Steve Almond: Don't feed the trolls

[BigAppleBucky]

From today’s NY Times Magazine. The actual title was: Liberals Are Ruining America. I Know Because I Am One.

Liberals Are Ruining America. I Know Because I Am One. (Published 2012)

He contends that by attempting to discuss or debate with the right wing trolls, liberals actually aide and abet them.

This, to be blunt, is the tragic flaw of the modern liberal. We choose to see ourselves as innocent victims of an escalating right-wing fanaticism. But too often we serve as willing accomplices to this escalation and to the resulting degradation of our civic discourse. We do this, without even meaning to, by consuming conservative folly as mass entertainment.

Of course, not all right-wing pundits spew hate. But the ones who do are the ones we liberals dependably aggrandize. Consider the recent debate over whether employers must cover contraception in their health plans. The underlying question — should American women receive help in protecting themselves from unwanted pregnancies? — is part of a serious and necessary national conversation.

Any hope of that conversation happening was dashed the moment Rush Limbaugh began his attacks on Sandra Fluke, the young contraceptive advocate. The left took enormous pleasure in seeing Limbaugh pilloried. To what end, though? Industry experts noted that his ratings actually went up during the flap. In effect, the firestorm helped Limbaugh do his job, at least in the short term.

But the real problem isn’t Limbaugh. He’s just a businessman who is paid to reduce complex cultural issues to ad hominem assaults. The real problem is that liberals, both on an institutional and a personal level, have chosen to treat for-profit propaganda as news. In so doing, we have helped redefine liberalism as an essentially reactionary movement. Rather than initiating discussion, or advocating for more humane policy, we react to the most vile and nihilistic voices on the right.

I’m not certain his approach would be effective in the long run. It’s not bad on an internet message board, but ignoring them in real life might allow too much poison to fester and result in some really nasty violence such as beatings and political assignations.

So the question is, should liberals simply ignore Faux News, Limbaurgh, and the rest of the right wing nut jobs, or is that an unwise course?

[YogSothoth]

Wasn’t there a recent article on a newspaper with almost the opposite title (but not the opposite claim)?

[Marley23]

If this discussion is going to start by calling people trolls, it belongs in The BBQ Pit, not Great Debates. Moved.

[John_Mace]

Eh. It’s not an either or proposition. Play a very active role in defining the issues and get your message out there. At the same time, expose the nutjobs for what they are. JUST QUIT WHINING ABOUT IT ALREADY!!

[Lobohan]

@John_Mace

Eh. It’s not an either or proposition. Play a very active role in defining the issues and get your message out there. At the same time, expose the nutjobs for what they are. JUST QUIT WHINING ABOUT IT ALREADY!!

Yeah, no reason to whine, it’s not like one side is utterly okay with lying and a third of the country only consumes media that supports those lies.

:rolleyes:

Honestly, though. It’s easier to say, “Globull Warming is a liberal plot to destroy our gas and coal industries.” than to actually explain what Global Warming is.

Lies are easy, and you’re not supposed to be okay with doing them. The reason liberals are constantly upset is that the other side isn’t supposed to outright lie and stick with it.

It’s hard to fight a lie because you start on the defensive.

[Robot_Arm]

The essential argument may be correct, that it would be more productive to ignore the likes of Limbaugh than to engage them, but the author lets Limbaugh off too lightly.

But the real problem isn’t Limbaugh. He’s just a businessman who is paid to reduce complex cultural issues to ad hominem assaults.

I read an interesting article once about people looking for ways to regain control when subjected to poor treatment from others. It compared them to mice in a laboratory experiment. the mice learn which button to press to get the food or avoid the shock, but that doesn’t mean that they are in control. And it doesn’t mean that the scientist is an automaton, with not responsibility for his own actions.

In short, Limbaugh is free to make choices the same as anyone else. If Almond believes that engaging with Limbaugh is a degradation of civic discourse, it is Limbaugh’s fault as much as anyone’s.

@John_Mace

Eh. It’s not an either or proposition. Play a very active role in defining the issues and get your message out there. At the same time, expose the nutjobs for what they are. JUST QUIT WHINING ABOUT IT ALREADY!!

Limbaugh calls fluke a slut. Liberals call Limbaugh a bully. Which side is whining, exactly?

[saoirse]

@Robot_Arm

Limbaugh calls fluke a slut. Liberals call Limbaugh a bully. Which side is whining, exactly?

Although no one seemed to be pointing out that what Fluke wanted was to have birth control covered by her health insurance. Which pretty much everyone in the private sector has. Which means that Fluke is as much a slut as millions of American women in the workforce. Perhaps right-wongers like John Mace call it whining because the response was so focused on how mean Limbaugh was being to that one student, instead of what he was sayong about the rest of the healthcare system.

[John_Mace]

@Robot_Arm

Limbaugh calls fluke a slut. Liberals call Limbaugh a bully. Which side is whining, exactly?

Where did I say anyone was whining in that particular exchange?

[Robot_Arm]

@John_Mace

Where did I say anyone was whining in that particular exchange?

I never said you did.

But by all means, please, give us an example of the kind of whining that this thread put you in mind of.