I pit churches that exist to attack other churches

[the_diego]

It reminds me of MBA class and all this talk about competitive market positioning. There's nothing wrong with saying you're the true church of Christ or God but saying flat out that other churches are pagan or, at the least, not of God or Jesus is, I think, un-Christian.

And before some people turn this into a Great Debate thread, I would like to say that I'm agnostic, bordering to Atheism. But I continue to practice the religion my parents brought me up in and I don't take kindly to so-called objective criticisms by people who read bible verses at the high school level and pronounce anything contrary as demonic or pagan.

[Mangetout]

Originally Posted by the_diego

It reminds me of MBA class and all this talk about competitive market positioning. There's nothing wrong with saying you're the true church of Christ or God but saying flat out that other churches are pagan or, at the least, not of God or Jesus is, I think, un-Christian.

I agree it's shitty, but what do you really expect them to do? "This thing is really important, and I've got the truth in my possession, but hey, so has everybody else!"

[the_diego]

Here in my country at least, they can stop posting online cartoons of demonic popes and bishops. They're also mis-informed about stolen blessed sacraments. A church doesn't automatically close down if consecrated matter is stolen. The whole parish simply goes into prolonged penance.

[Mangetout]

Some detail might have helped. I haven't a clue what incidents you're referring to.

[clairobscur]

Originally Posted by the_diego

Here in my country at least, they can stop posting online cartoons of demonic popes and bishops. They're also mis-informed about stolen blessed sacraments. A church doesn't automatically close down if consecrated matter is stolen. The whole parish simply goes into prolonged penance.

What? Can you elaborate?

[kanicbird]

To me all churches and religious structures are somewhat demonic, it is a mix of God and Satan that is allowed to exist for a time till God's children realize this get up and leave.

I know you said you didn't' want a GD, but that was just a background of my reply to your pitting, which is Satan operates at that church what else would you expect?

[DrFidelius]

Originally Posted by the_diego

Here in my country at least, they can stop posting online cartoons of demonic popes and bishops. They're also mis-informed about stolen blessed sacraments. A church doesn't automatically close down if consecrated matter is stolen. The whole parish simply goes into prolonged penance.

What country is that? Do you have links to any news stories about this plague of thefts? The rightness of others' beliefs are not for us to judge, but criminal actions must be prosecuted.

[John Mace]

Originally Posted by kanicbird

To me all churches and religious structures are somewhat demonic, it is a mix of God and Satan that is allowed to exist for a time till God's children realize this get up and leave.

I know you said you didn't' want a GD, but that was just a background of my reply to your pitting, which is Satan operates at that church what else would you expect?

Well, there you have it!

[Guinastasia]

Originally Posted by kanicbird

To me all churches and religious structures are somewhat demonic, it is a mix of God and Satan that is allowed to exist for a time till God's children realize this get up and leave.

What the fucking fuck?

[Ludovic]

DNFT Lunatic.

[Typo Negative]

Originally Posted by the_diego

It reminds me of MBA class and all this talk about competitive market positioning. There's nothing wrong with saying you're the true church of Christ or God but saying flat out that other churches are pagan or, at the least, not of God or Jesus is, I think, un-Christian.

That sounds like witch talk to me!

[buckgully]

The title of this thread makes me think "predatory churches". That leads me to the mental picture of a Tyrannosaurus Rex wearing a pope hat and carrying a papal staff in his otherwise useless forearms running around eating smaller, plant-eating churches.

Just wanted to share that image, because it's too awesome to keep in my own head.

ETA: Egad!: http://www.flickr.com/photos/monado/6082134010/

[Balance]

In my experience, churches reproduce by fission, driven by internal strife. Two cliques in the congregation decide they can't stand each other, and force everyone else to take sides. They snipe and feud for a while, then pick some petty point of doctrine to disagree over; they make this point the deciding factor as to whether or not the other side counts as Christian. Whichever side has less power--because they're smaller, have less control over the purse strings, or have less pull with the priest/minister/whatever--gets pushed out and forms another church down the road. (Regrettably, this does not generally involve blackjack and hookers.)

They've already painted the other group as unbelievers in order to rationalize the breakup; this attitude gets reinforced over time, then passed along as tradition. Of course they're going to malign each other.

[Snarky_Kong]

Originally Posted by Guinastasia

What the fucking fuck?

You've been around here long enough to know that kanicbird is fucking loony tunes. Why so surprised?

[Rhythmdvl]

Originally Posted by Mangetout

I agree it's shitty, but what do you really expect them to do? "This thing is really important, and I've got the truth in my possession, but hey, so has everybody else!"

Each church as its own 'truth'. The job of other churches is to sneak into the other religion's sanctuaries, steal the truth, and bring it back to their own inner sanctum. If the church is caught doing that, the truth goes back to the original alter and the missionaries trying to get the truth are 'out' for a set period. If either church successfully brings the other's truth back to their home base, they are declared the winner. Tribes are then broken up and the selection process starts all over again.

[Lobohan]

Originally Posted by kanicbird

To me all churches and religious structures are somewhat demonic, it is a mix of God and Satan that is allowed to exist for a time till God's children realize this get up and leave.

I know you said you didn't' want a GD, but that was just a background of my reply to your pitting, which is Satan operates at that church what else would you expect?

Or, conversely, you might be a crazy person.

[campp]

Originally Posted by Ludovic

DNFT Lunatic.

What does this acronym mean?

[Eyebrows 0f Doom]

Originally Posted by campp

What does this acronym mean?

Do not feed the lunatic.

[Mangetout]

Originally Posted by Rhythmdvl

Each church as its own 'truth'. The job of other churches is to sneak into the other religion's sanctuaries, steal the truth, and bring it back to their own inner sanctum. If the church is caught doing that, the truth goes back to the original alter and the missionaries trying to get the truth are 'out' for a set period. If either church successfully brings the other's truth back to their home base, they are declared the winner. Tribes are then broken up and the selection process starts all over again.

Yeah, but it's all really about the sponsorship, and extended penance.

[Malleus, Incus, Stapes!]

Originally Posted by buckgully

The title of this thread makes me think "predatory churches". That leads me to the mental picture of a Tyrannosaurus Rex wearing a pope hat and carrying a papal staff in his otherwise useless forearms running around eating smaller, plant-eating churches.

Just wanted to share that image, because it's too awesome to keep in my own head.

ETA: Egad!: http://www.flickr.com/photos/monado/6082134010/

Rival Pope-rexes! Run for your lives!

[j666]

But any organized social structure eventually starts attacking others, usually for power of some sort. Why should you expect churches to be any different?

Originally Posted by Snarky_Kong

You've been around here long enough to know that kanicbird is fucking loony tunes. Why so surprised?

Originally Posted by Lobohan

Or, conversely, you might be a crazy person.

Or could believe that religion is one thing, organized "churches" are another, and that the latter brings out the worst in people.

[Ludovic]

Originally Posted by j666

Or could believe that religion is one thing, organized "churches" are another, and that the latter brings out the worst in people.

Could. But that's not mutually exclusive with the other possibilities, which I ensure you are also in effect.

[Nametag]

Originally Posted by Balance

In my experience, churches reproduce by fission, driven by internal strife. Two cliques in the congregation decide they can't stand each other, and force everyone else to take sides. They snipe and feud for a while, then pick some petty point of doctrine to disagree over; they make this point the deciding factor as to whether or not the other side counts as Christian. Whichever side has less power--because they're smaller, have less control over the purse strings, or have less pull with the priest/minister/whatever--gets pushed out and forms another church down the road. (Regrettably, this does not generally involve blackjack and hookers.)

They've already painted the other group as unbelievers in order to rationalize the breakup; this attitude gets reinforced over time, then passed along as tradition. Of course they're going to malign each other.

Splitter!

[the_diego]

Originally Posted by DrFidelius

What country is that? Do you have links to any news stories about this plague of thefts? The rightness of others' beliefs are not for us to judge, but criminal actions must be prosecuted.

Philippines, my good man. The population is roughly 80% Roman Catholic, 15% Mohammedan, and maybe 5% non-Catholic Christian denominations. The 5% is the most volatile in terms of growth and conversion rate. We all know the RCC is thinning out in many parts of the world (though poor Catholic countries still record high population growth.)

Regarding theft of the Blessed Sacrament, it has happened often enough. The last case was hyped up because it was a major parish in the national capital region, situated along a highway where one also finds the headquarters of a non-Catholic Christian church. I of course can't say anything other than repeat accusations made by some Catholics. But one steals consecrated substances for no reason other than to humiliate a parish and maybe force its closure. Give me time to dig up all recorded cases of theft.

[the_diego]

addendum:

The news did not make clear whether or not the stolen monstrance in the major parish contained consecrated substances. But the monstrance was in itself a valuable relic, and even the Vatican has issued a comment regarding its theft.

[kaylasdad99]

People still say "Mohammaden"?

Also, just for clarity's sake: is it the denominations in the 5% that you're pitting (apparently for theft of consecrated substances, by which I presume you mean hosts)?

Or are some Catholic churches stealing from other Catholic churches?

[Guinastasia]

Originally Posted by j666

But any organized social structure eventually starts attacking others, usually for power of some sort. Why should you expect churches to be any different?

Or could believe that religion is one thing, organized "churches" are another, and that the latter brings out the worst in people.

You're not that familiar with Kanicbird, are you?

[dropzone]

Originally Posted by the_diego

But one steals consecrated substances for no reason other than to humiliate a parish and maybe force its closure.

Originally Posted by Typo Negative

That sounds like witch talk to me!

No, it sounds like somebody covering up the actions of witches! Who else has perverse uses for consecrated objects?

Originally Posted by the_diego

The news did not make clear whether or not the stolen monstrance in the major parish contained consecrated substances. But the monstrance was in itself a valuable relic, and even the Vatican has issued a comment regarding its theft.

A large object made of solid gold? That could be worth stealing all on its own.

(researching)

No, it's only gold plated, like a cheap necklace from WalMart. Not worth stealing at all. I'm back to the witch theory. They do have witches in the Philippines, don't they?

[the_diego]

Originally Posted by kaylasdad99

People still say "Mohammaden"?

I'm trying to live my entire life without ever becoming PL.

Also, just for clarity's sake: is it the denominations in the 5% that you're pitting (apparently for theft of consecrated substances, by which I presume you mean hosts)?

Or are some Catholic churches stealing from other Catholic churches?

No, not just the 5%, and it's not just about the theft(s). Catholic intra-church thieving? Why not? Not entirely impossible. Just not plausible.

[the_diego]

Originally Posted by dropzone

No, it's only gold plated, like a cheap necklace from WalMart. Not worth stealing at all. I'm back to the witch theory. They do have witches in the Philippines, don't they?

I don't think it's the one from Guadalupe. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AVaC8zq5dqM

There are supposed witches in the Philippines. Most legends center around a small island sub-province in the south. What's known is that some of the folks there have a tradition of making potions, balms and other stuff. A lot of quack doctors and faith healers come form that place. However, later generations lost their courage and dignity and studied western medicine instead.

[dropzone]

Originally Posted by the_diego

I don't think it's the one from Guadalupe. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AVaC8zq5dqM

Yep, plated.

Originally Posted by the_diego

However, later generations lost their courage and dignity and studied western medicine instead.

Or wanted to actually cure people. And be paid in cash instead of livestock.

I still kinda wish the US had given the Philippines the option of statehood, even though my Spanish is lousy and the likelihood that I could learn Tagalog fades with each passing year. I'm still holding out for Cuba and have added Guyana to my wish list, imperial SOB that I am.

[the_diego]

I'm sure that's what a lot of guys here would want that. And timing's about right now. If done pre-war, there would have been some snarking about it, what with close to 1.0 million Filipinos killed during the American campaign to wipe out Aguinaldo's forces.

But swerving back to the topic, I still think it's a marketing game all-in-all. That in itself if not pittable but claiming you're the Church of God because that's what you call yourself, and that's how the Bible calls it, makes me want to become a Soviet.

[kaylasdad99]

PL?

[Guinastasia]

Originally Posted by the_diego

I'm trying to live my entire life without ever becoming PL.

PL -- is that like a new way of saying "PC" or something?

[the_diego]

Politically correct, yes that's the term.

[Darth Panda]

You are all going to hell.


When you see the Devil, tell him I'm a-coming.

[kaylasdad99]

Originally Posted by kaylasdad99

People still say "Mohammaden"?

Originally Posted by the_diego

I'm trying to live my entire life without ever becoming PL.

Originally Posted by kaylasdad99

PL?

Originally Posted by Guinastasia

PL -- is that like a new way of saying "PC" or something?

Originally Posted by the_diego

Politically correct, yes that's the term.

Oh. Well, thanks for the clarification.

[Malleus, Incus, Stapes!]

Adding another "Huh?" here.

Exactly how are you defining politically correct, anyway?

[kaylasdad99]

Evidently, if calling Muslims "Mohammadens" was good enough for his forbears, it's damn well good enough for him, and he's not going to knuckle under to the liberal, PC demand that he start referring to adherents of Islam the way they refer to themselves.

[DrFidelius]

What? Mussulman's too hoity-toity for you?

[the_diego]

Originally Posted by kaylasdad99

Evidently, if calling Muslims "Mohammadens" was good enough for his forbears, it's damn well good enough for him, and he's not going to knuckle under to the liberal, PC demand that he start referring to adherents of Islam the way they refer to themselves.

If your PC program is meant to accommodate wimps who want the whole world to call them what they want, then I'm jealous of my forebears.

It's "Mohammedans" who follow "Mohammedanism."

[gamerunknown]

Oh sorry. Borrowed the host for black mass, it's got an integral role. Requires a ginger too. It's gotten a bit wet - no time to explain (actually, so has the ginger). Would you like it back?

[the_diego]

Originally Posted by gamerunknown

Oh sorry. Borrowed the host for black mass, it's got an integral role. Requires a ginger too. It's gotten a bit wet - no time to explain (actually, so has the ginger). Would you like it back?

You'll convert dozens of Catholics with that news. Way to go.

[BrainGlutton]

Originally Posted by the_diego

It reminds me of MBA class and all this talk about competitive market positioning. There's nothing wrong with saying you're the true church of Christ or God but saying flat out that other churches are pagan or, at the least, not of God or Jesus is, I think, un-Christian.

Actually, it's ur-Christian. In first two or three centuries of the Christian Era, what you're describing was all over the Roman Empire.

[BigT]

Yes, it's typical kanicbird, and as typical kanicbird, it makes sense if you (1) think about it in fundamentalist theology terms* and (2) don't assume he's spouting nonsense.

All he said was that no church is 100% right, that all of them have a mixture of good (God) and evil (Satan). And that, when Christians realize this, that's when things will get better.

*It isn't fundie theology, but he does use the same terms. Well, that and a few New Agey ones. It's just typical salad plate religion, with an emphasis on Christianity.

[BrainGlutton]

Originally Posted by buckgully

The title of this thread makes me think "predatory churches". That leads me to the mental picture of a Tyrannosaurus Rex wearing a pope hat and carrying a papal staff in his otherwise useless forearms running around eating smaller, plant-eating churches.

Just wanted to share that image, because it's too awesome to keep in my own head.

ETA: Egad!: http://www.flickr.com/photos/monado/6082134010/

That can't be right! The Pope is a primate!

[BrainGlutton]

Originally Posted by kaylasdad99

Also, just for clarity's sake: is it the denominations in the 5% that you're pitting (apparently for theft of consecrated substances, by which I presume you mean hosts)?

Well, certain substances of a consecrated nature. On the premises. To be removed for clinical tests.

[BrainGlutton]

Originally Posted by dropzone

No, it's only gold plated, like a cheap necklace from WalMart. Not worth stealing at all.

But it's worth a movie! Godzilla vs. the Gold-Plated Monstrance!

[kanicbird]

Originally Posted by BigT

Yes, it's typical kanicbird, and as typical kanicbird, it makes sense if you (1) think about it in fundamentalist theology terms* and (2) don't assume he's spouting nonsense.

All he said was that no church is 100% right, that all of them have a mixture of good (God) and evil (Satan). And that, when Christians realize this, that's when things will get better.

*It isn't fundie theology, but he does use the same terms. Well, that and a few New Agey ones. It's just typical salad plate religion, with an emphasis on Christianity.

Wow that is pretty cool

[Steken]

Originally Posted by the_diego

There's nothing wrong with saying you're the true church of Christ or God but saying flat out that other churches are pagan or, at the least, not of God or Jesus is, I think, un-Christian.

I disagree.

Practically all Christian groups throughout history have considered it extremely important to separate what they consider "true" Christians from "false" Christians, and to crack down on heretics, pagans, "wolves in sheep's clothing" and the like.

Scholars like Wouter Hanegraaff and Jan Assmann have written a great deal about this. I can recommend some books or .pdf's, if you'd like.