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  #1  
Old 02-13-2013, 12:53 AM
Jim B. Jim B. is offline
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Addressing An Ex-Pope.

The mother of a reigning queen is called the Queen Mother. Since she is still royal, she will be addressed as "Your Royal Highness" all her life. Being a president of the United States or, say, a judge, is a title of high honor. You will be addressed that way for the rest of your life (unless you acquire a greater honor somehow). Etc.

So how then do address an ex-Pope? This question is more important and more relavent than you might think. Someone, poss. on these boards, may want to send (almost) ex-Pope Benedict XVI an email or a Tweet some day. I know I did once. So how should they address His Holiness when they do?

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Last edited by Jim B.; 02-13-2013 at 12:55 AM.. Reason: Typo.
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  #2  
Old 02-13-2013, 01:08 AM
Monty Monty is offline
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As the man is an ordained priest and is no longer a sitting bishop, I'd go with "Father" as the way to address the dude.
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  #3  
Old 02-13-2013, 01:16 AM
Lord Feldon Lord Feldon is online now
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According to this article, we don't quite know yet. It seems he'll definitely be a bishop, but he may or may not be a cardinal.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim B. View Post
The mother of a reigning queen is called the Queen Mother.
Only if she's a queen herself. The "queen" in queen mother describes the mother, not the child (who could also be a king). Queen Victoria just had a mother.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim B. View Post
Since she is still royal, she will be addressed as "Your Royal Highness" all her life.
Since she's still a queen, she would be addressed as "Your Majesty."

Last edited by Lord Feldon; 02-13-2013 at 01:17 AM..
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Old 02-13-2013, 01:29 AM
Monty Monty is offline
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Originally Posted by Lord Feldon View Post
It seems he'll definitely be a bishop, but he may or may not be a cardinal.
That's right. He's ordained to the office of Bishop, but is appointed as a Cardinal. He remains a Bishop.
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  #5  
Old 02-13-2013, 01:31 AM
Giles Giles is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Feldon View Post
Only if she's a queen herself. The "queen" in queen mother describes the mother, not the child (who could also be a king). Queen Victoria just had a mother.
The title "Queen Mother" was a tltle invented for the widow of King George VI, partly because there were two Queen Elizabeths after 1952. The normal title is "queen dowager". For example, after 1837 (when Victoria became queen) Queen Adelaide was queen dowager, since she was the widow of King William IV -- Queen Victoria's uncle.
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  #6  
Old 02-13-2013, 01:32 AM
Tom Tildrum Tom Tildrum is offline
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I have seen "Pontifex Emeritus" suggested.
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  #7  
Old 02-13-2013, 02:01 AM
Lord Feldon Lord Feldon is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Giles View Post
The title "Queen Mother" was a tltle invented for the widow of King George VI, partly because there were two Queen Elizabeths after 1952. The normal title is "queen dowager". For example, after 1837 (when Victoria became queen) Queen Adelaide was queen dowager, since she was the widow of King William IV -- Queen Victoria's uncle.
It's not normal to use "Queen Mother" as a personal title, but the concept of a queen mother goes back farther than 1952. Queen Mary was sometimes called the "queen mother" during her sons' reigns, but she was never formally called Queen Mary The Queen Mother.

Last edited by Lord Feldon; 02-13-2013 at 02:02 AM..
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  #8  
Old 02-13-2013, 04:27 AM
the_diego the_diego is offline
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Originally Posted by Jim B. View Post
Being a president of the United States or, say, a judge, is a title of high honor. You will be addressed that way for the rest of your life (unless you acquire a greater honor somehow). Etc.
Nearly all elected and presidentially appointed positions are lifetime titles --except that of the president. Former presidents are addressed as "Mr."
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  #9  
Old 02-13-2013, 06:02 AM
Nunzio Tavulari Nunzio Tavulari is offline
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Ex-Benedict. They're not just for breakfast anymore.
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  #10  
Old 02-13-2013, 06:28 AM
Zakalwe Zakalwe is offline
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Bennie
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Even if he's not living there, I would imagine they'll pass it along...
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  #11  
Old 02-13-2013, 06:33 AM
Colophon Colophon is offline
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"Yo, Joe!"
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  #12  
Old 02-13-2013, 09:36 AM
CalMeacham CalMeacham is offline
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Originally Posted by Tom Tildrum View Post
I have seen "Pontifex Emeritus" suggested.
Interesting and probably the most defensible. "emeritus" means "veteran" or "retired", and has plenty of precedent in Professor Emeritus. "Pontifex" was the old title for the Roman religious head before the Christian Church, with "Pontifex maximus" being the highest-ranking. The Christians just adopted it as a reasonable and established title.



What's interesting is that "Pontifex" has been interpreted as "Bridge Builder", which seems to be its meaning by construction*. So the title, which seems to mean "Retired Pope" wouild literally mean "Retired Bridge Builder."


An arguable, if metaphorical, title for a successgful ex-pope.



*This seems pretty straightforward sand obvious, but I'm surprised to find there are alternative theories. I probably shouldn't bem, anymore. see here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pontifex_Maximus

Last edited by CalMeacham; 02-13-2013 at 09:36 AM..
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  #13  
Old 02-13-2013, 10:20 AM
pravnik pravnik is offline
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Heard on the radio this morning one of the suggestions being considered is "Bishop of Rome Emeritus."

Last edited by pravnik; 02-13-2013 at 10:21 AM..
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  #14  
Old 02-13-2013, 10:26 AM
Dr. Drake Dr. Drake is offline
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That would be clearer in Latin—"Rome Emeritus" sounds that it's not the Eternal City after all, but it still has a bishop. Why not "Bishop Emeritus of Rome"?
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  #15  
Old 02-13-2013, 10:29 AM
Procrustus Procrustus is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the_diego View Post
Nearly all elected and presidentially appointed positions are lifetime titles --except that of the president. Former presidents are addressed as "Mr."
Perhaps that's the way its supposed to be, but in practice you commonly hear "President Clinton" or "President Bush" even after they left office.
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  #16  
Old 02-13-2013, 12:07 PM
alphaboi867 alphaboi867 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Feldon View Post
...Only if she's a queen herself. The "queen" in queen mother describes the mother, not the child (who could also be a king). Queen Victoria just had a mother...Since she's still a queen, she would be addressed as "Your Majesty."
And that only applies to former queens consort (ie the wife of a king); a queen regnant who abdicates is not a queen mother even if she's the mother of the current monarch. For example Queen Beatrix of the Netherlands is abdicating on April 30; afterwards she'll revert back to being "HRH Princess Beatrix of the Netherlands" just like her mother & grandmother did when they abdicated. Or how in the UK King Edward VIII became "HRH the Prince Edward", (& was later created Duke of Windsor).
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  #17  
Old 02-13-2013, 12:26 PM
Darth Panda Darth Panda is offline
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Holy Grandfather.
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  #18  
Old 02-13-2013, 12:29 PM
moriah moriah is offline
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Originally Posted by Colophon View Post
"Yo, Joe!"
He's German, so you would pronounce it as 'yo yo!'
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  #19  
Old 02-13-2013, 12:35 PM
DrCube DrCube is online now
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Originally Posted by the_diego View Post
Nearly all elected and presidentially appointed positions are lifetime titles --except that of the president. Former presidents are addressed as "Mr."
Current presidents are also addressed as "Mr.". I'm pretty sure "Mr. President" is how you address ex-presidents too.
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  #20  
Old 02-13-2013, 12:35 PM
Simplicio Simplicio is online now
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IIRC, "Bishop Emeritus" is the title of any bishop over 80 (other then the sitting Pope, obviously), and its tradition to tack on the name of the Bishop's last see to the title, so "Bishop Emeritus of Rome" seems like the title most in keeping with tradition.

On the other hand, the idea of the Pope as "just another Bishop" has a lot of historical baggage, and Benedict and many of the Cardinals might see the ex-Pope taking a title that would fit in with all the other retired Bishops out there as reinforcing that idea.
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  #21  
Old 02-13-2013, 03:41 PM
md2000 md2000 is offline
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The Ex-Pope Formerly Known As Benedict?

If you don't know what to call him, just say "Hello..."
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  #22  
Old 02-13-2013, 03:46 PM
pravnik pravnik is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr. Drake View Post
That would be clearer in Latin—"Rome Emeritus" sounds that it's not the Eternal City after all, but it still has a bishop. Why not "Bishop Emeritus of Rome"?
I think there probably should have been a comma in mine: "Bishop of Rome, Emeritus" which I guess is close to/the same as "Bishop Emeritus of Rome."
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  #23  
Old 02-13-2013, 03:50 PM
Elmer J. Fudd Elmer J. Fudd is offline
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Herr Ratzinger?
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  #24  
Old 02-13-2013, 03:50 PM
Amateur Barbarian Amateur Barbarian is offline
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I'd hazard a guess that "Mein Fuhrer" is right out.
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  #25  
Old 02-13-2013, 05:48 PM
Senegoid Senegoid is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Tildrum View Post
I have seen "Pontifex Emeritus" suggested.
Here?
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  #26  
Old 02-13-2013, 06:05 PM
the_diego the_diego is offline
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Originally Posted by DrCube View Post
Current presidents are also addressed as "Mr.". I'm pretty sure "Mr. President" is how you address ex-presidents too.
Definitely not. It will remind them of ex-prez' being called "president" while they were in office. That will miff anyone.
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  #27  
Old 02-13-2013, 07:12 PM
Bosda Di'Chi of Tricor Bosda Di'Chi of Tricor is offline
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"'Lo, Pope".


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  #28  
Old 02-13-2013, 11:21 PM
Tom Tildrum Tom Tildrum is offline
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Good thinking, but no, I saw it somewhere else. Commonweal, perhaps.
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  #29  
Old 02-14-2013, 12:28 AM
UDS UDS is offline
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Originally Posted by Simplicio View Post
IIRC, "Bishop Emeritus" is the title of any bishop over 80 (other then the sitting Pope, obviously), and its tradition to tack on the name of the Bishop's last see to the title, so "Bishop Emeritus of Rome" seems like the title most in keeping with tradition.
"Bishop Emeritus" refers to a bishop who has resigned his see, and of course most of them are over 80, but it's the resignation of the see, not the age, which makes them "emeritus". Bishop Francis Hong Yong-ho is 106, but as he has never resigned the see of Pyongyang (to which he was appointed in 1944) he still turns up in the official lists simply as "Bishop of Pyongyang". Brendan Comiskey, by contrast, has been Bishop Emeritus of Ferns since the age of 66.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Simplicio View Post
On the other hand, the idea of the Pope as "just another Bishop" has a lot of historical baggage, and Benedict and many of the Cardinals might see the ex-Pope taking a title that would fit in with all the other retired Bishops out there as reinforcing that idea.
As Tom Tildrum says, "Pontifix Emeritus" has been suggested.
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  #30  
Old 02-14-2013, 03:39 AM
Simplicio Simplicio is online now
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Originally Posted by UDS View Post
"Bishop Emeritus" refers to a bishop who has resigned his see, and of course most of them are over 80, but it's the resignation of the see, not the age, which makes them "emeritus". Bishop Francis Hong Yong-ho is 106, but as he has never resigned the see of Pyongyang (to which he was appointed in 1944) he still turns up in the official lists simply as "Bishop of Pyongyang". Brendan Comiskey, by contrast, has been Bishop Emeritus of Ferns since the age of 66
I thought the same rule change that kept Cardinal's over the age of 80 from voting also forced bishops to give up their sees at the same age, though some googling says the age is actually 75 (Hong Young-Ho is obviously a special case). But your right its the retiring and not the age that formally makes a bishop a bishop emeritus.
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  #31  
Old 02-14-2013, 04:49 AM
UDS UDS is offline
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Originally Posted by Simplicio View Post
I thought the same rule change that kept Cardinal's over the age of 80 from voting also forced bishops to give up their sees at the same age, though some googling says the age is actually 75 (Hong Young-Ho is obviously a special case). But your right its the retiring and not the age that formally makes a bishop a bishop emeritus.
Bishops are required to offer their resignations when they turn 75, but these are sometimes not accepted, or are deferred for significant periods. And they can, and occasionally do, retire before that age, usually due to a health problem.

Hong Yong-Ho is probably dead. He "disappeared" along with most of the clergy of his diocese in the late 1940s or early 1950s. It's theoretically possible that he is still alive in some North Korean re-education camp, but wildly unlikely. The Vatican still lists him as Bishop of Pyongyang in order to Make A Point; they've never found out what happened to him.
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  #32  
Old 02-14-2013, 07:33 AM
11811 11811 is offline
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Your Former Popeliness?
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  #33  
Old 02-14-2013, 12:56 PM
Dendarii Dame Dendarii Dame is offline
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Originally Posted by Lord Feldon View Post


Only if she's a queen herself. The "queen" in queen mother describes the mother, not the child (who could also be a king). Queen Victoria just had a mother.


Which bothered Queen Victoria's mother no end, by the way. (Victoria's mother was also named Victoria.)

By the way, re the "Ex-Benedict" idea: I'm sure there's a pun on Hollandaise/Holy Days in there somewhere.
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  #34  
Old 02-14-2013, 01:01 PM
alphaboi867 alphaboi867 is offline
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Originally Posted by 11811 View Post
Your Former Popeliness?
If he's not being made a cardinal (again) then as a bishop emeritus the appropriate form of address would be "Your Excellency" when speaking to him, and "His Excellency" when speaking about him.
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  #35  
Old 02-14-2013, 01:37 PM
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The & operator should still work regardless of pope status unless the memory he resides in has been freed.
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  #36  
Old 02-14-2013, 03:15 PM
Hail Ants Hail Ants is offline
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Definitely not. It will remind them of ex-prez' being called "president" while they were in office. That will miff anyone.
Here's Emily Post's rules, which sound pretty accurate (short answer, no, you don't call them Mr. President, you call them Mr. Lastname (Carter, Clinton etc.))

If the ex-Pope is considered a Bishop, would he be Bishop Benedict XVI? Or does that chosen name only apply to his, ah, Pope-ness and therefore rescind when he resigns?
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  #37  
Old 02-14-2013, 03:18 PM
tracer tracer is offline
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Ex-Benedict. They're not just for breakfast anymore.
I think we have a winner here....
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  #38  
Old 02-14-2013, 03:32 PM
tracer tracer is offline
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That's right. He's ordained to the office of Bishop, but is appointed as a Cardinal. He remains a Bishop.
But he won't be the bishop of Rome any more. In fact, he won't be the bishop of anywhere any more, as far as I know. He apparently gets to keep the title "bishop" even if he doesn't have any bishopful duties.

Which is useful if he needs to move diagonally, I suppose.
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  #39  
Old 02-14-2013, 04:51 PM
gigi gigi is online now
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Ex-Benedict. They're not just for breakfast anymore.
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  #40  
Old 02-14-2013, 07:42 PM
Alley Dweller Alley Dweller is offline
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From The Michigan Catholic:


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Asked what title Pope Benedict would use after Feb. 28, [Jesuit Father Federico Lombardi, Vatican spokesman] had said that was a question still being studied, but it seemed to him that the most accurate title would be “bishop emeritus of Rome.”
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  #41  
Old 02-15-2013, 03:27 AM
t-bonham@scc.net t-bonham@scc.net is offline
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So the likely options seem to be:
  • Pope Emeritus Benedict XVI, or
  • Bishop of Rome Emeritus Ratzinger
Right?
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  #42  
Old 02-15-2013, 03:34 AM
UDS UDS is offline
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Originally Posted by t-bonham@scc.net View Post
So the likely options seem to be:
  • Pope Emeritus Benedict XVI, or
  • Bishop of Rome Emeritus Ratzinger
Right?
The usual form is "Bishop Emeritus of X", not "Bishop of X Emeritus".

And, while Joe Bloggs may be described as the Bishop Emeritus of Wherever, he's usually just addressed as "Bishop Bloggs" or "Dr. Bloggs". If you're being very formal, he's referred to as "Most Rev. Joe Bloggs DD, Bishop Emeritus of Wherever"
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  #43  
Old 02-15-2013, 06:15 AM
Monty Monty is offline
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Here's an odd, somewhat related I guess, question: When did Popes (of each of the faiths that has a Pope) start taking on (for want of a better term) reign names?
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  #44  
Old 02-15-2013, 08:49 AM
Nava Nava is offline
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Regnal names, not reign names. And the first one was Simon, called Peter.

Last edited by Nava; 02-15-2013 at 08:51 AM..
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  #45  
Old 02-15-2013, 08:53 AM
Colophon Colophon is offline
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After "Your Holiness", might I suggest "Your Lowliness"?
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  #46  
Old 02-15-2013, 08:57 AM
Sampiro Sampiro is offline
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Holy Grandfather.
Reminds me a bit of Rodney Dangerfield- the former Satan before being succeeded by his son (Harvey Keitel)- in Little Nicky.

Which can only mean that Adam Sandler will be the first Jewish pope in almost 2,000 years.
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  #47  
Old 02-15-2013, 11:02 AM
t-bonham@scc.net t-bonham@scc.net is offline
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Here's an odd, somewhat related I guess, question: When did Popes (of each of the faiths that has a Pope) start taking on (for want of a better term) reign names?
Because an early Pope was named Mercurius, and he thought that would be confusing, since the Roman God Mercury was still remembered by many people. So he chose the name John II.
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  #48  
Old 02-15-2013, 11:43 AM
jayjay jayjay is offline
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<Ed Norton>"Hello, ex-Pope!"</EN>
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  #49  
Old 02-15-2013, 12:00 PM
CalMeacham CalMeacham is offline
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Originally Posted by t-bonham@scc.net View Post
Because an early Pope was named Mercurius, and he thought that would be confusing, since the Roman God Mercury was still remembered by many people. So he chose the name John II.
"Hi! I'm the new Pope, but many people still confuse me with the god Mercurius! That's why I carry the Roman Express Card. With the Roman Express Card, I'm no longer confused with a deity---- although I get treated like one."


The Roman Express Card. Don't leave domus without one.
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  #50  
Old 02-15-2013, 12:01 PM
senpai71 senpai71 is offline
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Current presidents are also addressed as "Mr.". I'm pretty sure "Mr. President" is how you address ex-presidents too.
When addressing a president or ex-president, one would typically use "Mr President" in the first instance and "Sir" in subsequent instances during the same conversation. When referring to a president, one should use "President X" (where X can be either the last name or first and last names). When referring to an ex-president, one should use either "President X" or "Former President X", depending somewhat on context and clarity.

It's really only in the modern era that we've had the situation with two presidents with the same name, e.g. the two President Bush's, where we refer to the first as "President George H. W. Bush" and "President George W. Bush". Of course, if Hillary Clinton becomes President, we'll have that whole thing again (although she will almost certainly be addressed as "Madam President" and referred to as "President Hillary Clinton".

It's incredibly disrespectful to refer to or address a President as anything other than by their title, at least in any official capacity.

Last edited by senpai71; 02-15-2013 at 12:01 PM..
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