Yikes! all of these questions are giving me an anxiety attack! :eek:
Just kidding!
Well, it turns out I don’t have to answer **NinjaChick’s ** post because I can just say, “Ditto, what **TwoTrouts ** said.”
Absolutely. Or, if I’m forced out of bed because my back is hurting (what normally happens) I hide sitting in the chair in my dark bedroom. Fortunately/unfortunately I’m self-employed and I had some other non-depression related health issues for awhile which kept me from working so I’ve got a large enough and talented enough staff that I really don’t have to be involved in the day to day work unless we’re really busy. Yes, it is always a constant struggle. I also wanted to mention that most likely I am also bipolar II. We’ve got a lot of controversy on that 'round here.
Hmmm… I’d be interested in hearing the opinions of other depressed folks on this one. Personally, not so much, really. I know that I had lots of self-love issues in the past, but I seem to have gotten that figured out. However, the depression still remains.
Nope. Before my big crash, I always subscribed to the theory of I’m tough and I can fix myself, therefore, I don’t need any meds or outside help. Since the crash, I’ve always been under doctor’s care, so I’ve never really been off of ‘prescribed’ meds.
I have never been ‘locked up,’ so I can’t compare. But that does sound like an interesting book. Overall, I’ve had positive experiences. My current doctor, who really is a nurse-practictioner, and I have been together since my early stages. I have had some issues with the doctor which she reports to. Fortunately, though, I don’t have to meet with her anymore.
I would definitely encourage others to seek help. Writing this thread is my own little way of promoting awareness and hopefully loosening the ‘stigma’ of mental illness.
As I mentioned, no, I’ve never been locked up with my comrades, but I do feel for them. Mental illnesses have always intrigued me, even before I knew I had one. I’ve not had too much involvement with mental rights groups, nor have I heard very much. If you’d like to expound in this thread, or send me a PM, I’d be glad to hear more. Looking into mental illness awareness causes and promoting them is a direction in which I’ve slowly been heading. [/sarcasm] If I weren’t so damn depressed maybe I’d have gotten further [\sarcasm]
Ha ha. Food is my drug. Like I said much earlier, unfortunately I never do seem to lose my appetite. I’m an emotional eater with emotional issues. Therefore, I am overweight.
Well, first of all, I cope by eating. Second of all, I have a fairly supportive family and boyfriend. It’s easier for my family, they’ve been through it all before. My bf, on the other hand, is new to this game. So he doesn’t necessarily understand all the nuances. Plus, I could start a whole other thread on this subject, he has limited vision and can’t always pick up on non-verbal cues the way people with regular sight do. He just tries to liken my problems to severe PMS because mostly all I’ll ‘let’ him see is lots of crying. We don’t necessarily discuss the inner turmoil, at least until it’s passed.
What kinds of music do you listen to? When you feel depressed do you listen to light, fluffy, upbeat music to help lift your spirits, or do you listen to dark, gloomy music to help justify the way you’re feeling? What about movies? Do you put on a comedy to cheer up or do depressing dramas or horror flicks or movies with unhappy endings appeal to you more?
Do you have frequent thoughts of suicide? How do you fight these thoughts when they enter your mind? Have you ever made any genuine attempts and if so, did you wind up in the hospital? (if this is too sensitive of a topic for you, I will understand).
This is more a general question than a specific one, but does anyone have any idea exactly how much of the population has been clinically depressed. It just strikes me that a lot of Dopers are going through depression or have been through it in the past, which doesn’t jive with my personal experience. I can honestly say I’ve never knowingly had any friends who have been clinically depressed, but could that simply be because depression is a condition that can be hidden well?
So I guess in specifics:
If it’s true that depression is very common, does it help you to know that the doctors you are talking to have basically “seen it all before”?
Is your depression outwardly obvious to those around you, or can you conceal your depressive mood fairly well?
I was diagnosed with severe major depressive disorder at age 18, though there’s no question I have been depressed all of my life. At my worst, I would refuse to get out of bed, have no motivation for going to class or work, refuse to bathe, eat, or generally do anything. Life was all about avoiding consciousness, for the most part. This was possible in the short-term by sleeping, or distracting myself with television or internet, and in the long-term by half-heartedly constructing my suicide plans. The reprieve from this generally lasted about one or two weeks, followed by another month or two months of severe depression. I was severely depressed at least 80% of the time. It is very hard to function when you don’t care about anything.
Depression is one of the most debilitating illnesses out there. It’s pretty hard to achieve fucking ANYTHING when you don’t care. Of everything I lost, that is what I resent the most. I graduated high school as Salutatorian (3.997 GPA) with a ton of extra-curriculars and 14 senior honors, all while working full-time as a financially independent emancipated minor. To go from that to someone who can barely hold down a job is one of the most humiliating things I have ever experienced. I can’t even think about it with out feeling profound shame.
All that shame of course, just feeds the depression. Then the depression keeps you from achieving, and the lack of achievement keeps you depressed.
I ended up being hospitalized once, four years ago, for suicidal ideation. I have only been dangerously suicidal a few times in my life, and this particular time I came within seconds of hanging myself in my college dorm room. I couldn’t stop crying for two days straight (I do NOT normally cry about personal matters.) I was terrified of my own self and my potential to hurt others with my death, so I made an emergency visit to my counselor and they sent for campus police to take me to the hospital. Being suicidal was a bit different than being flat-out depressed, in that it was an acute and urgent feeling pain that MUST END at all costs.
I now consider myself recovered, but have accepted that it is something I’ll have to live with for the rest of my life. Through CBT as well as just general hard work and understanding, I have put the pieces of my life back together. While I was depressed, I quit caring about school and work, relationships, and money. For example, I have 21 derrogatory marks on my credit report. For a perfectionist to allow anything like that to happen is big news indeed.
What I most wanted to contribute to this thread is what it’s like ‘‘after.’’
Now that I have learned the warning signs, how to address my distorted thinking, ways to change my behavior to prevent the downward-spiraling cycle, I have my life back–a degree, a job, a happy marriage, and exciting plans for the future. But there are permanent scars. I have actually had to grieve the loss of the past 6 years.
People tell me that my overall college GPA (3.6) is very good considering what I was going through at the time, but I have to live with the fact that I could have done better, and I could have learned more. I missed my chance to study abroad due to depression and anxiety. I also have two semesters of withdrawal marks. As mentioned previously, I have to learn to accept the things I did while I was depressed–the friends I lost due to the behavior they did not understand, the embarrassingly personal e-mails I wrote to professors, the credit I have to work so hard to repair, the job I was nearly fired from for not showing up to work, essentially the consequences for my past actions while I was not able to think rationally. I behaved in ways that now, as a healthy and rational person, leave me feeling truly baffled. It wasn’t me.
Having been depressed, and having been suicidal, is a traumatic experience in and of itself. I also believe it was traumatic for my husband (then-boyfriend) who had to live with me day and night. I could write a book on the shit he went through for me, on account of me, and the things he had to do that totally defy anyone’s perception of ‘‘romantic love.’’
Now I am just trying to move forward, but there is always this black terror inside that it could be that bad again. I would rather die than be so depressed again–which is a good thing, because it motivates me to stay on top of my shit. I still get depressed, obviously. I still have days I can’t get out of bed or whatever. But we just have to move on, carry forward, not look back. Now, If I spend a day in bed, I realize the next day I have to force myself to do something, even if it’s load the dishwasher. That will raise my mood a bit, and then the day after that maybe I can even leave the house. It’s all about staying on top of your shit even when you would rather die than get up and get dressed and interact with people. I’ve learned to ignore my feelings.
And don’t even get me started on the stigma surrounding all these issues–depression, anxiety, PTSD, anything. People tell you they want to hear about it, but they don’t really mean it. I have learned to keep that on the down-low in my personal relationships, but sometimes it’s hard. Even questions like, ‘‘How was your Thanksgiving?’’ are loaded for people like me. So I have learned to smile and lie.
PurplKid_Caterer, Olivesmarch4th, and anyone else who can respond,
What can those of us who care about someone with depression do to best help? I know it’s nothing I can fix. But, is there anything I can do? or NOT do?
That is the $1,000,000 question. The best thing I can say is, always be there. Just always be there. There’s not anything you can really directly do that is going to make everything all better, but just having someone at your side to remind you of the reason you want to stay alive can be priceless. Just be there and don’t patronize your loved one–don’t pretend you know what’s best for them, don’t try to control their moods or take responsibility for them, and don’t minimize the pain they are feeling.
Sometimes, I need my husband to give me hugs and snuggles and say, ‘‘poor sweetie.’’
Other times, I need him to directly challenge my irrational thoughts and give me a good kick in the ass.
Often, he does one thing when the other would have been more helpful. We’re still learning years later, but we’re getting better. Some days he is just so tired of my shit that he says, ‘‘I can’t deal with this tonight. I love you, but I can’t offer you the support you need right now.’’
Which is VERY good-- he takes care of himself. In this way he is a good model for mental health. You can help your loved ones by prioritizing your own mental health, knowing and clearly communicating your own limitations as a human being, and refusing to believe that your loved one is a lost cause. Just be there.
And, since severely depressed people often consider themselves a burden, make sure it’s always clear how much they give back to you. Remember and communicate why the relationship matters in the first place. It was very helpful, when I felt like a total burden, to be told how much joy and happiness and meaning I give to my husband’s life. I am now able to be more rational about the fact that our relationship is NOT one way–I am there for him in the same way, always, and he needs me.
Thank you, Olives, I really appreciate what you’ve had to say. I’ll have a few more comments and will answer the other questions tomorrow, as it’s been a loooong day at work today and I need some sleep.
I’ll join the thread as well. I’ve had severe bouts of depression on and off for a lot of my life. I’ve written a few threads lately about some of my struggles, but I’ll respond here more specifically about depression. (I’ll mention several threads, but not link to any. Just search for recent threads started me me.)
Depression and other problems run in my family. My mother has been depressed a lot of her (at least) adult life and has been on various medications for 40 years. One older sister was on an antidepressant for years but has recently stopped. The other sister is clinically diagnosed with a mental illness and receives disability from the government. My younger brother was diagnosed with bipolar, for which he refuses help and is homeless. My deceased father was most likely psychotic, although never diagnosed. I take Paxil and have for about 2 1/2 years.
In my recent thread, I talk about some of the crazy shit which happened in our family. Since we didn’t have any identical twins sent out of the family at birth, there’s no controlled studies to separate which problems were nature vs. nurture. It’s probably safe to say that there’s a mixture of both.
I felt like suicide on a number of cases, and went as far as taking dry runs on my motorcycle to where I planned on crashing it and taking box cutters and drawing lines on my wrist with the dull side. My counselor gave the term for that step, but I’ve forgotten it. I’m a good enough engineer that had I gotten to the next step, it wouldn’t have been attempted.
The pain can be miserable. I self-medicated with alcohol (and you can read about giving that up in a recent thread). I’ve always been able to work, although I get behind on paying bills and other steps for myself.
I’ll add some comments to some of the questions, and even though ** Purplkid_Caterer** has done a great job (and many thanks for this thread, by the way), I’ll give my perspective on it.
This really depends on the depressed person. For me, it’s a down feeling which lasts more than a day and then I start to spiral down. Longer ones would last for months and months before, but the recent one was about one month.
This is also a good question. I think that if my general stress level gets too high for too long, then I’m more prone to an episode. I haven’t identified enough early warning signs, but being able to do that may help prevent future problems.
Now as an adult, it’s always trigger by things, although I’m often not aware of what the trigger was until after I get out of the depressed state.
For our guest with a long user name:
Make more money so that it’s not most of your income. Therapy has been tremendously useful for me. I believe that I will be able to not need it on an ongoing basis soon, although there may be cases where it would be useful for a short period.
Back to Speaker for the Dead and an interesting question considering your user name.
Along with ** Purplkid_Caterer** it was always concrete thoughts. When depressed, I don’t have the energy for philosophical thoughts. Some people may conduct these exercises, which may be a way of self-medication perhaps.
This is the basis of CBT and is individual with each person.
I’ve spent more time in counseling working on anxieties and panic attacks since they are more of a daily problem so I’ll give an example from there. I would get high levels of anxiety (up to the equivalent to being on the wrong side of a loaded gun) over incidents which something in the present trigger a flash feeling of anxiety from the past. With my counselor, we decided that if there were a real physical danger present, it would be rational to have that much anxiety; otherwise, it was an irrational fear.
As an example of a real physical danger, we talked about the danger of being in the room with a tiger. When I started to get into that stage, I would actually look around the room for tigers, which should be pretty easy to spot. Once I showed my unconscious mind that there wasn’t a physical danger and then I would use self-talk to talk my anxiety down. That dropped the intensity level of the anxiety attack from 8s or 9s (on a scale of 1 to 10) down to 5s and 6s and then down to 2s and 3s.
I’m still working on the depression itself.
For depression fallout, I haven’t been able to read enough to form an opinion. However, one interesting quote from there.
which is exactly how not only did I grow up from before my first memories, but also from the left over shit which was internalized. I wrote in another tread how this was triggered by having to make a choice of which flavor of ice cream that I wanted to buy for myself.
Unless you’re in that situation, you can’t really imagine.
The more the merrier, but just don’t try to kill the tread, you’re not very effective.
In my case, we were not allowed to believe in ourselves, feel good about ourselves or our accomplishments and to always doubt our feelings and thoughts. If that is part of self-love, then there would be a 100% correlation to depression.
I think that olivesmarch4th has undervalued the potential worth of that. It would be worth billions of dollars in this could be answered. However, her answer is better than one I would be able to come up with.
This again is very individual and if a partner can learn to help recognize patterns and try various things, it is possible to help, although there are limits to what someone else can do. The other person needs to understand that they are dealing with someone who is depressed and doesn’t mean everything what he or she says. It’s not about the other person.
For the follow-up question, I used to push away people close to me when I was depressed, but I don’t now with my wife. That, and other progress I’ve made may be why my recent episode didn’t last as long.
For me, absolutely better of knowing. Something I’m good at reminding my mother and others with depression, (unfortunately not so good at telling myself) is that if it were another illness, such as diabetes, then there would be no question that you take the medicine and if things are too much, then you lighten up.
Since depression and other mental illnesses are not as well understood, and because the symptoms are not as clear cut, then there’s a lot more pressure to “just get on with it.” It’s hard for people to understand why sometimes you just can’t do this. This pressure is both external, from friends, family and society and internal as well.
I’ve got a good friend here who is an American. We were having a conversation and I broke down in tears. He’s known me for several years, and through other bouts of depression so he knows what happens with me. Still, his response was more “there will be ups and downs.” I can’t imagine that you would dismiss another type of illness so readily. Would you say to a friend who regularly gets bronchitis, “Oh, sick again? It’s just a cycle.” More likely to be sympathetic and wish them well soon. Since depression isn’t as well known, then people don’t know how to handle it.
Having it diagnosed at least can be helpful for the person, to understand what is going on. There are times, like my recent episode, which I’m still more in than I thought, that had I not understood that this was depression would have been too painful, as I would have thought that there was something wrong (such as a character default) with me.
For therapy, I’ve only experience talk therapy, or Cognitive-Based Therapy (CBT) Some previous counselors were helpful in that they helped me overcome some problems and other counselors just didn’t work out for me. One was a controlling type of person who reminded me too much of my father and it was a negative experience. My current therapist has been very useful.
I described the exercise when I would get overwhelmed with fear and anxiety and look for tigers. That would help me step back from the anxiety enough to calm down. (Anxiety of this type in one of the symptoms of depression.) Understanding what causes reactions and how to handle them is useful for me in managing depression. It’s not necessarily the magic cure, but it often helps keep things in check.
I’m not sure anyone has actually answered this question about actual attempts in an affirmative, so I’ll take a stab at it (::rimshot::). Yes, I have made one half-hearted and one very, VERY genuine attempt at suicide. I’m female, and we don’t generally go in for violent methods, so my personal choice was pills. The half-hearted try was with Vicodin, and the second try, I got more serious and mixed nyquil with sleeping pills. With the vicodin, I just woke up the next morning feeling pretty groggy. I knew right away that I hadn’t taken nearly enough. However, it kind of got the urgent need out of my system, and my second attempt wasn’t until about 3 or 4 years later.
So, the second attempt netted me a trip to the ER in which my stomach was pumped, they kept me under close watch for a while, then I was put into a psychiatric facility for the mandatory 72-hour observation. There was a moment about 24 hours after all this happened where it seemed like my thought process cleared up, and I was able to think straight for the first time in years. I thought to myself, “Well, that didn’t do me much good,” and I’ve never been suicidal since. Depressed? Yeah, but never as bad. I’m very, very lucky that I can control it with my lifestyle choices, and I have generally avoided any doctor who wants to put me on antidepressants.
The thing that really fascinates me is that before I really tried to kill myself, I seemed a lot better. I had purpose, and it made my life better, even if that purpose was to just kill myself. I cooked my friends dinner and we had a great time a few days before I made the attempt. I actually went to a movie earlier in the night before I did this. I had a boyfriend who attempted suicide while we were dating, and the same thing happened. We had a wonderful date the night before, then his mom called me the next day to tell me that he was hospitalized. I’ve heard that this is common, but I only have my own anecdotal evidence.
It’s been another crazy day here, but this question was poignant to me, so I’ll answer it before falling into bed.
ABSOLUTELY it helps! Once I realized that there was a name for what I felt and that I could be ‘fixed’ I was nearly elated. Therefore, I wouldn’t be/wasn’t better off not knowing, I feel like I am more in sync with the world now.
Sorry, too tired to continue… (Part crazy job, part depression sleep tendencies)
There are different kinds of depression. Mine is generally low grade but chronic. I’ve had depression since about 1962. From time to time I’ve had episodes when it has gotten really bad and I’ve had to be hospitalized. I think that’s happened nine times. The last time I watched TV and saw O.J. running from the law in his white Bronco. So, I’ve had some pretty good years since then.
I certainly don’t have very much self love when I’m going through one of those really rough times. But through the therapy I’ve had and the medications (generic prozac and cymbalta), I have learned some measure of self respect. I’m stronger than I thought I was.
It helped my self respect to find out how to control my anger by finally putting it in the right direction instead of in all directions. I learned how to cut some emotional strings that people had attached to me.
As the years passed, so did my old self-concepts. I began to treat myself the way I had always wanted to be treated by others. Hey, it works!
Remind the person that you know that depression is an illness and that it’s not his or her fault. Familiarize yourself with all of the symptoms so that you can point out that certain problems may be happening because of the illness. For example, if she or he becomes frustrated by not being able to concentrate, encourage him to cut himself some slack because that may just be part of depression.
Remind her or him to be patient about letting the medication work.
Depressed people are often very irritable. Don’t take it personally.
You can always ask if there is anything that you can do. You can also make suggestions. Sitting outside, taking a walk, giving a backrub, taking a shower, cuddling, reading aloud to the other person, watching a favorite movie, brushing her hair, etc.
Sometimes just a cold cloth over my eyes makes me feel better.
Don’t encourage alcohol or recreational drugs. They are often depressants.
What an appropriate thread for me right now.
I have a friend in NYC whose life is going to hell in a handbasket right now.
A litany of bad luck, illnesses and alcohol abuse have taken their toll.
I am the only person who calls him (every Sunday afternoon) to check up on him.
He is about to be evicted, his brothers have the similar problems and are living like pack rats in the family home. He went there last week to check his options and realizes he could not live there with them for lots of reason. (They too are alcoholics and suffer from depression.)
This week he was going to try Catholic Charities, the GLBT Center, Welfare, Social Services…it is getting dire. This has been ongoing for many years, and I have heard him getting worse and worse. He can hardly get out of bed now, goes out nights to gather cans and bottles to recycle for some money, and spends it on beer and the occasional bag of potatoes or dozen eggs and bread. He washes his clothes in the sink and hangs them to dry in the bedroom.
Although we haven’t actually seen each other in almost 15 years, he still considers me his best friend simply because I call him. Everybody else has given up on him.
I almost dread calling him this Sunday…I know that in the next month or two, he will be out on the street and I will never be able to call him again. I really can’t afford to help him out financially, and I don’t think it would be of any real help - just a band-aid on a much more serious problem and would only delay the inevitable.
He used to take Prozac, which helped somewhat, but can no longer get the medication. He recently mentioned his last option would be to check himself into Bellevue Hospital.
I know this is really late in the game, but do you have any final suggestions I can make to him?
I’m really sorry to hear about your friend. This is much worse than I personally have ever gotten, although I’ve had to deal with a younger brother who has (we believe) bipolar and won’t accept treatment.
At this stage, hospitalization sounds like the best option. I’d say to encourage him to do that.
