I know Pope John Paul 2 was born Karol Wojtyla.
I know the popes pick the name they will go by.
My question is…
If an intimate friend walks by and calls out to him…does he say hello John!
Or hello Karol?
I imagine that intimate friends and family call him by his given name Karol, in much the same way that Edward VIII (later the Duke of Windsor) was known as David to his family and friends.
I think intimate friends of the Pope call him “Your Holiness” or whatever is equivalent in that person’s language. Maybe if his parents were still alive, they would call him by his given name, but I doubt anyone else would feel comfortable doing that.
I imagine it’s been a while since there has been a pope chosen who has a living parent.
He’s the Pope. He doesn’t get to have close friends anymore.
I don’t believe that.
Everyone has close friends. Where you let down walls. Even if they are Cardinals.
A google search has turned up people who are identified as “close friends” of Pope John Paul II. However, I still doubt that anyone sits down with him and calls him “Karol”. The only person I could imagine doing that would be someone who was in the seminary with him or possibly a sibling.
I just don’t think the Pope lets down walls around him. It’s not a job you can ever leave behind. Even the President of the United States gets more down time.
John Paul Eleven???
There’s a similar situation in monasteries: When you join a monastery, you choose or the abbot/prior chooses for you a “religious name” (I’m not sure if this is the individual monk’s choice or not; it may depend on the order). Everyone in the monastery, and most folks you meet thereafter, will then refer to you by that religious name. I would imagine that the Pope’s assumed name has the same status as a monastic name, and I would also imagine that most of his close associates are clergy. So I would suspect that most of those folks would call him John Paul. The only people I would imagine would call him Karol would be laypersons whom he knew well prior to becomming Pope.
That’s what I suspect as well. You’d have to be a relative, or a friend from way back when, to think of him as Karol. Most people, even most of his friends, would think of him as John Paul.
In any case no one refers to Kings/ Popes by their regnal name. I.e if you are, for instance, The Duke of Edinburgh and you outlive The Queen, your son will be called King George VII. You (and a few others) will call him Charles, everyone else will call him your Majesty/Highness, and no one will say “Oh hello George”.
So no one would ever say “Hello John Paul”, if you are a close family member/old friend you might call him Karol, if you’re not that close you call him Your Holiness.
If/When the Pope retires, what would his name and title be? Would he revert to being a cardinal under his old name? A cardinal under his papal name? “Pope emeritus”?
It’s a bit moot as he won’t retire - they don’t. Presumably he is still a Cardinal as well as a bishop, monseigneur and priest too. If he were to retire I imagine his title would revert to “father” as it is after all what he is, a priest, albeit an exalted one.
When a Cardinal retires, he’s still referred to as “Cardinal.” After a president leaves office he’s still “Mr. President.” I can’t imagine a retired Pope being called anything other than “Your Holiness” and “former Pope JP2.”
Actually, presidents who have left office are properly referred to as “Mr. Ford” or “Mr. Clinton”.
According to Judith Martin (Miss Manners), the only American titles that officially stick with you are “Governor” and “Ambassador”. Thus, George Aiken, after he left the Senate, was usually called “Governor Aiken”. Elliot Richardson is still correctly referred to as “Ambassador Richardson”.
Sure, they don’t usually, but there’s nothing stopping them from doing so. Just because a Pope hasn’t abdicated voluntarily since 1294 doesn’t mean it’s impossible.
Actually, I thought the deal was that you don’t refer to former presidents as “Mr President” because there can be only one president at a time. Instead, you refer to them by their former non-unique title (usually the highest former title). The example given in her column was of someone who met Jimmy Carter on an airline flight. She said he could be referred to as Gov. Carter or Mr. Carter.
In the case of George Aiken, presumably the governorship is higher rank than senator.
As noted, the title of Governor is a “sticky” one. Hence, Governor Carter. Had Carter been a Senator instead of a Governor, he would NOT be called Senator Carter after leaving the presidency.
As an American and a democrat, I object to treating government job titles as personal honorifics. I never grant anyone a title other than “Mr.” (or “Ms.”) in face-to-face communication.
Do you mean no one addresses them by their regnal names? Because, so far as I can tell, people refer to them by their regnal names all the time.
Elliott Richardson is more properly referred to as the late Elliott Richardson since he died six years ago.
George Bush I was both an ambassador and a governor before he became president, but I’ve never heard anyone refere to him as Governor Bush or Ambassador Bush. Did becoming president “demote” him back to a Mr?
By “George Bush I,” I assume you mean George H. W. Bush. He had been a U.S. representative from Texas, chairman of the Republican National Committee, director of central intelligence, special envoy to China, ambassador to the United Nations, and vice president of the United States, among other things, but he was never governor of anything.