In a trainwreck of a thread that’s already spawned a partner pit thread, we get this post:
I just reported it, but I’d like to have a discussion about it and its kin in that thread.
First, granted: several people clearly violated the ban on insulting other people in that thread. Their warnings were fairly given, I think.
But folks like Ibanez are saying some profoundly misogynistic bullshit as well. They’re going beyond expressing calmly-held bigoted viewpoints; they’re saying things that, behind a slight veneer of sarcasm, are designed to mock and denigrate a class of people.
This is, I think, jerkish behavior. Even if it doesn’t violate one of the more specific rules of the board, it violates the overarching principle of “don’t be a jerk.”
I’d like to see both this specific instance, and such behavior in general, treated harshly.
Edit: just noticed the original thread is closed. I hope that’s not done in lieu of a specific warning for Ibanez, as such behavior specifically needs to be called out as unacceptable.
I’m not going to read the entire trainwreck for context, so I’ll just take this OP at face value. I agree that in addition for warning people for things like “getting your panties in a bunch” or similar, we should both report it and start a separate ATMB thread.
I haven’t read the entire thread, and I don’t have time to read the entire thread, which I’ll admit should have been monitored much more closely as soon as it was started, to prevent just the kind of trainwreck it turned into. Sorry – I’ve got about a month’s worth of work I need to complete before Monday, I haven’t been on the boards for other than mini-breaks the last few days, and I’ve got stuff to do this afternoon for which I will be paid.
That said – not having read the entire thread, I am reluctant to single out any particular post and give a warning based on nothing more than a post report, since I have no idea what the context of the post is, in terms of the thread as a whole or of other posts by that user. Believe it or not, we don’t give warnings willy-nilly.
It is possible that one of the other MPSIMS moderators has a better sense of how that entire multi-page discussion went and whether or not that post deserves a warning; if so, said other MPSIMS mod may certainly come along and give that warning later. In other words, I’m not saying that the post doesn’t deserve a warning, just that I don’t know whether it does or not.
I didn’t read the thread either, but this board has always had Tourettes-like “witty” sexist comments followed by a smiley or a “<d&r>”. It would be nice to eliminate that garbage because it’s one of the worst things about this board’s culture.
Alledgely, we have a “don’t be a jerk” rule but lately I haven’t seen it. The Mods are quick to jump onto direct personal insults but anything indirect, no matter how loathsome and offensive, is apparently OK now. Truly, the level of outright bullying that goes on now is nauseating. And what went on in the two recent threads by Mean Old Lady really was bullying. So long as it’s couched in polite words apparently any level of misogyny, racism, and other forms of bigotry are now allowed. Why is it OK to be a bully here?
**
Is that the kind of forum the Straight Dope wants to be?**
Dressing it up as sarcasm is no excuse - and all too often the “oh, sorry, it’s just a joke/sarcasm/whatever” is way after the fact. It’s a tactic used by bullies to further torment victims with oh, you don’t have a sense of humor it’s all in fun. Sorry, if it’s fun for only half the participants it’s not fun. If someone is allowed to dismiss the words of half the human race because of their sexual organs it’s out of line. Just as out of line and offensive as ethnic slurs. Sure, we can discuss unpleasant opinions and viewpoints but we shouldn’t be putting them into play.
It’s not just staying in the Pit, either, it’s starting to seep into other parts of the forum.
A lot of the thread, apparently. Why do you feel able to speak about something you admit you know little about? Read the whole thread why don’t you and see if you can figure it out.
:rolleyes:
No, it’s not a genetic thing. It’s a cultural thing. Society tolerates “boys will be boys” and the damage done to women is just unavoidable collateral destruction because apparently it’s more important to salve men’s egos and appease their libidos than keep the physical bodies 51% of humanity safe from assault. And when a woman tries to talk about it in a supposedly open-minded and intelligent forum a lot of people think it’s perfectly acceptable to mock her for thinking no means no. In other words, blame the victim.
I really don’t see the smart-ass comments half as corrosive as the testimonials wherein posters admitting to successfully pushing women past “no” in order to get laid. How many were there, four? Five? Guys who claimed that women can be coerced into sexual activity after they’ve said no?
Consider the audience here. Some people reading these allusions to unethical and potentially illegal behavior will believe it and attempt to replicate it.
Can you clarify what you mean by “let it be”? Do you mean she should have smiled and giggled and tried as best as she could to usher him to the door while saying “oh you men” or should she have just given in and given him what he wanted?
If you reread my post, you’ll see I asked to be shown the alleged infraction of board rules. I didn’t see a rule violation. I really have no desire to read the entire thread to find the rule breach the OP reported.
I’ve not read the thread, and don’t intend to. By and large, insults directed against a group of people (race, religion, national origin, ethnicity, disability, and gender) are not acceptable here. However, a few points:
(1) The line between what’s acceptable and what’s not is often very, very fuzzy. A couple of examples:
It’s hard to have a discussion about sex scandals within the Catholic Church without some comments about religion creeping in.
It’s hard to bring up “I’m having marital problems” without some gender-comments slipping throught the cracks.
And so on.
(2) While moderators try to be diligent, we don’t (can’t) read every thread and every post. We rely upon the membership at large to REPORT potential rules violations (click on the little ! in the red triangle in the upper right corner of the post) so that the specific situation comes to our attention.
(3) We don’t want to be humourless. Some light-hearted “joke” phrasings may not be perfectly “politically correct” but neither are they offensive enough to merit moderator action.
(4)We do want to allow a wide range of opinions. The line between acceptable and unaccpetable is not always clear.
Aw, ladies, don’t get your panties in a bunch. Is it your time of the month? Now, don’t worry your pretty, little heads about it. The big, strong man will make it all better.
Um, Dex said I could say that. <d&r>
That’s fine. But some moderator needs to, given the comment about how things must be read in context.
I’m unaware of insults directed against women as a group being moderated. In my experience, it doesn’t happen. Am I wrong?
That’s why I mentioned, in the second sentence in the OP, that I’d reported it. I certainly think posts ought to be read in context; I hope that someone will do so.
I hope you don’t mean to imply that censuring folks who make bigoted jokes is incompatible with having a sense of humor. My entire point is that misogynist jokes as exemplified by the quote in the OP are not light-hearted, nor are they harmless: they are corruptive to the tone of the board.
I disagree with Troppus’s claim that the serious misogynist posts are worse. If they have content in them, as odious as it may be, the best response IMO is to address their odious content with well-reasoned, decent content. But when they’re snide bigoted insults, the correct response is to warn or ban the jerk making them.
The sarcasm and jokes are part of board culture. The serious haters are the problem. There are plenty of people in the world to hate for their individual words and deeds, I just don’t see the point in hating classes of people, and I think there are serious underlying problems in people like that.
This joke (Poster complains about X; someone “hilariously” does X in response to post) is so old and tired that it brings actual tears of boredom to my eyes. It is worse than a bad pun. If we are going to get rid of one thing from the boards, I vote for it to be this.
Actually, I happen to be a guy. I simply prefer not to sound like a homeschooled autistic who has “NO GIRLS ALLOWED” painted on his bedroom door (strange, I know…)
It’s always fascinating to watch, in real time, a poster, who hitherto had always been on the side of the angels—and more importantly, the predominant POV of these boards—suddenly experience the boards as a poster holding a minority viewpoint.
“My gracious! They’re skewering my point of view! We must have warnings and bannings forthwith!”
Welcome to what it’s like to be a conservative or a religious person (or as it’s known in board cant, a “theist”) on the SDMB! Not an entirely appealing sight, is it? Anyway, you’ll get used to it…
