Are there any studies that show a causal link between violent video games and agression?

Which is great and all, but then we end up here. With California saying games make people crazy and The Terminator is somehow leading the charge. If violent people are more prone to violent media, why do researchers continue to harp on what all game players are doing.

As I mentioned in the other thread, game playing has expanded to most adults and nearly 98% of kids under 18. It is impossible to lay any kind of blame on “violent games” when everyone plays them. If they caused any kind of change in behavior, we’d be living in Thunderdome by now… being chased by people wearing sheets… trying to pick up a whole bunch of drugs off the floor.

Once again, I suggest you read Grand Theft Childhood. It’s available on Google Books. The author’s critique of the noise blast test (and why it’s not even considered a valid research tool) starts on page 64.

It sounds like an interesting read, but I feel the need to point out that the study I linked to has nothing whatever to do with a noise blast test, and for that matter, was not even conducted in a laboratory.

Also, as I pointed out before, no one has ever come up with a convincing explanation for why, if noise blast tests are so worthless, there is consistent statistical significance between control and experimental groups. When you have a controlled study–any study–and your findings are statistically significant, that indicates that your independent variable had some impact on the outcome.

I’m sorry, I didn’t read the study you linked to. But the chapter in Grand Theft Childhood is directly related as it critiques Bushman and his methodology and how it has no basis in the real world.

Again, when 98% of all children/teens play video games, how can it be considered a causal reason for anything?

Because the test subjects are invariably college students getting paid pizza to blast their friends with “deafening noise”. Would you take it seriously? Would anyone?

This study tears apart blast tests (and Bushman and Anderson in particular) along with other idiocies when it comes to the violent video games debate.

It seems reasonable to me to conclude that if violent media can be shown to have some impact on violent behavior in a small minority, it probably leads to more aggressive behavior in the majority. So you are correct that this research has been politically hijacked/exaggerated to serve specific interests, but that doesn’t mean violent media has no appreciable impact on 98% of the population.

That is why subsequent research on this topic has involved documentation of the rise in narcissism and its relationship to aggressive behavior and violent media exposure.

The reality is that if little Johnny is in a safe, supportive, loving environment, but plays violent video games, he probably isn’t going to go shoot up a school. But he may be more likely to act like an asshole. Ya notice a proliferation of assholes lately? Ever drive in New Jersey?

Really? Studies on kids in youth violence detention centers have no basis in the real world?

I would love to read the arguments in ‘‘Grand Theft Childhood’’ but the link you provided only went up to page 34. I think the chapter you want me to read is ‘‘Science, Nonsense and Common Sense.’’

But let’s try this–and use some common sense to think this through. Are you familiar with the concept of exposure? It’s an extremely effective, well-established behavioral technique that involves exposing people who have certain fears or aversions to the thing they fear or have an aversion to. I have personal experience with the use of this technique and can vouch for its efficacy on both a scientific and personal level. Essentially, if some stimulus causes an averse reaction in an individual, the more frequently one is exposed to that stimulus, the less they have an averse reaction to said stimulus.

Exposure is also referred to as ‘‘desensitization.’’ Someone may have extreme discomfort associated with, say, corpses, but through repeated exposure to pictures of corpses, or perhaps visiting a morgue, or perhaps 10 years of working as an undertaker, they become desensitized to exposure to all things corpse-related.

Why, then, is the concept of desensitization as a result of violent media exposure so difficult to comprehend? Is it really such a logical leap that people who are exposed to constant images and implications of virtually consequence-free violence on a regular basis will become less uncomfortable with the idea of violence, so accustomed to it, that the prospect becomes less horrifying and shocking, and say, even, routine? To me it seems to absolute height of irrationality to suggest that an individual watching a graphic torture scene on an enormous screen while he scarfs down his popcorn, unperturbed, would not have some real word consequences as to his attitude toward fellow humans. This goes doubly for kids, because childrens’ brains are still in a constant state of cognitive and structural development. There is substantial evidence to indicate that one’s moral framework and social values are highly dependent on the immediate social environment you have as a child (See Marc Hauser, Moral Minds.)

The question–which is indeed open to debate–is how much, and to what extent, desensitization to violent media impacts real-world behavior. Does it make people into crazed violent sociopaths? Almost certainly not. Does it make them more likely to participate in road rage? Does it make them more likely to support a war effort? Does it make them more likely to bully other children? Given the evidence we have about general human behavior in the social environment, those are the kinds of questions we really should be asking.

In short, I think it’s ridiculous to exclude violence in the media as a possible environmental factor contributing to human behavior. Everything we know about humans and their environment points to the huge role that environmental factors play, generally, in childhood development. It is absolutely illogical to me to exclude media from this discussion just because I play violent video games and liked Kill Bill and happen to be a a really nice person.

Not a single study I have linked to involves tests on college students getting paid pizza, and they aren’t blasting their friends. They involve young children blasting people they don’t know, in the context of playing a game.

The study you linked to argues (accurately) that the actual significance of statistical significance is contextually debatable, and that effect sizes are a far more accurate measure of real-world implications. Luckily the research I described above specifically identifies the effect sizes in the outcome of the study. In fact, a lot of the issues raised in your study don’t apply to the research in question.

The criticism of publication bias and its impact on meta-analysis is valid. In fact, there are statistical methods of compensating for such bias, but I am uncertain whether they were applied in Bushman’s meta-analysis, and your linked article does not indicate either way.

For the record, I love skepticism, and the article you linked to seems very informative in terms of general research methodology and provides a much-needed scientific rebuttal to this topic. I genuinely appreciate your effort here and do plan to read that study in more detail.

Actually, no, I haven’t noticed that. And neither have most people.

The doom and gloom and people declaring our generation as ignorant, lazy, violent losers is, to use an old saying, hogwash.

Other issues involved in connecting media and behavior:

Observer’s paradox: simply by observing something, the number of acts increase. In terms of aggression, let’s say a school only counts “aggressive acts” as fights between students. However, when a researcher arrives and has to set criteria, they also include horseplay, verbal threats (even in jest) and typical playground games like Indian wrestling. Suddenly, the number of aggressive acts increases exponentially, and the researcher has a convenient reason: TV, video games, pro wrestling, etc. etc. etc.

Lack of a true control group: In any experimental study, there must be a control group. In the case of TV violence, the lifestyles of those who watch tv vs those who don’t are too different to compare. For example, a typical American teenager who watches 10 hours of TV per day cannot be compared to an Australian pygmy living in the bush.

Individual differences: Even between people, there are many other factors that influence aggression. Having brothers, for example, would inherently increase the number of aggressive acts. Another factor could be whether the parents used spanking or not. The multiple factors involved would be impossible to control.

Definition of “aggression”: Which of these situations are more violent:
a) showing a person shooting a gun.
b) hearing a person shooting a gun, offscreen.
c) not seeing or hearing the gun, but seeing the victim get hit.
d) seeing the dead victim after the shooter has left the scene.
e) seeing neither the victim nor the shooter, but only the crime scene.
f) same as above, but in a cartoon.

In all media, how can we say what was shown affects behavior, if there are many different ways of showing it? For example, the American Media Council routinely labels America’s Funniest Home Videos as the most violent TV show on the air.

Longitudinal vs Latitudinal studies: Usually, in terms of aggression, the best method would be to track a group of children over 10-20 years. This would address individual differences, and the older self and the younger self could be compared for real changes in aggressive acts (the longitudinal study.) However, because this is unrealistic in terms of funding and researcher effort, what usually happens is that a cross section of children at different ages in the same area are compared (e.g. 5, 10 and 15 year olds in the same district) and any differences between the groups are attributed to whatever the researcher wants to blame. As mentioned earlier, this method runs into problems with individual differences.

I’m not speculating on this phenomenon. There is an accumulating body of research that points to the rise of narcissism in U.S. society as well as the link between narcissism and aggressive behavior. IOW, we do have some evidence that there are more assholes in our society than there used to be.

That is kind of the thing, you see, because I really have no dog in this fight. I don’t have any children and I like video games. I just find it amazing the lengths to which people will go to ignore even the possibility that there could be some truth and validity to this research which has been replicated so many times.

The simple fact of the matter is, no matter how you spin it, there is some research to indicate that violence in the media has some significant impact on aggressive behavior in children. That body of research is still growing and results continue to be replicated.

The study you linked to, which purports to debunk the media-violence myth, uses very careful language and concedes the available evidence. Over and over your study uses statements to the effect of, ‘‘These studies do provide evidence for X and Y, however they overlook Z or fail to employ method C.’’ That’s good and right in the world of science – a good scientist will recognize what’s important or useful about a study while critiquing what’s not.

A rational dissenting response, based on the evidence, would be to say that the data is inconclusive. But that’s not what people say in these threads. They say absolutely, no way, this is obviously junk science, use your common sense, blah blah blah I can’t hear you.

Meanwhile, the media distorts the research to the opposite extreme, making ridiculous claims about the impact of violent video games.

Neither side is a realistic depiction of the actual science on this phenomenon. Despite the fact that I really should know better, I feel the need to participate here because there is actually a middle ground which is much closer to the truth than either ignoring the evidence or exaggerating its import.

It’s not that I’m ignoring the possibility. It’s that I look at the history of other things people shouted “Won’t somone think of the CHILDREN!” about and I wonder where the outrage is today for novels (not graphic novels, but book novels), rock 'n roll, Dungeons and Dragons, anime and god knows what else.

The fact that video games have gone beyond all of those things and are so accepted that everyone plays them is when its time to stop legislating them.

Isn’t the definition of “asshole” also evolving?

Folks tolerated (it seems to me) more “horseplay” out of young boys back when I was growing up than they seem to do now. A chest bumping and mild shoving match in the playground would have been settled without involving the parents. My (male) Gym teacher used a wooden oarshaped paddle to disipline us boys, completely unthinkable (if not outright illegal) now.

Our changing attitudes affect the way the similar type of data is categorised.

I didn’t read the other posts, but yesterday some scientist pesented the outcome of his study (six month study of 851 young gamers) into games, game addiction and violence. His conclusion:
Games in themselves are not addictive. Youngsters that get addicted to games (about 2 % of the total number of gamers) are usually predisposed to problems because of their lesser social skills and the resulting loneliness.
Excessive, addictive gaming is proven to lead to agression, but it makes no differeence if agressive games or non-agressive games are played.

Today’s “asshole” is yesterday’s “boys will be boys.”

You have a point, but ‘‘asshole’’ in the context I used it was specifically a reference to narcissism, and I think the definition of narcissism as a measurable personality trait has been fairly consistent throughout recent history. This is where my knowledge is shaky, but I think the research is showing that more people can be defined now as having narcissistic personalities than, say, people of the same age studied 30 years ago. That is using more or less the same metric. There’s a book that covers this topic. At least one of our Dopers has read it–maybe she can elaborate on the findings.

For the record, there is a very strong correlation between narcissism and aggressive behavior. Most school-age bullies have been found to score very high for narcissistic personality traits.

Of course, what causes this narcissism is still open to speculation. In the aggression lab, one theory that has been bandied about is that narcissism + violent media may be a particularly nasty combination, perhaps that they feed into one another in some way.

As far as the more general definition of asshole, I guess you could also argue that today’s society offers more opportunities to be an asshole than it did in the past. We know that anonymity ups the asshole factor quite a bit, which explains 4chan and driving in New Jersey.

On preview: Oh, goodness, Justin, I would never advocate that a video game be banned or restricted by the government. I am very anti-censorship. Parents have to make decisions about what their kids do. I just wish parents had access to a more balanced and nuanced perspective than what they get now. Since the media hype is obvious bullshit, I fear that most people conclude that the whole subject is bullshit and not worth consideration.

This is not a straightforward subject, there are so many factors, probably many that have never even been considered, that contribute to a youth’s decision to engage in violent or aggressive behavior. But as complex as the problem is, it matters.

Which is based on a presumption that being an asshole is an unhealthy thing. The ideal of the peace loving, charity giving, selfless person is probably more likely to be self-destructive than building a person who is cynical, keeps boundaries, focuses on his friends and family first and foremost, and doesn’t let people walk over him.

Yes, giving someone who is predisposed to acting like a jerk further encouragement towards acting like an asshole may be bad, but there’s no knowing who that is beforehand.

So games have ratings in the US but any minor can buy a game that’s rated “M” for mature? And (from the look of things) that’s defended under free speech?
This is bizarre.

While the studies linking gaming to violence are dubious at best, and I’ve lamented on these very forums that the games industry has been hampered by the “video games teh evilz” meme, it makes absolute sense that children cannot buy “M” rated games.

Could I release a “game” that is just a 90 minute real footage cutscene of a man sticking pins into his eyeballs? Would it need to have a disclaimer like Jackass?

How is the purported connection between violent games and youth violence different from the purported connection between cigarette advertising aimed at kids and youth smoking?

Children can’t buy M rated games. All retailers abide by the game ratings and they don’t sell them to children under the age listed as a matter of policy.

Obviously, all policies will not be followed at all times, but an FTC study found that stores enforce the ESRB ratings better than movie ratings and Parental Advisories on CDs.

Your game would likely be rated Adults Only and would be rejected by the three console makers. You could put it on the PC, but stores are cutting back on their PC game stock and the biggest chains refuse to carry AO games.

Ah, so by minors they mean 17 year olds (M rated apparently means 17+)?

I mean, I have googled this story but most of the links use the word children, and imply that freedom of speech means anyone of any age can buy any game, unless there is a specific ban.
Is this just the press trying to whip up hysteria?

See that’s the kind of thing that I have been complaining about on these forums.
I think even adult rated games are pretty tame and that the games industry has unfortunately had to hold to higher standards than other media.

I don’t really see the point of games like Manhunt, but adults should be able to buy such games easily and it shouldn’t be an issue, as it’s not to the level of, say, Saw.

Of course. As a matter of policy, every chain retailer in the country will say they don’t sell M rated games to anyone under 17. Just as movie theaters won’t sell tickets to an R rated movie to anyone under 17.

It is a system that has worked for decades, but because lawmakers are all old, out-of-touch idiots, they create a law in search of a crime (or in this case, a “crisis”).

OK, that’s great, but it doesn’t really apply to games. The AO is almost never used and the only difference between an M and an AO is the use of the word “prolonged” in the rating description.

The fact that platform creators don’t allow it and chain retailers won’t carry them effectively makes the AO rating a figurehead. It’s there to say, “this game could have been so much worse, so cut them some slack.” Much the same way the NC-17 is applied in the movie world.

It’s also not censorship, but that’s an argument for another time.

Funnily enough, a game adaptation of Saw was released last year. It was rated M.

A sequel was just announced and its debut trailer is two minutes of just a guy cutting out his own eyeball.

Well there’s a kind of self-censorship going on. While all media needs to be sensitive about causing outrage I feel that the games industry feels under closer scrutiny than others.

Hehe, it’s funny how close that is to my “ridiculous” hypothetical of a guy sticking pins in his eyes.

<off-topic>
It’s a shame what’s happened to the Saw franchise; the first film was an engaging thriller with occasional unwatchable violence. Unfortunately the makers decided early on that it was the latter that made it a success, and each film has shifted the balance increasingly in that direction.
</off-topic>

I have a real problem with this.

At the end of the day the statistics show a decrease in violence that tracks remarkably well with the advent of video games into society.

I realize that correlation does not equal causation. Nevertheless I would think if video games were a net boost to violence then researchers need to find something that was an even greater pull downward on violence. To my knowledge no one has suggested what that might be. In the absence of that evidence…or even theory…it might be supposed video games contribute to a downward pull on violence. Theory being kids are not in the street to get in trouble and instead at home as well as an outlet for aggressive behavior.

I have seen my nieces and nephews get amped up playing video games. I am not surprised that a researcher having kids play a violent game in the lab then says kids are more aggressive after playing. But then my niece and nephews, despite being more amped, are not going to kill each other.

Which comes to my complaint with what I quoted above. To say that “X” was a contributing factor wholly misleads on what is important. What leads a person to violence is likely many things so to say we must ban games because they contribute misses the point. Perhaps the kids ate a Twinkie before committing a violent act so we could say the sugar rush was a contributing factor that tipped them over the edge therefore we should ban Twinkies (or other sugary snacks). Basically which straw on the camel’s back broke it? We should therefore ban that straw.

It is absurd on the face of it.