Addressing An Ex-Pope.

[Jim B.]

The mother of a reigning queen is called the Queen Mother. Since she is still royal, she will be addressed as "Your Royal Highness" all her life. Being a president of the United States or, say, a judge, is a title of high honor. You will be addressed that way for the rest of your life (unless you acquire a greater honor somehow). Etc.

So how then do address an ex-Pope? This question is more important and more relavent than you might think. Someone, poss. on these boards, may want to send (almost) ex-Pope Benedict XVI an email or a Tweet some day. I know I did once. So how should they address His Holiness when they do?

[Monty]

As the man is an ordained priest and is no longer a sitting bishop, I'd go with "Father" as the way to address the dude.

[Lord Feldon]

According to this article, we don't quite know yet. It seems he'll definitely be a bishop, but he may or may not be a cardinal.

Originally Posted by Jim B.

The mother of a reigning queen is called the Queen Mother.

Only if she's a queen herself. The "queen" in queen mother describes the mother, not the child (who could also be a king). Queen Victoria just had a mother.

Originally Posted by Jim B.

Since she is still royal, she will be addressed as "Your Royal Highness" all her life.

Since she's still a queen, she would be addressed as "Your Majesty."

[Monty]

Originally Posted by Lord Feldon

It seems he'll definitely be a bishop, but he may or may not be a cardinal.

That's right. He's ordained to the office of Bishop, but is appointed as a Cardinal. He remains a Bishop.

[Giles]

Originally Posted by Lord Feldon

Only if she's a queen herself. The "queen" in queen mother describes the mother, not the child (who could also be a king). Queen Victoria just had a mother.

The title "Queen Mother" was a tltle invented for the widow of King George VI, partly because there were two Queen Elizabeths after 1952. The normal title is "queen dowager". For example, after 1837 (when Victoria became queen) Queen Adelaide was queen dowager, since she was the widow of King William IV -- Queen Victoria's uncle.

[Tom Tildrum]

I have seen "Pontifex Emeritus" suggested.

[Lord Feldon]

Originally Posted by Giles

The title "Queen Mother" was a tltle invented for the widow of King George VI, partly because there were two Queen Elizabeths after 1952. The normal title is "queen dowager". For example, after 1837 (when Victoria became queen) Queen Adelaide was queen dowager, since she was the widow of King William IV -- Queen Victoria's uncle.

It's not normal to use "Queen Mother" as a personal title, but the concept of a queen mother goes back farther than 1952. Queen Mary was sometimes called the "queen mother" during her sons' reigns, but she was never formally called Queen Mary The Queen Mother.

[the_diego]

Originally Posted by Jim B.

Being a president of the United States or, say, a judge, is a title of high honor. You will be addressed that way for the rest of your life (unless you acquire a greater honor somehow). Etc.

Nearly all elected and presidentially appointed positions are lifetime titles --except that of the president. Former presidents are addressed as "Mr."

[Nunzio Tavulari]

Ex-Benedict. They're not just for breakfast anymore.

[Zakalwe]

Bennie
Apostolic Palace
00l20 Vatican City State
Europe

Even if he's not living there, I would imagine they'll pass it along...

[Colophon]

"Yo, Joe!"

[CalMeacham]

Originally Posted by Tom Tildrum

I have seen "Pontifex Emeritus" suggested.

Interesting and probably the most defensible. "emeritus" means "veteran" or "retired", and has plenty of precedent in Professor Emeritus. "Pontifex" was the old title for the Roman religious head before the Christian Church, with "Pontifex maximus" being the highest-ranking. The Christians just adopted it as a reasonable and established title.



What's interesting is that "Pontifex" has been interpreted as "Bridge Builder", which seems to be its meaning by construction*. So the title, which seems to mean "Retired Pope" wouild literally mean "Retired Bridge Builder."


An arguable, if metaphorical, title for a successgful ex-pope.



*This seems pretty straightforward sand obvious, but I'm surprised to find there are alternative theories. I probably shouldn't bem, anymore. see here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pontifex_Maximus

[pravnik]

Heard on the radio this morning one of the suggestions being considered is "Bishop of Rome Emeritus."

[Dr. Drake]

That would be clearer in Latin—"Rome Emeritus" sounds that it's not the Eternal City after all, but it still has a bishop. Why not "Bishop Emeritus of Rome"?

[Procrustus]

Originally Posted by the_diego

Nearly all elected and presidentially appointed positions are lifetime titles --except that of the president. Former presidents are addressed as "Mr."

Perhaps that's the way its supposed to be, but in practice you commonly hear "President Clinton" or "President Bush" even after they left office.

[alphaboi867]

Originally Posted by Lord Feldon

...Only if she's a queen herself. The "queen" in queen mother describes the mother, not the child (who could also be a king). Queen Victoria just had a mother...Since she's still a queen, she would be addressed as "Your Majesty."

And that only applies to former queens consort (ie the wife of a king); a queen regnant who abdicates is not a queen mother even if she's the mother of the current monarch. For example Queen Beatrix of the Netherlands is abdicating on April 30; afterwards she'll revert back to being "HRH Princess Beatrix of the Netherlands" just like her mother & grandmother did when they abdicated. Or how in the UK King Edward VIII became "HRH the Prince Edward", (& was later created Duke of Windsor).

[Darth Panda]

Holy Grandfather.

[moriah]

Originally Posted by Colophon

"Yo, Joe!"

He's German, so you would pronounce it as 'yo yo!'

[DrCube]

Originally Posted by the_diego

Nearly all elected and presidentially appointed positions are lifetime titles --except that of the president. Former presidents are addressed as "Mr."

Current presidents are also addressed as "Mr.". I'm pretty sure "Mr. President" is how you address ex-presidents too.

[Simplicio]

IIRC, "Bishop Emeritus" is the title of any bishop over 80 (other then the sitting Pope, obviously), and its tradition to tack on the name of the Bishop's last see to the title, so "Bishop Emeritus of Rome" seems like the title most in keeping with tradition.

On the other hand, the idea of the Pope as "just another Bishop" has a lot of historical baggage, and Benedict and many of the Cardinals might see the ex-Pope taking a title that would fit in with all the other retired Bishops out there as reinforcing that idea.

[md2000]

The Ex-Pope Formerly Known As Benedict?

If you don't know what to call him, just say "Hello..."

[pravnik]

Originally Posted by Dr. Drake

That would be clearer in Latin—"Rome Emeritus" sounds that it's not the Eternal City after all, but it still has a bishop. Why not "Bishop Emeritus of Rome"?

I think there probably should have been a comma in mine: "Bishop of Rome, Emeritus" which I guess is close to/the same as "Bishop Emeritus of Rome."

[Elmer J. Fudd]

Herr Ratzinger?

[Amateur Barbarian]

I'd hazard a guess that "Mein Fuhrer" is right out.

[Senegoid]

Originally Posted by Tom Tildrum

I have seen "Pontifex Emeritus" suggested.

Here?

[the_diego]

Originally Posted by DrCube

Current presidents are also addressed as "Mr.". I'm pretty sure "Mr. President" is how you address ex-presidents too.

Definitely not. It will remind them of ex-prez' being called "president" while they were in office. That will miff anyone.

[Bosda Di'Chi of Tricor]

"'Lo, Pope".

[Tom Tildrum]

Originally Posted by Senegoid

Here?

Good thinking, but no, I saw it somewhere else. Commonweal, perhaps.

[UDS]

Originally Posted by Simplicio

IIRC, "Bishop Emeritus" is the title of any bishop over 80 (other then the sitting Pope, obviously), and its tradition to tack on the name of the Bishop's last see to the title, so "Bishop Emeritus of Rome" seems like the title most in keeping with tradition.

"Bishop Emeritus" refers to a bishop who has resigned his see, and of course most of them are over 80, but it's the resignation of the see, not the age, which makes them "emeritus". Bishop Francis Hong Yong-ho is 106, but as he has never resigned the see of Pyongyang (to which he was appointed in 1944) he still turns up in the official lists simply as "Bishop of Pyongyang". Brendan Comiskey, by contrast, has been Bishop Emeritus of Ferns since the age of 66.

Originally Posted by Simplicio

On the other hand, the idea of the Pope as "just another Bishop" has a lot of historical baggage, and Benedict and many of the Cardinals might see the ex-Pope taking a title that would fit in with all the other retired Bishops out there as reinforcing that idea.

As Tom Tildrum says, "Pontifix Emeritus" has been suggested.

[Simplicio]

Originally Posted by UDS

"Bishop Emeritus" refers to a bishop who has resigned his see, and of course most of them are over 80, but it's the resignation of the see, not the age, which makes them "emeritus". Bishop Francis Hong Yong-ho is 106, but as he has never resigned the see of Pyongyang (to which he was appointed in 1944) he still turns up in the official lists simply as "Bishop of Pyongyang". Brendan Comiskey, by contrast, has been Bishop Emeritus of Ferns since the age of 66

I thought the same rule change that kept Cardinal's over the age of 80 from voting also forced bishops to give up their sees at the same age, though some googling says the age is actually 75 (Hong Young-Ho is obviously a special case). But your right its the retiring and not the age that formally makes a bishop a bishop emeritus.

[UDS]

Originally Posted by Simplicio

I thought the same rule change that kept Cardinal's over the age of 80 from voting also forced bishops to give up their sees at the same age, though some googling says the age is actually 75 (Hong Young-Ho is obviously a special case). But your right its the retiring and not the age that formally makes a bishop a bishop emeritus.

Bishops are required to offer their resignations when they turn 75, but these are sometimes not accepted, or are deferred for significant periods. And they can, and occasionally do, retire before that age, usually due to a health problem.

Hong Yong-Ho is probably dead. He "disappeared" along with most of the clergy of his diocese in the late 1940s or early 1950s. It's theoretically possible that he is still alive in some North Korean re-education camp, but wildly unlikely. The Vatican still lists him as Bishop of Pyongyang in order to Make A Point; they've never found out what happened to him.

[11811]

Your Former Popeliness?

[Dendarii Dame]

Originally Posted by Lord Feldon

Only if she's a queen herself. The "queen" in queen mother describes the mother, not the child (who could also be a king). Queen Victoria just had a mother.

Which bothered Queen Victoria's mother no end, by the way. (Victoria's mother was also named Victoria.)

By the way, re the "Ex-Benedict" idea: I'm sure there's a pun on Hollandaise/Holy Days in there somewhere.

[alphaboi867]

Originally Posted by 11811

Your Former Popeliness?

If he's not being made a cardinal (again) then as a bishop emeritus the appropriate form of address would be "Your Excellency" when speaking to him, and "His Excellency" when speaking about him.

[Jragon]

The & operator should still work regardless of pope status unless the memory he resides in has been freed.

[Hail Ants]

Originally Posted by the_diego

Definitely not. It will remind them of ex-prez' being called "president" while they were in office. That will miff anyone.

Here's Emily Post's rules, which sound pretty accurate (short answer, no, you don't call them Mr. President, you call them Mr. Lastname (Carter, Clinton etc.))

If the ex-Pope is considered a Bishop, would he be Bishop Benedict XVI? Or does that chosen name only apply to his, ah, Pope-ness and therefore rescind when he resigns?

[tracer]

Originally Posted by Nunzio Tavulari

Ex-Benedict. They're not just for breakfast anymore.

I think we have a winner here....

[tracer]

Originally Posted by Monty

That's right. He's ordained to the office of Bishop, but is appointed as a Cardinal. He remains a Bishop.

But he won't be the bishop of Rome any more. In fact, he won't be the bishop of anywhere any more, as far as I know. He apparently gets to keep the title "bishop" even if he doesn't have any bishopful duties.

Which is useful if he needs to move diagonally, I suppose.

[gigi]

Originally Posted by Nunzio Tavulari

Ex-Benedict. They're not just for breakfast anymore.

[Alley Dweller]

From The Michigan Catholic:

Asked what title Pope Benedict would use after Feb. 28, [Jesuit Father Federico Lombardi, Vatican spokesman] had said that was a question still being studied, but it seemed to him that the most accurate title would be “bishop emeritus of Rome.”

[t-bonham@scc.net]

So the likely options seem to be:

• Pope Emeritus Benedict XVI, or
• Bishop of Rome Emeritus Ratzinger

Right?

[UDS]

Originally Posted by t-bonham@scc.net

So the likely options seem to be:

• Pope Emeritus Benedict XVI, or
• Bishop of Rome Emeritus Ratzinger

Right?

The usual form is "Bishop Emeritus of X", not "Bishop of X Emeritus".

And, while Joe Bloggs may be described as the Bishop Emeritus of Wherever, he's usually just addressed as "Bishop Bloggs" or "Dr. Bloggs". If you're being very formal, he's referred to as "Most Rev. Joe Bloggs DD, Bishop Emeritus of Wherever"

[Monty]

Here's an odd, somewhat related I guess, question: When did Popes (of each of the faiths that has a Pope) start taking on (for want of a better term) reign names?

[Nava]

Regnal names, not reign names. And the first one was Simon, called Peter.

[Colophon]

After "Your Holiness", might I suggest "Your Lowliness"?

[Sampiro]

Originally Posted by Darth Panda

Holy Grandfather.

Reminds me a bit of Rodney Dangerfield- the former Satan before being succeeded by his son (Harvey Keitel)- in Little Nicky.

Which can only mean that Adam Sandler will be the first Jewish pope in almost 2,000 years.

[t-bonham@scc.net]

Originally Posted by Monty

Here's an odd, somewhat related I guess, question: When did Popes (of each of the faiths that has a Pope) start taking on (for want of a better term) reign names?

Because an early Pope was named Mercurius, and he thought that would be confusing, since the Roman God Mercury was still remembered by many people. So he chose the name John II.

[jayjay]

<Ed Norton>"Hello, ex-Pope!"</EN>

[CalMeacham]

Originally Posted by t-bonham@scc.net

Because an early Pope was named Mercurius, and he thought that would be confusing, since the Roman God Mercury was still remembered by many people. So he chose the name John II.

"Hi! I'm the new Pope, but many people still confuse me with the god Mercurius! That's why I carry the Roman Express Card. With the Roman Express Card, I'm no longer confused with a deity---- although I get treated like one."


The Roman Express Card. Don't leave domus without one.

[senpai71]

Originally Posted by DrCube

Current presidents are also addressed as "Mr.". I'm pretty sure "Mr. President" is how you address ex-presidents too.

When addressing a president or ex-president, one would typically use "Mr President" in the first instance and "Sir" in subsequent instances during the same conversation. When referring to a president, one should use "President X" (where X can be either the last name or first and last names). When referring to an ex-president, one should use either "President X" or "Former President X", depending somewhat on context and clarity.

It's really only in the modern era that we've had the situation with two presidents with the same name, e.g. the two President Bush's, where we refer to the first as "President George H. W. Bush" and "President George W. Bush". Of course, if Hillary Clinton becomes President, we'll have that whole thing again (although she will almost certainly be addressed as "Madam President" and referred to as "President Hillary Clinton".

It's incredibly disrespectful to refer to or address a President as anything other than by their title, at least in any official capacity.