The Fallen Blogger and the Spectre of Secularism

Secularist blogger Avijit Roy was killed in Bangladesh by hardline Islamists.

Yet another example of how the Islamic world is struggling to accept the inevitability of secularism.

To their credit, many Bangladeshis immediately took to the streets to protest the killing.

This is evidence of a major culture clash taking place in the Muslim world. The liberal secularists are tired of standards being dictated by religion and an increasing number of religious extremists want religion to dominate everything.

I talk often of how Muslims need to voice their anger at the hardliners who are destroying the image of their religion abroad. Avijit Roy was one of the precious few with the courage to do so.

How many more brave souls will face the cold steel of Islam’s Machete before the shallow tolerance of criticism is allowed?

He married a Muslim and she was attacked as well. So this was killing two birds with one stone situation for the Islamists.

Extremely graphic images -

Congratulatory messages on social media-
http://i60.tinypic.com/2zyd3ic.jpg

Sigh.

Secularism isn’t inevitable.

This is a comment that is yet another example of a commentator who knows nothing of the history of secularism in the islamic world and makes comments completely without worth.

I do not care if there is an inevitably about secular systems or not, as I think the statement makes no sense without definition, but it shows gross ignorance of what the secular history of the Islamic world is since the colonial period and makes grossly incorrect assumptions about what kind of systems the majority of muslims have actually experienced- which as rule are secular and not religious in basis.

In the Bangladesh like most of the islamic world the actual systems in place since the end of the colonial rule, itself usually ‘secular’ in a sense, are secular and that the “secular rule” experienced is at a base part of the problem. Too often the secular rule experienced is one that is characterised by gross corruptoin, by dictatorship (backed by the outsiders, whether the Soviets or the Westerners - especially Americans).

Comments like this are completely divorced from any political reality of the history and make the gross assumptoins that somehow the Muslims in majority have lived in systems like the saudi system.

Much of the islamist reaction is driven by disgust with the gross failures of the secular systems experienced, in the areas of political governance, of economic governance and the general devleopment - and as reaction to particularly large Western support to the “secular” dictators who play to the blind and ignorant prejudices like those of this OP.

I do not personally support the islamist reaction, they are wrong, but the simple minded ignorant idea that somehow muslims are blindly culturally revolting against secularism is so completely wrong as to make on laugh in hysteria at the ignorance.

No, it is evidence of the failure of the dictatorship based secularism supported in the past by both the Soviets and the West. to avoid the confusion and the doubt I do not say created by, but indeed supported by blindly often.

Complete ignorance stupidity that knows nothing of the history of the islamic world in the past 70 years.

this is complete nonsense and shows you are only fishing for examples to support a prejudice.

Since I doubt you speak any language but your English and certainly I doubt you know any of the major non western colonial languages of the islamic world, I do not see what position someone like you has to make statements like ‘one of the preciious few.’

The emphasis added. It is nice to see the real prejudice come through, and why people like myself who are secular have no trust in these kinds of calls, and why I despise them. I see where they come from and they are not supporting secular people, they are exploiting as a legitimisation of hatreds and bigotries.

Secularism or death. Those are the options, and extremist Muslims can only pick for themselves individually, plus maybe a few other people. As societies, the Islamic cultures have no choice but secularism. They haven’t the money/power/influence to change the trend.

Tolerance and secularism are not quite the same thing. Stalinists seeking to crush the Russian Orthodox church were secular as all git-out.

Oh excellent news, of course this is the system existing for almost all muslims for the past 50 years at least. It is also so good that white-man’s-burden is still existing and that the Islamic world’s choices are made by the persons outside of it and that actual democratic thought has no place, only fearful reaction.

This is correct.

The actual challenges is not that of “secular” systems against theocratic or other fantasy analysis that have no real understanding of the actual history - it is about the acceptation of the political system approach that is not the winner-take-all. And this is a problem of both the secularists and the islamists.

It is a completely different problem from secular against non secular and it is partly a heritage of the post colonial period of authoritarianisms and the colonial rule which was almost always authoritarian of course.

What is needed is more of the experience of integration of the political tendancies, like we have seen in the tunisian compromise. It is not “islamic acceptation” of secular government, it is the building of the acceptation of a compromise based political process. This is truly lacking.

But I can look to the history of the democratic system like in the French case - which the evolution from absolutist (secular or catholic or royalist, usually the final two allied) to compromise took all of the 19th century.

It is not an islamic world problem it is a problem of building a new political culture, and you can see it in many places.

If the number of religious extremists is indeed increasing, that would tend to suggest secularism is not in fact inevitable, would it not? I mean, I would hope it is, but…

Actually, not just muslims but anyone who objects to religious totalitarianism. But please be honest here, had you ever even heard of this guy before you happened to see the BBC article you linked to? I mean fair enough if so, but based on what I’ve seen of your output so far, I’m having a hard time believing you’re spending your time hanging out on Bangladeshi blogs. Which in this case, is in the local language.

I’m sorry, it’s a serious issue, but this reads like a parody of a blurb for a Danny Trejo action movie.

Mohammad don’t text.

Bangla (or Bengali) is the local language, and the blogger was a 2nd generation bangladeshi free thinker, his father being famous

  1. There was already a BBQ Pit thread about this here

  2. Post #2 reported for inappropriate content.

If this is not to be ignored, then it is necessary to note that it is quite distorting to imply the blogger was an unconnected American married to a Muslim, when in fact he was a Bangledeshi born person - of Muslim heritage - who became an American citizen and is the son of a well known Bangladesh secularist activist. Since the OP is from the region, this is hard to consider as an accident and seems deliberate and inflamatory (like some past references to “pakis”).

That’s it! I demand some sensible action! Something like holding Islam in general responsible for this!!

Why was there such heavy breathing in the first few posts?

How do you reconcile this:

with this?

[Moderating]
truthseeker, when linking to images of graphic violence, nudity, or other NSFW imagery, we ask that posters observe the “two-click” rule, meaning that it takes two separate mouse clicks to see the material in question. I’ve edited one of your posts to put a spoiler box around your links to bring the post into compliance with board rules. In the future, please do the same thing.

Lastly, I’m merging this thread with the existing Pit thread on this subject.
[/Moderating]

Anger at brutal death is easy. The hard work of rooting out the violent intolerant sectors of your society is the heavy lifting that the Muslim world seems lax to initiate.

For example, the poster in this thread who likes to call me an ignorant stupid mean-face has expended all of his or her energy blaming this on colonial white imperialism, as though this were a century ago.

Islam is scared to look itself in the mirror because it sees Danny Trejo lurking in the back.