know how I'd feel.

ETA: That said, regardless of the *literal* answer, I think answering "no, not under any circumstances" is probably a high predictor for being someone I would be compatible with

[geneb]

Like Waxwinged said, there's nothing to hide. The moment I feel like I need to hide something from her would be when I think there's a problem with the relationship.

I keep my work email private, but only because it could cost me my job to give my wife the password and she really does have no need to read it as it is completely unrelated to her in every way. I don't particularly care if she sees what is in it while I am working on it, within reason (some emails are confidential). It is kind of annoying when she stands at my shoulder while I write emails but mostly because I get anxious when I have an audience.

[overlyverbose]

I can't think of a situation where I would care to read my husband's email unless he asked me to. I know his passwords, but have only ussd them a handful of times. Of course if I thought he was cheating I'm not sure what I'd do. I'd prefer to talk to him first rather than seek proof of some sort.

[Nava]

I'm thinking this is sort of related to the "who has your keys" question which came up a while back.

My family shares keys to use in case of emergency; this includes virtual keys (aka passwords) as well as physical ones. I don't use my keys to The Bros' houses to rummage in their underwear drawers, but if one of them is in the hospital, I can bring them underwear. I don't read Littlebro's email, but if he's in the hospital, I can open his email and send notice to his out-of-town friends.

[bengangmo]

Originally Posted by overlyverbose

I can't think of a situation where I would care to read my husband's email unless he asked me to. I know his passwords, but have only ussd them a handful of times. Of course if I thought he was cheating I'm not sure what I'd do. I'd prefer to talk to him first rather than seek proof of some sort.

I'm kinda debating with myself about this one now.

My initial reaction was along the lines how damaging an unfounded accusation could be, and if by doing a 5 minute glance through emails I could confirm / deny a (probably) irrational fear - then it's better to snoop.

Then on the other hand, how damaging is the thought that its ok to snoop to the relationship?

[amanset]

Fuck no.

Even when my relationship was breaking down and she was cheating on me I still didn't do that. Hell, even after we broke up and I had the password to her account I still didn't. Just .... no.

[Shade]

PS. What I'd LIKE (for email as well as facebook, etc) is to accept that people sometimes need to legimately access someone's account and have a proper system for it with some sensible safeguards, rather than polarising people into "never under and circumstances" and "yeah, go ahead, impersonate me as much as you want". Eg. you can designate an official emergency contact in your account, and they can authenticate themself, certifiy there's a good need, and view your account, but just in case, it keeps a record of what they do, and if they need to send an email it's clearly marked "on behalf of", etc. Then it fulfils all the functionality, but without making people merge amoeba-like into the same legal entity

[PunditLisa]

We know each other's passwords, but I never snoop. I'm an adult and I trust him. Generally speaking, people who snoop need to either choose their SOs more wisely, or get some therapy.