I have a question - you say you had some issues the first four months before you and the baby got the hang of it. What were the issues? Were they preventable? Do you have any tips for soon-to-be mothers? I intend to breastfeed but I keep hearing all these mysterious references to latching issues and knowing “tricks” - what tricks could there possibly be besides sticking your nipple in the baby’s mouth? Can you perhaps shed some light? I haven’t done a whole lot of research on this but it is frustrating to hear things like this and have no idea what people are talking about.
I have no boobs, but my wife likes Kelly Mom. And from what I gather they actually have researched based information.
I spent so much time lurking at misc.kids.breastfeeding that I almost expected to have problems. Keep in mind that the majority of mothers who chose to nurse will be able to do so with no trouble. However, some mother/baby pairs do have difficulty - it’s not always as easy as stick nipple in mouth. The latching issues that people refer to are problems with the way the baby attaches to and sucks on the nipple. Some babys have trouble figuring out how to do this, or place their tongue/lips in positions that either make sucking less effective or cause pain for the mother. The “tricks” refered to are ways to position the baby and the baby’s mouth to promote a good latch. Most people can’t predict whether they will have nursing issues before the baby is born (except possibly those with inverted nipples or previous breast surgery - someone feel free to correct me if I’m wrong).
Years ago when everyone nursed, new mothers could go to their mothers or sisters and get nursing advice/support. With the loss of nursing knowledge over generations, many people find lactation consultants or groups like LLL to be a valuable resource if nursing troubles occur.
I took a class offered through our birth center, read up on the internet (I like Kelly Mom, too), and had the book “The Nursing Mother’s Companion.” My first baby needed a little encouragement to open her mouth wide to latch on, and wasn’t enthusiastic about it for the first few days. Baby #2 latched on like she’d been a lactation consultant in a previous life.
Eh, don’t worry about it. And I say that as someone who had trouble. Chances are great - well into the 90 percents - that you’ll have no problem at all, and the little one will teach you exactly what to do. Don’t get yourself knotted up in anticipation of trouble, because, nature being what it is, anxiety can itself cause problems.
Mouse_Maven was terrified of nursing, didn’t even think she’d do it at all, and she and Mouseling are doing great, for example.
IF you run into trouble though, know that you’re not alone and you’re not a failure and it doesn’t make you a bad mother. It makes you a perfectly normal person trying something for the first time with another person who’s trying this for the first time and you might need some tips. Like what? Like different ways to hold the baby, different grasps on the breast to get the nipple to poke up at a different angle, that sort of thing. And IF you run into trouble, Kelly Mom is a great place to start. If that doesn’t do it, call your midwife or the hospital where you deliver and ask for the number of a local certified lactation consultant, or poke around on-line. They really can help.
And IF, after all that, you need to provide some or even all of your baby’s nutrition through formula, that’s okay too. Formula’s not the best choice for most of us, but it’s a perfectly good choice, and there’s no sense beating yourself up about it if that turns out to be the best choice for you and your family.
I ended up exclusively pumping for 14 months, and about 10 of that I was only able to pump half of what she needed and added formula to that and she drank it all through a bottle. I may be the only woman to take a bottle into a La Leche League meeting and survive to tell the tale!
You can always email me if you have concerns. My email’s in my profile.
From the name, I figured this was a modern temp wetnurse service. 
Wow UC, you must be a colonel in the La Leche League. 
My niece would curl her tongue up and suck on her tongue, so it sounded and looked like she was nursing, but she wasn’t.
Nothing worked, so my SIL, bless her stubborn little heart, pumped her milk for months, figuring “I’m going to get this in you one way or the other” and bottle fed her with breast milk.
For me, the hardest part was very early on, right after the baby was born. My nipples were not hardened, and every time the kids latched on I felt like someone was burning me with a red hot poker.
You get through it, but boy, it was rough.
Well, the baby’s lips need to be in the right position – out around the breast tissue, not in over his/her gums. And you definitely want the baby to get more than just the nipple in his mouth – just the nipple hurts!
My son (almost 4 months old now) has a high palate, which made starting breastfeeding a bit tricky – it took us almost a week to get the hang of it. What happened in our situation was this: the rooting reflex takes care of getting the kid to the nipple, but the sucking reflex is triggered by something touching the roof of his mouth. His high palate meant that he wouldn’t suck long enough to get my nipple to the roof of his mouth (which would make him keep sucking), so he would latch on, suck once or twice, and latch off, getting no food in the process. I had great nurses in the hospital, many of whom were also lactation consultants, but they all had different advice for me. So it was a few days before we got it figured out (with help). Once he learned, though – woah! He loves to eat (his 4-month checkup is next week, and I’m betting he’s at least 16 pounds).
Also, it was probably 6-8 weeks before I really felt comfortable with the whole process – like I knew what I was doing and so did the baby.
Breastfeeding, for a lot of women, is somewhat painful, especially in the beginning. The trick is discerning when it’s more painful than it should be, when you’ve never done this before and you don’t know what a reasonable amount of pain is! Most women have no trouble at all – the baby latches on a few minutes after birth and goes to town, with everything arranged just the way it should be. And some women have horrible times – it’s really important to have good support and to know what your resources are. For instance, the La Leche League in my area has a 24-hour hotline. I didn’t end up needing it, but I was so glad to know that it was there! I also love AskMoxie.org – here are her big breastfeeding posts: http://moxie.blogs.com/askmoxie/2006/01/breastfeeding_w.html
http://moxie.blogs.com/askmoxie/2006/01/breastfeeding_w_1.html
(Read the comments, too – a lot of people there have great advice! Former Doper hedra posts there a lot.)
Most women are fine, or have only a little trouble getting started, like I did. Just don’t be afraid to ask for help, even if it’s just from another mom who nursed! Sometimes knowing that someone else had that same issue can help you get through it.
We had tongue-tie and a forceful letdown, which led to her just holding the tip of my nipple, with her tongue rubbing it. She got enough milk because I was like a firehose, but my nipples were destroyed. Once we got her frenulum clipped, we also had to reform her bad latching habits.
I too like Kellymom, though it does espouse pseudoscience like homeopathy and cranio-sacral therapy. However, the vast majority of the info on there is excellent.
As **WhyNot **says, most people will do fine. Also, some babies can have every disadvantage in the book, and still have no problems.
That said, here is my “prescription” for maximizing your chances of breastfeeding success:
-
SUPPORT! Hopefully your husband or partner is supportive. Also, go to the next La Leche Leaque meeting near you. They LOVE having pregnant women attend, and not only will it give you a grounding in the basics, but you will also meet some leaders and have their phone numbers in your hot little hand in case of trouble.
-
Try to give birth with as few medical interventions as possible. Regardless of what OB/GYNs and anesthesiologists say, epidurals and injected narcotics do get to the baby, and can cause extra challenges like low muscle tone and sleepiness. Also, interventions tend to increase the risk of c-section, which causes all the challenges of epidural, plus pain for mom and infection risk.
-
Have the baby put on your chest, skin to skin (you can have blankets wrapped around you both to keep warm) right after birth, and ask that routine procedures be delayed till after the baby nurses. Usually newborns will self-attach (really!) within the first hour if they are allowed this opportunity.
-
Avoid artificial nipples, glucose supplements, and such. At some facilities this is easy, at others it means you and your husband/partner/doula have to watch staff like a hawk.
-
If your provider thinks the baby has a short frenulum (“tongue-tie”), have them clip it right away - it is very simple and safe, and makes a huge difference.
-
Use whatever nursing position works best, and try an asymmetric or “chin-led” latch to get baby on good and deep and spare your nipples any trauma.
-
However, don’t get too hung up on formal technique - if your baby latches on, you’re not sore, and your baby is pooping, peeing, and growing enough, even if your technique is all “wrong,” just keep doing what works for you.
Please PM me if you want any further details, or help finding a meeting! Obviously, I love talking about this stuff.
This is still one of the coolest things I have ever seen. (what can I say, I’m easily impressed) The moment Baby #1 was born and they placed her on my chest, she immediately started scootching up and wriggling to get to the nearest nipple. Human beings are amazing!
Now *that * is the piece of advice I wish I’d been told beforehand. I had a visiting nurse on day 3 criticise and try to correct the way I was holding my breast when offering to the rooting baby. She claimed the hold I was using wouldn’t point the nipple in the right direction. We weren’t having any nursing trouble, the baby’s latch was fine, and the way I was holding it was working just fine for us. I fretted unnecessarily over her comments for a while, then decided to leave well enough alone.
The first few seconds of nursing may be uncomfortable even if the baby’s latch is fine and all is well. This should go away in about 30 seconds, however, and gets better the longer you’ve been nursing. This is why I called my newborns “nipple sharks.” I was a little surprised to find this was still the case when I had my second baby a year after weaning the first. **WhyNot’s ** post about nipple pain in non-nursers makes that make more sense to me.
I must confess I do not understand why anyone would want to do this(BF for that long). Note I do not say that you should not do this. I really have no interest whatsoever in arguing over breastfeeding. Either you do it or you don’t–and I got mighty tired of the sanctimony shown by those for whom it becomes a religion (not directed at anyone here).
IMO, the feeding technique that Mom is most comfortable with is the best one for baby. Also, La Leche League people can be real zealots.
Anyhoo, I nursed all 3 of my kids, but the last one I did the longest–he was almost 7 months when I stopped. I wanted my body back. Not one of my babies showed any nipple cofusion–and the one who was exclusively breastfed was sick from age 4 months to age 4. He’s the one who got croup, RSV, bronchiolitis etd. Believe me, I believe in the efficacy of breastmilk and I’m glad I did it as much as I could for my own, but it’s not a panacea. It’s a method of nutrition.
I, too, have witnessed a small child, aged 3-4 yanking on his mother’s shirt, in public, and her giving a laugh and here we go… Discipline begins at home–to say it begins at the breast kinda leave Dad out of the picture, and it (to me) echoes of not so vanilla sex.
I really can’t say kudos to you because I think 4 year olds should be working through their tantrums etc in different ways. But that again is a matter of opinion.
Do you get the idea that I’m rather yuck about this? Tis true–but it’s none of my business. 
Thanks for the info guys! Something tells me I’ll be posting new mommy questions here. Dopers seem to be a much better search engine in terms of quality.
What about when to introduce a bottle? I have been advised to introduce a bottle as soon as possible in case of various things such as illness, injury, or infection rendering me unable to nurse, or the baby losing wieght and needing supplemental food, and being able to leave her with someone else if I have to for an emergency or whatever. What has been your experience?
The people who taught our various baby classes said to introduce a bottle around 5 weeks, ideally. Breastfeeding should be pretty well established by then, but the baby shouldn’t be so set in his/her ways yet.
Some babies just won’t take a bottle no matter what, though - don’t go out and buy a ton of them! And some are picky and will only take a certain bottle. If you have one that won’t take a bottle no-way-no-how, you can try a cup or a spoon. Some people go straight to a sippy cup! So you will have options. I tell you this not to discourage you in advance, but to give you solutions in advance – because I cannot tell you how giddy I am when I get time away from my much-loved son, even if (like now) I’m just at work or running errands. You WILL need a break from your sweet baby, even if he or she won’t take a bottle!
I’m trying not to get my back up here, but given these statements, and the fact that you don’t seem to have a question or a contribution regarding others’ questions, what is your purpose here? If you want to have a debate thread about longer than average nursing, whether LLL are Nipple Nazis, or whether “disciplining” one’s child equates to S&M, I’d be happy to engage you in the appropriate forum.
I’m trying to remain open, and answer questions from people with different experiences and points of view (for instance, my husband himself somewhat shares your wonder at why I would want to nurse that long), but the way you express yourself here seems a bit inflammatory.
Okay the boop wasn’t flapping but there was total boobage happening! I don’t hallucinate enormous swollen teats on strangers.
I don’t know what my problem is. You’ve made a very reasonable eloquent argument for extended breast feeding. Perhaps it’s because I come from a family of “hell no! The baby will just have to figure something out for themselves” when it comes to breast feeding (actually my older sister had a breast reduction and wasn’t able to but she says given the opportunity she probably wouldn’t have) my niece was collicky and gasy and screamed for three straight months from formula allergies. I wasn’t breastfed myself.
I know it seems insane especially coming from a biologist but breastfeeding at least when I think about myself doing it, seems so unnatural. (I know I know) I just can’t picture allowing a little monster to suck the life and nutrients directly out of my body (I think I’m missing the mom gene)
Breastfeeding in public and certainly a child that is old enough to ask for it just freaks me out. I don’t judge the individual I just don’t think I can make myself look at it while its happening.
My experience with one of my two kids and every kid that I’ve nannied or babysat for as a newborn (several dozen now) was that they were able to switch back and forth with ease no matter when the bottle was introduced, but that they would sometimes fuss and refuse the bottle if they could still smell or hear mom in the house. The second of my children had problems nursing, but I don’t think they were caused by nipple confusion - they were caused by my obnoxiously large nipples and her teeny tiny micropreemie mouth being a bad fit, mechanically speaking. But there are people who report “nipple confusion” and say you should never let your infant near silicone or rubber.
None of us, on either side of the debate, have any experience with YOUR child, however. 
I’d say it’s probably a good idea to give it a try during a nonstressful, nonemergency time maybe four or five weeks after birth or whenever you feel comfortable and secure in nursing. That way, if it doesn’t work and the baby refuses the bottle, you’ll have time to work out alternatives (finger feeding, spoon feeding, Haberman feeder, whatever) before it’s important that you leave the baby with someone else.
Many babies have their own opinions about what’s the best nipple shape, and you might have to try a few bottles to find what works best for you, but I really like Breastflow, from The First Years (available at Babies R Us). It’s a two piece nipple which makes the baby chomp as well as suck - nursers chomp, they don’t just suck - and the milk flow stops when the baby needs to rest, unlike a standard bottle that keeps dripping. I think it exercises the baby’s mouth more like breastfeeding. My daughter caught up six months of language delay in 1 month after switching to these bottles from Playtex. Since it’s very like the breast in use, it probably won’t confuse the sprog, either.
Pretty much what **stargazer **said. Try not to worry too much, as it is rare for babies to need supplementation, or for moms to have an issue that requires using bottles, and in any case, again, you can feed them without bottles (something you wouldn’t know from reading parenting magazines ;)) Some babies are vulnerable to nipple confusion, while some can get artificial nipples from day one and do great. If your baby is nursing well after a few weeks, there’s no need to be afraid of trying a bottle. Though your baby may always refuse a bottle from you (the stuff “on tap” being mere inches away!), and only take it from someone else.
lobstermobster, I appreciate your honesty! I’ll never forget watching Murphy Brown, when she had a baby, and she said how weird the idea of nursing is - “it’s like suddenly finding you can get bacon from your elbow!” If you ever bear children, it might change your point of view. They do so much weird and gross stuff to you during gestation and delivery, that nursing seems pretty tame by comparison. (Wait, did I just convince you never to have kids? IMHO, as weird and gross as it can be, it’s well worth it and a lot of fun.)
Most moms prefer to be very discreet and worry about the reaction of others in public, even when nursing newborns. So if you don’t judge people and basically just ignore public nursing, you’re already doing better than a lot of people do, and doing better than many mothers expect.
You’re not male, then.
Regards,
Shodan
I’m imagining this as a similar attitude to the one that some people have had toward sexual intercourse, especially in earlier, more repressed eras (or when they first find out about it as children). “Ewww, people actually do that? Well, yeah, I guess they must, or the human race would die out, but I can’t bear to think about it. Maybe they grit their teeth or lie back and think of England, and try to get it over with as quickly as possible.”