Why Is a "Real" Limb Worth more Than a Prosthetic Limb

I am an amputee. I had my right leg chopped off above the knee in an industrial accident in 1986. I am fine. My topic is strictly about medical insurance coverage for prosthetic devices.

I currently have a C-leg, which is a microprocessor controlled knee prosthesis (please Google it, amazing) which allows the wearer to walk almost normally and engage in everyday activities and achieve a high quality of life. The difference between “computer knees” and passive walking knees to the above knee amputee is unreal. I could not function without the C-Leg.

So as is the same I said to my boss a few weeks ago when I knew it was time to get a new prosthesis. I am a carpenter at the local Air Force Base. If I went into your facility, you would not even notice i had a fake leg.

Now to my point. I need a new prosthesis, which costs $45000, and my medical insurance pays $3500. This is common with prosthetic limbs around the country. Another tradesman at my company broke his leg, real leg and has been outta work for a year and told me his bills are over $100000 and insurance pays the usual 80 percent.

So, if I cant afford a new fake leg, I am in a wheelchair, why is trearment for a real leg worth more?

A prosthetic limb is classed as “durable medical equipment”. Right or wrong, it sucks.
WAG-fixing a flesh leg is (hopefully) permanent. A prosthesis is an ongoing, lifetime expense.

Why? Not trying to be a dick, but why? Say you break your leg badly and can hardly walk and have to have surgery every few months, and are on crutches and so forth for a year. You are covered if you have employer covered insurance

Once I get my new C-Leg, I can actually walk miles in a day, go do my job as a carpenter, go up and down stairs foot over foot, tote drywall and plywood, hang doors, and do they exact same job as you. But I am not covered.

Not giving you shit, but that is why I posted this thread, why is your leg worth more than mine?

I did break my leg badly. Got hit riding my bicycle. Spent two months in the hospital, several surgeries, wheelchair/walker for almost two years.
Came very close to getting a C-Leg of my own. Total bill was over a million.

I really can’t explain why ins. companies do what they do but there must be a financial advantage to them to do it this way.

Thanks for the reply and I apologize for getting worked up. I hope you are doing well. I am just in the midst of this and fighting with my insurance co and missing work. Again sorry for being a dick.

I still would like some replies though on my overall premise.

Not a problem, it’s a touchy subject.

thanks pat. amazing we have been in on the sdmb this long huh? 12 or 13 years?

Is your old leg still worth anything if you would sell it?

I’m not missing a zero there? They pay less then 10 % of the cost?

Are any of these books useful if you want to fight the companies decision?

Could you get a second hand leg from someone who died of other causes?

Could you get a second hand leg from someone who died of other causes?

Can’t sell an old prosthesis because they are custom fitted to the stump. but I do save a couple of old sockets, which is the rubber liner an above knee amputee uses to fit the stump into, in case say the zombies attack.

Would be happy to tell you how a prosthesis works for an above knee amputee. BTW, You are not allowed to call a stump a stump. Under current Politically Correct Terminology, my stump must be called “residual limb”.
Take that as you will.

Thank you for your interest. I acctually did get my first c-leg off ebay. 7 years ago when I went to Sabolich.

Google Scott Sabolich, he had the blades Pistorios ran on 10 years ago. I was at the clinic when they were pioneering running blades, they took me into the lab.

I don’t care. Right now I am off work trying to come up with 45 grand for a new fake leg. Say you break your leg. If you have work insurance you are covered generally on an 80/20 plan. I dont get shit.

You might think, “Of course they cover a fake leg” Nope. So tell me why health insurance should not cover prosthetics, Look it up.

I expect that a lot of it is due to premiums being based on “historical data”. C-legs are relatively recent and they get lumped with everything from Long John Silver’s pegleg to Pistorius’ bouncy legs: the companies tend to pay the cost of a pegleg because until yesterday that was the only option. They created the tables a long time ago, and they just keep bringing them forward without checking out whether those tables are logical under the current situation.

The first part is similar to my situation of being unable to get malpractice insurance: there is no data on people from my profession being sued for malpractice, so insurance companies here don’t know what the risk is, so they don’t offer that coverage. What actually happens is that it’s a low-risk profession when it comes to malpractice, people sue for other reasons (breach of contract is the most common cause). The second part is similar to the fact that if I change addresses (and therefore voter record) within Spain’s territory or from Spain to abroad there are 30 days I’m unable to vote while the paperwork is processed, whereas if the original address was abroad the period is nine months: the law is the update of the update of the update… of a 1812 law. Yeah, back then paperwork travelled by muleback and boat, but not now!

I think Nava is onto the right track to the answer to Klaatu’s question, it’s the actuarial tables that define risk and percentages, and costs and payout benefits for the insurance companies. New, cutting-edge technologies might not be in those historical tables yet. It might take quite a bit of time before they do.

Do we have any actuaries here on the Dope? I would guess we do. Klaatu, you may want to start a new thread with something like “Any actuaries here?” and point them to this thread.

Just a suggestion.

It does suck, I agree, but I can also see it from the insurance company’s side. If they decide to cover 80/20 at a reasonable cost, then if they’ve underestimated their risk they could lose millions, maybe even billions on claims. That would suck for them, or for you if you owned the company or were a major shareholder.

Thanks for being sensitive to those of us who are (what’s the word?) full-bodied, or able-bodied. This is a touchy subject and maybe we’re not asking things or expressing ourselves in the most PC way. Thanks for your patience and understanding.

Thanks, too, for the term residual limb. A new coworker and new friend has one. She lost her left leg above the knee in a motorcycle accident. She doesn’t use a prosthetic. She uses crutches to get around. She always wears shorts, with her residual limb exposed - an interesting approach, I thought when I first met her. Maybe the prohibitive cost is at least part of the reason. I used to think stump, but now I’ll reprogram my brain to think residual limb. I never used the word stump when talking to her, Lord no. She is the one who opened up to me about how she lost her leg.

I’ll page Inigo Montoya, IIRC he’s an insurance adjuster (maybe that’s not the right term, but in any case, he knows how these things work).

ETA: Darn, he’s got PM deactivated :frowning:

Re: stump vs. residual limb: I’ll use whatever term the amputee prefers, as I think personal preference in these cases trumps political correctness.

I used to work for the Evil Insurance Empire, in the research department (meaning, the department that reads and analyses medical research, not a department that does such research) which was right next to the department that made recommendations for what should and shouldn’t be covered based on medical effectiveness. (Decisions on cost effectiveness were done elsewhere.)

The consensus was overwhelming that for working-age adults the C-leg was superior to prior types of prostheses. Now, there were some people who chose less sophisticated alternatives (for example, there was a gent who liked to go duck-hunting and the C-leg’s electronics would never have survived such a wet environment so he used a more primitive leg that, for the environment, worked better) and that was fine, but particularly for above-the-knee amputees the more advanced (and expensive) limbs were better.

Here’s the stupid thing: even the best and most comprehensive medical plans, the “Cadillac” insurance, only paid for a new limb ONCE at anything like reasonable coverage (say an 80/20 split). ONCE. Even though, as Klaatu says, these devices have only a limited lifespan. And the more active the person the shorter that span because the limbs got more use with highly active people and were more likely to be subjected to environmental damage. All the rationales for paying more initially for a C-leg - better mobility, fewer injuries from falling, more health from being more active, etc. would seem to justify paying to replace one when it wears out but apparently no one was willing to think that far.

Which brings me to the term “mindset”. I think, due to most of the people in the decision-making area being 50+ and able-bodied themselves (indeed, I recall one manager saying she’d never want someone with a disability in her department because they wouldn’t be able to handle it. What? It’s a desk job!) they still think of amputees as helpless old crippled people, view a C-leg as a “luxury” or something for the military to supply to young wounded soldiers (in other words, not their problem), and were utterly convinced that the vast majority of amputees were elderly frail diabetics who were so debilitated by age and disease that they wouldn’t benefit from a prosthetic anyway. A wheelchair was good enough for them, and not one of those fancy ones, a generic one should do just fine because didn’t those people have home care attendants anyway? If they weren’t already in a nursing home.

Being outside that mindset, and far too uppity for my own good in a corporate environment like that, I once did ask the “recommend coverage” people what they didn’t recommend replacement coverage. The first was response was that for most amputees they’d be dead from their disease before needing a replacement (I have no idea if that’s true or not, but it shows the mind set that amputee=sick old fart beautifully). OK… but what about the young/active amputees? Oh, she said, after 5 years or so they’d settle down, be done chasing after their young children, and wouldn’t need such a fancy limb anymore. Uh-huh. (Because young amputees won’t have more children because they don’t have sex or something? What?) Or, she added, their incomes would have risen because that usually happens as people get older (nevermind job discrimination - like her own department not wanting a cripple, right?) and anyhow, it was the amputee’s responsibility to save up for a replacement. If they wanted to replace their worn out prosthesis with a $50,000 limb then it was on them to save up $10,000 a year (or whatever) towards a new one. What if they didn’t make enough money to do that? Well, then, they need to get a better job! (Nevermind job discrimination…) Her attitude was that if you were young (meaning under 60) and disease-free and lost a limb you must have been doing something stupid and why should anyone but you have to pay for your recklessness? You were lucky to get the first one!

Aside from mindsets within the insurance industry, what so often gets lost is that it is not the insurance company defining what’s in your health plan it’s your employer who does that. And a plan that covers only 10% of the cost of new limb will have a lower premium than one that covers 80%, especially if there is an amputee on staff who will eventually utilize the benefit. The vast majority of people don’t care because they aren’t missing a major body part and cruise through life without imaging that it could one day happen to them.

For other medical insurance craziness: why isn’t dental coverage lumped in with general medical care? (Yes, I know it’s based on historical practice, that was rhetorical) Why are hearing aids almost never covered? Isn’t hearing an important sense?

From my viewpoint, a society has an interest in maximizing the ability of citizens to function but then I’m a crazy person in favor of universal health care, too.

Moved from General Questions to Great Debates.

samclem

Broomstick, thank you for the candid insight. And the mindset you describe infuriates me. That is exactly why I am sitting here right now. What gives a person like that the right to influence whether I walk or not. Or to determine what kind of work I do or my quality of life?

And as far as I know, virtually no insurance plan covers prosthetics to the extent needed unless it is specifically tailored to, which excludes most plans. Over the years, there has been legislation introduced to change this, and there might be a state or two that require full coverage. I am too irritated to look it up right now.

If it was an industrial injury, 100% of the cost of the replacement prosthesis would be covered under your employer’s workers’ compensation coverage. Were you self employed at the time? Did you settle your case?