Epic Story! "The Mystery Of The Transvestite And The Stolen Car "[now a debate on slurs]

[astro]

The Mystery Of The Transvestite And The Stolen Car – Tales From The Valet Stand

A tidy little read1

[Noodles Fellicini]

So that's two things I've learned today -- Silly Putty bounces, and Astro and I don't have the same taste in stories. That was stupid and sad and I want to un-read it.

[jlzania]

'Epic'? Nah. Mean and stupid, yes.

[swampbear]

It gave me the giggles. I wonder how he explained to his wife why he got a room at the W for the night and didn't come home. Also, why he did not close his door when he went to get ice so that transvestite who was skulking around the halls of the hotel just waiting for the opportunity to sneak in a room and steal keys could get in and steal his keys. Also I wonder what they said when one of the kids asked, "What does fuck mean?"

[flatlined]

Has to admit that I laughed too. Some people make bad choices, and some people make REALLY bad choices.

[Taomist]

Now THAT should have been in the Hangover2.

[Eve]

I get it--it's funny because the faggot had sex with a nigger who was a tranny, right?

[Smapti]

Cool story, bro.

[FairyChatMom]

This is the kind of story that if I saw it in a movie, I'd be saying "Yeah, like that could ever happen..." Maybe some of those really horrible sitcom episodes I've seen in the past were, in fact, based on reality??

[Hypno-Toad]

Hey, I laughed. But remember, I'm mean. Really.

BTW, I wonder if the cops have a term for that exact kind of incident. "Yeah, we had a #17 down at the W Hotel this morning."

[Clothahump]

I don't care who you are, that's funny right there.

You can't fix stupid, but you can sure laugh at it.

[grude]

Originally Posted by Eve

I get it--it's funny because the faggot had sex with a nigger who was a tranny, right?

I think what makes it kinda funny is the lies he was telling to his wife(but then if the guy is spending saturday night with a hooker in a hotel and lieing about it how good can their marriage be?) but it might just be me.

Closeted family man gets burned by rough trade is kinda funny, if insensitive.

[Taomist]

Originally Posted by grude

Closeted family man gets burned by rough trade is kinda funny, if insensitive.

I thought the funny part was him not knowing it was tranny until he was TOLD. At least that was the impression given by his reaction when he found out. (Not saying he couldn't be in deep-down-denial, but the reaction was priceless regardless)

[Eve]

Originally Posted by Taomist

I thought the funny part was him not knowing it was tranny until he was TOLD.

You know . . . I try to be a good sport, I really do, and I do not want to become one of those angry, angry people.

But in the past two weeks, the NYT has used the word "tranny" twice (and have ignored my e-mails telling them that if they don't use nigger, kike or faggot, they really should not be using "tranny").

I happened across mean-spirited "sex change" jokes on Family Guy (no surprise, Seth McFarland is a world-class douche) and The Today Show (bit of a surprise, and the crew guffawed heartily at the joke).

And three threads here on the SDMB. To be fair, 95% of posters are coming to our defense and being regular bricks, but it's the 5% of idiots who make me tired. "We're where you were 100 years ago," I recently told a black friend. Or where gays were 50 years ago. People know we exist, but just as human punchlines.

So, no, I don't get the humor in "him not knowing it was [a] tranny until he was TOLD." It's my own damn fault--from now on I am not going to look at anything or read anything from after 1950.

[akennett]

Sounds like a plan. Though you really should add something about also not posting to message boards until you get the stick surgically removed from your ass.

[needscoffee]

Wait, "tranny" is a bad word for "transvestite"? Not that I've ever had occasion to use it, but I assumed it was just a non-pejorative shortened version of the word. I've never heard that before. Now I know. Is "transvestite" okay to use?

That story just strikes me as sad. I prefer the initial image of the cross-dressing guy being a construction worker by day rather than a hooker full-time.

[elbows]

but it's the 5% of idiots who make me tired.

You are a very good sport, and people are sometimes insensitive jerks. But I don't think you'll ever lose that 5%, to be honest. You might need to just let it go instead.

I know people who self identify as 'tranny', use the word freely and often in conversation.

[Hypno-Toad]

Now I'm wondering about my friend the mechanic who said he spends a lot of time lubing up trannies...

[Eve]

Originally Posted by akennett

Though you really should add something about also not posting to message boards until you get the stick surgically removed from your ass.

Yep, that's just what they said about dem uppity nigras what didn't find minstrels amusing--"no sensa humor, them darkies!" Standing up to hate speech and bigotry really does make one look like a prissy schoolmarm, there's no way around it.

P.S. You are right, though, posting to message boards is a bad idea for me, and I think it is a habit I should stop. There are plenty of good books to be read (and written) without looking for trouble on places like this.

[Johanna]

It wears you down, year after year, constantly seeing messages that you're inferior to the rest of humanity.

[BigT]

Originally Posted by Eve

Yep, that's just what they said about dem uppity nigras what didn't find minstrels amusing--"no sensa humor, them darkies!" Standing up to hate speech and bigotry really does make one look like a prissy schoolmarm, there's no way around it.

P.S. You are right, though, posting to message boards is a bad idea for me, and I think it is a habit I should stop. There are plenty of good books to be read (and written) without looking for trouble on places like this.

Thing is, it is your problem. I see people make jokes about the mentally ill. I don't freak out about that. I freak out when people actually treat us poorly, but not when people make jokes, even if I don't find them funny.

You are trying to make people feel bad not for treating you poorly, not for being bigots, but because they find something funny that you don't. You could tell from the title of this thread what this was going to be about. If it bothered you, you could have not read it. But you just had to come in and tell everyone how horrible they are for finding something funny you didn't.

Unless someone is trying to offend, there is no point in getting all offended, and, if you lash out in that offense, it will almost always make you come off as the jerk.

[elbows]

Yep, that's just what they said about dem uppity nigras what didn't find minstrels amusing--"no sensa humor, them darkies!" Standing up to hate speech and bigotry really does make one look like a prissy schoolmarm, there's no way around it.

You're not wrong in your analogy. But, just like the word 'nigger' you kind of can't have it both ways. Nigger is still in play largely because black people like to throw it out there for effect, from time to time, comic or otherwise. As long as they do, (and hey, who has more right to own the word then them?), it's going to be out there getting play.

As long as some still like the shock value of self referencing as 'tranny' that word isn't going away. That's what I was trying to say about the 5%. I don't think getting to 100% is a possibility. With either word.

As long as it has shock value it will see usage, in rap lyrics, in jokes, in self referencing, etc.

Take your victory in the 95% and let the rest slide off, I say.

[Eve]

Originally Posted by BigT

Unless someone is trying to offend, there is no point in getting all offended.

Wrong. Wrong, wrong, wrong. We'd still be singing "Nigger Love a Watermelon--Ha! Ha! Ha!" if no one ever pointed out how wrong that sort of thing is.

Originally Posted by BigT

if you lash out in that offense, it will almost always make you come off as the jerk.

I did not lash out, I stated my case in a calm, good-natured way and admitted that I was getting bent out of shape over a losing battle. Judging by the private messages I have been getting today, I'm not the one who is coming off as a jerk.

Anyway, I have said what I had to say and there is nothing more I can possibly add.

[scratch llll]

Wow. Tranny isn't just a cutesy non offensive type shortening of a word like trekkie and such. I never knew. And some transvestites are looking real hard for something to be offended over. Never knew that either. I guess it stands to reason there would be some of that group in the transvestite group as well but I just never put it together till I saw it.

I never checked the link. It sounded pathetic and sad from others descriptions.

[tesseract]

How is this happening? How are people daring to speak to wonderful, brilliant Eve like this, especially after an OP like this? I feel sick and sad.

[Hypno-Toad]

Because Eve is trying to take a word that is really just a slang term for a transvestite and all by herself make it into a derogatory slur. Watch, her reply will use the word nigger. She'll try to make it sound like Tranny is the same level of intentional and widely accepted offensiveness when it most plainly is not.

Sorry, Eve. I'm not buying it. Just because you are offended by the term tranny does not make it a generally accepted slur.

[Inner Stickler]

What is this bizarro land? Of course tranny is pejorative and Eve and Johanna have every right to be hurt by its usage here. Stop trying to marginalize transphobia.

And the story sucked both from a humor and literary perspective.

[Hypno-Toad]

You're talking through your hat. It's hardly "marginalizing" to recognize that a molehill is not a mountain.

I could take all the arguments I see here and use them to protest the way us bald guys get treated in life and in the media. I could accuse you of being baldophobic or hair-centric. I could accuse you of marginalizing me because you disagree. But all my arguments wouldn't change the fact that I was taking way more offense than was warranted any time I saw a commercial for rogaine.

We have so many things in life to be bothered by. Why go looking for more? And that's what this is. People going out of their way to be offended.

Well, I'm off to go harangue some folks for doing something I hate, like eating broccoli. Because in doing so, they're being insensitive to me!

[Inner Stickler]

Do you honestly not see how the use of the word tranny to refer to people like the woman in the story helps perpetuate a culture that makes it ok to mock and denigrate transgender people? Being transgender is not an easy road nor is it always a safe road. No one has gotten knifed for being bald or assaulted for being a broccoli eater.

Regardless of what people in other situations say is ok or not ok, in this particular format of communication, you have multiple people who are members of the demographic in question telling you that it's not ok.

[Drain Bead]

Also, transsexual =/= transvestite.

[Inner Stickler]

I'm not sure even the blog writer knew who he was referring to. The simplest case is to simply not use a derogatory word in the first place and avoid the whole mess.

[Hypno-Toad]

Originally Posted by Inner Stickler

Do you honestly not see how the use of the word tranny to refer to people like the woman in the story helps perpetuate a culture that makes it ok to mock and denigrate transgender people? Being transgender is not an easy road nor is it always a safe road. No one has gotten knifed for being bald or assaulted for being a broccoli eater.

Regardless of what people in other situations say is ok or not ok, in this particular format of communication, you have multiple people who are members of the demographic in question telling you that it's not ok.

I understand that it can be rough for a transvestite or transgender person. But I refuse to let them use their situation as a form of emotional blackmail to control my behavior. They need to get off their "I'm so persecuted" high horse and deal with it. This thread is a perfect example. It was a link to a mediocre story that was hijacked into an argument because one person wanted to have a fight. If Eve had simply let it go, no one would even remember this thread. But since it just had to be used as a venue for her crusade against all the injustice, here we are. Your continued harping on this matter just keeps showing me how right I am on it. I will not meekly let you tell me how and what I am allowed to think. Save your morality for yourself.

Just to be clear. Tranny is a bad word in YOUR opinion. Not mine.

[Inner Stickler]

This is the hill you want to die on? Using a pejorative term like tranny? How sad.

[Hypno-Toad]

Originally Posted by Inner Stickler

This is the hill you want to die on? Using a pejorative term like tranny? How sad.

Hey, You all are the ones insisting that it's a big deal. That's the whole point. And I guess you've run out of arguments since now you can only try to dismiss my view as sad.

[Inner Stickler]

Because it is a big deal to not use terms that are not acceptable labels for particular groups. It's sad to insist on being able to call people by a name they don't wish to be called. It's a matter of basic respect and decency.

[MsWhatsit]

Tranny is a derogatory term, a lot of people in this thread are being jerks to Eve for no apparent reason, and the story in the OP was stupid, badly-written, and sucked.

[Hypno-Toad]

Originally Posted by Inner Stickler

Because it is a big deal to not use terms that are not acceptable labels for particular groups. It's sad to insist on being able to call people by a name they don't wish to be called. It's a matter of basic respect and decency.

You are correct on that matter. Nonetheless, the response to the OP was over the top and controlling. MsWhatsit, Eve brought it on herself. We don't all knuckle under when folks harangue us for not living like they think we should.

[Inner Stickler]

You weren't harangued for anything until you decided to defend the dipshit blogger who's using insulting language. Again, this is a really pathetic issue to mount some sort of free speech stance. Transphobics don't need to be white-knighted.

[Hypno-Toad]

Originally Posted by Inner Stickler

You weren't harangued for anything until you decided to defend the dipshit blogger who's using insulting language. Again, this is a really pathetic issue to mount some sort of free speech stance. Transphobics don't need to be white-knighted.

Again, trying to dismiss my argument by calling it pathetic. Try sticking to real points. As for making it a big deal, I'm arguing back at you exactly as hard as you are arguing at me. That's the whole point. You guys made it a big deal.

As for the original cause, I don't really care about the OP. It was the annoying response to the OP that was whiney and manipulative. Surely, you don't think that I'm suddenly going to say, "Oh you're right. I'm sorry" do you? Show me how much better you are and let this die.

[Inner Stickler]

Originally Posted by Hypno-Toad

Again, trying to dismiss my argument by calling it pathetic. Try sticking to real points. As for making it a big deal, I'm arguing back at you exactly as hard as you are arguing at me. That's the whole point. You guys made it a big deal.

When you have an argument that's not "but I don't wanna" maybe I'll stop calling it pathetic.

Surely, you don't think that I'm suddenly going to say, "Oh you're right. I'm sorry" do you?

Yes, when Eve says that she doesn't appreciate people using the word tranny, the appropriate response is, indeed to say "Oh, you're right. I'm sorry." and not to try to defend its use.

[MsWhatsit]

Originally Posted by Hypno-Toad

You are correct on that matter. Nonetheless, the response to the OP was over the top and controlling. MsWhatsit, Eve brought it on herself. We don't all knuckle under when folks harangue us for not living like they think we should.

You think that was a harangue? Are you new to the Internet or something? Chill it down a notch, dude. Your responses in this thread to what was really a pretty low-key post from Eve have been ludicrously over-the-top.

[Hypno-Toad]

Originally Posted by Inner Stickler

When you have an argument that's not "but I don't wanna" maybe I'll stop calling it pathetic.
Yes, when Eve says that she doesn't appreciate people using the word tranny, the appropriate response is, indeed to say "Oh, you're right. I'm sorry." and not to try to defend its use.

Look at Eve's first post. The proper option would have been for Eve not to try to elevate the situation out of proportion by equating the word tranny to the same level as nigger and faggot. Like the OP had posted a hate crime or some such. She did not say, "I'd appreciate it if you did not use that term." I wouldn't be arguing this now if Eve had shown some decorum while berating others for their lack of decorum.

[Miller]

Originally Posted by Hypno-Toad

Because Eve is trying to take a word that is really just a slang term for a transvestite and all by herself make it into a derogatory slur. Watch, her reply will use the word nigger. She'll try to make it sound like Tranny is the same level of intentional and widely accepted offensiveness when it most plainly is not.

I very much doubt she'll do that. What I would expect is for her to continue the argument she's already made, which is that the word "tranny" today is equivalent to the word "nigger" around the turn of the 19th century. Which seems pretty apt - I suspect at the time that there were a lot of black people raising similar objections to the casual use of the word "nigger." And, I suspect, there were a lot of non-black people dismissing their complaints through reference to the commonality of the term, as you're doing here.

Sorry, Eve. I'm not buying it. Just because you are offended by the term tranny does not make it a generally accepted slur.

Your problem here is that it's not just Eve who is offended by the term. Most trans people find the term offensive. I'm usually all for the democratization of meaning, but if a term used to describe a small minority is widely taken as insulting by members of that minority, then the word is a slur, regardless of what the mainstream attitude is to that term.

[Hypno-Toad]

Miller, you make good points. But please understand that It's not really the word tranny that I'm all up about, although maybe I've been unclear. It was Eve's response to the OP that I object to. It was borderline threadshitting. I get very annoyed when people intrude on a thread just to announce that the OP is bad. Her later post was more considered. But it doesn't change the really pissy manner of her first reaction.

[Tangent]

Originally Posted by astro

Epic Story! "The Mystery Of The Transvestite And The Stolen Car – Tales From The Valet Stand"

I feel cheated. That story wasn't epic at all.

[DocCathode]

I'm with Eve on this one. Maybe the person saying "tranny" does not mean to be offensive. It remains a very offensive word. The only folks I can think of who use the word with any regularity are known for being LGBT friendly and us the word much like a black rapper would use "nigger".

[Vinyl Turnip]

Originally Posted by Inner Stickler

Transphobics don't need to be white-knighted.

But the objects of their phobia do, evidently.

People are, of course, free to define what they are and aren't offended by. I've seen it suggested that "transsexual" and "transvestite" are now considered offensive terms by some, however, so I suspect we're in another game of "chase the euphemism," which never ends and nobody ever wins.

[DocCathode]

Originally Posted by Vinyl Turnip

I've seen it suggested that "transsexual" and "transvestite" are now considered offensive terms by some,

Suggested by whom and how often?

[Vinyl Turnip]

Originally Posted by DocCathode

Suggested by whom and how often?

I can't say how often, but I've seen it come up in threads on this board before. Here's one thread from a while back.

Google "transvestite transsexual offensive" and you'll see a number of hits.

[DocCathode]

Reading the quote you linked to, KellyM didn't say the word transvestite was in and of itself offensive. She said you could offend some one who is a transsexual by calling them a transvestite. Surely you can see how calling somebody 'just a man in woman's clothing' could be offensive?