Max Payne 3

[Martini Enfield]

Steam has a preorder deal whereby if you preorder Max Payne 3, you get Max Payne 1 and 2 now as well. The cost is $89.99 and I'm tempted, but I'm just not sure what I can look forward to for Max Payne 3. I've seen the promo videos and it looks fun, but not $90 fun - even with the first two games for free - without seeing some reviews.

Anyone else got any thoughts on the upcoming game? I know Rockstar is behind it so the story should be pretty good, but the gameplay videos don't seem substantially different, at least mechanically, from the original game.

[Martini Enfield]

182 views and no-one has any thoughts on the game? Considering that in gaming no news is usually bad news, I'm guessing that doesn't bode well...

[Ike Witt]

It is just way too long since the second one came out. Tying the story in MP2 to MP1 was tenuous at best, and I have doubts about how the story in MP3 will carry it on.

[Toffe]

Well, here’s one opinion: Max Payne 3 has been in development hell, now finally scheduled to come out nearly 9 years since the last game in the franchise. It’s been developed by a different studio, and written by a different writer. (It’s also apparently not the same Rockstar that made the GTA games) The original games were fairly over the top in riffing off the “noir” style and off films and stereotypes surrounding New York City. The style of the originals was entirely based on nighttime and NYC.

So of course, the new studio puts the game in daytime São Paulo and features a redesigned protagonist. There’s no clear continuity with the originals, at least in the material I’ve looked at. So I just wonder what the point of the game is: the original fans are likely to have moved on in the past 9 years, or are expecting a do-over of Duke Nukem Forever. People who started gaming in the last decade most likely didn’t play the originals (Max Payne 2 apparently sold poorly, although a good game – short, but very well-made), and might be put off by this sequel by not having played the originals/not knowing the backstory/not being impressed by seeing a “3” in front of a franchise name they don’t recognise. The change of style and setting doesn’t make sense to me – if they must place it in a sunny favela instead of nighttime New York, then as a resident of Brazil, I wonder why São Paulo of all things (a dull, charm-free sea of concrete on a featureless plain)? Why not Rio de Janeiro, so the backgrounds at least would have more style and be more recognisable?

I’m thinking it might very well be a good game – if they simply copied the predecessors’ gameplay it would be quite solid. I just don’t feel the least desire to pay much more than a fiver for it because the whole presentation and history looks to me like Dr. Frankenstein standing over a dead franchise with a supercharged defibrillator after grafting on multiplayer and half of Kane and Lynch’s face.

[Kinthalis]

Originally Posted by Martini Enfield

Anyone else got any thoughts on the upcoming game? I know Rockstar is behind it so the story should be pretty good, but the gameplay videos don't seem substantially different, at least mechanically, from the original game.

You lost me with this.


Not that I don't think Rockstar is incapable of telling good stories, but they certainly haven't managed to marry their open world games with a cohesive narrative or character development.

'course this is going by GTA IV, and I hear they did a much better job with Red Dead.

I'll probably be picking it up, but not for $80, and I've already played 1 and 2, so I have no interest in the promo. I'll probably wait for 10% discounted sale.

[abel29a]

90$? Seems to expensive. In my Steam location the price is 50 euros which is about 65$. The value of the bundle for 1 & 2 is 15 eruos (20$), so one could argue that the real price of MP3 preorder is 45$, which is a more reasonable price for a new game. Usually Steam has this rather unfair policy of 1USD = 1Euro, so I'd be surprised if the 90$ price quoted by the OP is the correct price.

As for wheter I'd buy it - nope. Waiting for reviews before I plonk down cash on this - but then again I bought the 1&2 bundle a while ago, so that isn't an incentive.

[Cumbrian]

Fairly sure Martini is an Aussie so that price is likely 90 AUS$.

I played and enjoyed the first two. I'd give this a look. But that's review dependent more than likely and certainly not at full price in any case.

[Revtim]

$90 is too much.

[RickJay]

Originally Posted by Ike Witt

It is just way too long since the second one came out. Tying the story in MP2 to MP1 was tenuous at best, and I have doubts about how the story in MP3 will carry it on.

Watching the trailers, it's frankly impossible to tell how the game is at all related to the Max Payne franchise aside from the title.

[Martini Enfield]

Originally Posted by RickJay

Watching the trailers, it's frankly impossible to tell how the game is at all related to the Max Payne franchise aside from the title.

That's what I was thinking too - the protaganist looks more like Heisenberg from Breaking Bad in a Hawaiian shirt (that's not necessarily a bad thing, considering Heisenberg is actually pretty badass) than the Max Payne, hard-boiled cop.

I really enjoyed the story in the original game, but looking at the game play videos for Max Payne 3 I'm seeing a lot of bullet time (fundamentally unchanged from the first game) and not a lot of info on the story surrounding said slow-motion gunplay balletics.

And yes, I'm in Australia, where the quoted price is USD$89.99. Fortunately, the AUD$ and $USD are about at parity, but I'm just not seeing $90 worth of game there at the moment and I'm not hearing much to convince me to the contrary, alas - which is a shame, because it could be a while before it comes down in price to something more reasonable.

[Stormcrow]

I'm looking forward to it, both as a fan of the original two games as well as Rockstar. While it is being designed using the RAGE engine, it is not an open-world game; it's more linear than that. I'm especially looking forward to how Rockstar moves their multiplayer designs forward - I expect that a lot of innovations from this will make it into GTA V eventually.

The mo-cap especiallly looks pretty awesome; the way Max reacts in the gameplay videos is impressive. It's also interesting that they are modelling the paths and actions of individual bullets... not sure that's ever been done before.

From a story standpoint, I can understand worrying about the continuity between the first two games and this, but I can accept the idea that Max felt the need to get out of NYC; I'm not a fan of games that have sequels that emulate the initial game over and over, and Rockstar has rarely done that - none of the GTA games has reused protagonists, for example. So I'll give them the benefit of the doubt on that. They are bringing back the same actor who did Max's voice in the first two games.

I am a little concerned about the lack of buzz. I hope it's a good game, and I hope it does well.

[thelurkinghorror]

$90 AUD is $93 USD, so it's worse. I can't find it on US Steam yet, and I can't justify the cost. Even if they're selling 3 for the now-normal price of $60 instead of $50, then that still leaves $15 apiece for the other games. They can't normally go for more than $5 or even $2.50 on Steam. I might get it some day, but not full price, especially since I'm still working on a backlog of games.

[Martini Enfield]

Originally Posted by Stormcrow

The mo-cap especiallly looks pretty awesome; the way Max reacts in the gameplay videos is impressive. It's also interesting that they are modelling the paths and actions of individual bullets... not sure that's ever been done before.

I agree if does seem pretty impressive, but I'm not sure you can build a game around it. It worked the first time because A) Bullet Time was a new thing and B) There was actually a reasonable noir story attached to all that bullet time. A decade later and Bullet Time is in heaps of games, so the story is going to have to be really strong here. And it may be. I hope it is. I just think $90 is a bit steep for a game with almost no buzz and no early reviews from any of the major reputable sources I usually rely on.

I am a little concerned about the lack of buzz. I hope it's a good game, and I hope it does well.

As do I - but like we're both saying, there should be a lot more buzz about this, and there isn't. Which is sad, because I do want to play it - but so far their marketing people haven't done a good job of convincing me (or any of my other gaming friends that I've spoken to) that this game is awesome enough to justify a $80-$100 investment at this stage.

[Craz3d117]

Max Payne 2 was a fantastic game, as was Max Payne 1. The extra $30 is way too much for 2 games that over 10 years old and where never that popular to begin with (although like I said, they were excellent in my opinion). I'm optimistically skeptical about Max Payne 3. Being a Rockstar game I can't imagine it being bad, but I just really hope they can replicate that same film noir feeling in an environment as vivid as Sao Paulo. Still very much looking forward to it though.

[Martini Enfield]

The going rate on new release games here is about $80 so really it's an extra $10 for the two games, which isn't a bad deal. The issue I'm still working with is if MP3 is worth taking a punt on without some reviews, and at the moment my gut feeling is "No," unfortunately.

[Least Original User Name Ever]

I'm interested in Max Payne. I remember the first one until the stupid dream sequence, where I put it down.

[Stormcrow]

Kotaku had an interesting article on Max Payne's multiplayer today:

http://kotaku.com/5904303/max-payne-...t-move-in-year

[thelurkinghorror]

Question: earlier shots showed Max bald and in a wifebeater. Did they change that due to audience pressure, and to make his change less drastic?

[Stormcrow]

Originally Posted by thelurkinghorror

Question: earlier shots showed Max bald and in a wifebeater. Did they change that due to audience pressure, and to make his change less drastic?

I don't really know - they've said that the head-shaving thing is a plot point, and that he starts off more like the Max we know from previous games. It's hard to say for sure if that is completely planned out before hand, or if it was in response to audience feedback. I'm pretty sure he still ends up in the wife-beater at some point, and I seem to recall most of the gameplay videos I've seen show him that way.

[thelurkinghorror]

Maybe he'll unzip his clothing and turn into Raiden...

I'm not surprised that the internet didn't like the bald, schlubby Max. It's an interesting twist, that's for sure if it does happen.

[Martini Enfield]

Originally Posted by thelurkinghorror

Question: earlier shots showed Max bald and in a wifebeater. Did they change that due to audience pressure, and to make his change less drastic?

The impression I got is that part of the game takes place as flashbacks, so you've got Younger Max with all his hair, and then Heisenberg Max whose let himself go after things got too much for him at some point after MP2.

[Justin_Bailey]

I played the game at PAX East this year, so I think I can answer most of the questions.

-- The game features scenes in both New York and Brazil told in a non-linear fashion. So Max with hair and bald Max will both be playable throughout the game.
-- The head shaving is a major plot point (more or less a "They fucked with the wrong non-Brazilian" moment) and I saw part of it as I was playing.
-- I think "pot belly Max" was nothing more than a bad concept art piece as even bald Max looked pretty svelte and in-shape.
-- I can't tell you how it compares to the first two, but the game plays pretty spectacularly. I especially liked the revenge shot mechanic where bullet-time is automatically enabled after you're shot so you can take a shot at the guy who shot you.

All that said, I have no idea if it's worth $90 in Aussie money. I only got to play for like 15-20 minutes. It was fun, but I'd wait for some reviews if you're on the fence.

[Gukumatz]

Only reason I haven't pre-ordered it is because I didn't know it would come out in May already, so I pre-ordered Diablo 3 instead. I kinda regret that, now. Though I am annoyed that the PC-EU version will be dropped on June 1st instead of May 15, since I have that week off.

[Stormcrow]

I created a Crew: The Perestroika VIP Club (Tag: "Homicide from the Homeland!"). If anyone wants to join up, feel free! I plan on keeping it going through GTA V as well, hence the GTA-themed name.

If anyone creates a straight dope crew, let me know and I'll join. I'm playing on PSN, ID is Morganthaler.

[Gukumatz]

Wow. Just wow.

Great game. Anyone playing it?

[Kinthalis]

I started playing it and I'm not liking the narrative so far. It's eye-roll inducing in the extreme.

However, the shooting is fun, and Max seems like a more interesting, nuanced character to me in this chapter.

It's also a lot more challenging than I thought it would be. Playing on normal and I've died A LOT. Though not so much that I find it frustrating... just a little unforgiving.

On PC the high resolution textures, lighting, tessellaiton, AF and AA make the game look really, really good. If it wasn't for some of the wooden, stiff animations of the characters I'd say it was one of the better looking games I've played.

The only issue with the graphics are the constant in engine, but pre-rendered cut scenes. They look like they were made for the console version. The lighting, the shadowing, the jaggies, the textures, plus it's obviously 30 FPS.

What was obviously made to be seamless, on PC is completely jarring. The game just looks 10 times better running in real time on a PC than in those cut scenes, and MAN are there a LOT of cut scenes!

[Rubixcube]

Note: My opinions of the game come only from the first disc of the 360 version.

After playing a good chunk of the game I can say that if you really like 3rd person shooters you will probably really like this. The actual shooting mechanics are some of the best feeling I've ever played (and I have played quite a few), however that's really all there is. The entire game is a shooting gallery nothing more, the game has absolutely no content that isn't in the form of standard shooting or cut scenes, and this really hurt the game IMHO.

I've heard a lot of people say that the story is the only real reason to play the game, but I didn't experience this. Everything I saw was simply the characters going from one area to the next looking for the kidnapped girl and then narrowly missing her like I said I didn't play the whole game but there wasn't a whole lot that I saw that was interesting.(Note: the disc I played ends just after the attack on the company place with the fire at the end)

In my opinion I would consider on the same level as something like the original Assassin's Creed, in other words it has fantastic game play mechanics and is worth playing, but it's far too repetitive to be worth it at this price.

[Kinthalis]

Originally Posted by Rubixcube

Note: My opinions of the game come only from the first disc of the 360 version.

After playing a good chunk of the game I can say that if you really like 3rd person shooters you will probably really like this. The actual shooting mechanics are some of the best feeling I've ever played (and I have played quite a few), however that's really all there is. The entire game is a shooting gallery nothing more, the game has absolutely no content that isn't in the form of standard shooting or cut scenes, and this really hurt the game IMHO.

I've heard a lot of people say that the story is the only real reason to play the game, but I didn't experience this. Everything I saw was simply the characters going from one area to the next looking for the kidnapped girl and then narrowly missing her like I said I didn't play the whole game but there wasn't a whole lot that I saw that was interesting.(Note: the disc I played ends just after the attack on the company place with the fire at the end)

In my opinion I would consider on the same level as something like the original Assassin's Creed, in other words it has fantastic game play mechanics and is worth playing, but it's far too repetitive to be worth it at this price.

The more I play it, the more I agree with this.

I'm setting this aside for some more Diablo

[Gukumatz]

I've played through it on Normal and Hard now and I've got to concur. The replay value is hampered by having only the one really good gameplay mechanism - shooting. It is absolutely fantastic, for what that's worth and going back to other games like Space Marine now feels so imprecise and cludgy it's hardly worth it. But it does kind of feel like they just took that one thing out of Red Dead Redemption, which had a similiar mechanic, and built everything else around it.

And the writing is ... not so good. It lacks the flair and heartfelt bitterness from the first two games and plays the same notes way too many times. There's very little space for Max to grow as a character. While he changes it up a bit towards the end, I'm really more interested in the next game in term of storyline, since I'm tired of the whole "woe is me, pill-popping alcoholic" schtick. Now that he's off the sauce and a free agent again, I think they can go to more interesting places. The voice acting is competent, but flat.

What I really want, though, is a total conversion mod to the Matrix, like Max Payne 1 & 2. If there's ever been a better vehicle for a Matrix game than this, I've never seen it. The animation, graphics and general attention to detail is incomparable.