Maybe. The cynical part of me agrees with you, but the romantic in me says no. All of them took a step out of their comfortable roles and contemplated their similarities. They actually communicated with each other, even with people who normally they would only scorn. That day, things were different and they made connections. Perhaps those connections won’t pan out, but it does change a person, knowing that connection is possible with people who seemed, just yesterday, so out of reach. Might not matter tomorrow, but it will matter when their lives go on after high school.
FWIW, the exact quote is, “Wouldn’t I be outstanding in that capacity?”
eleanor, you make good points, but I just wanted to clarify something.
I should have specified that I attended Joliet West between 1984 and 1988. So I was 15 and a freshman when this movie was released. And if I knew where my yearbooks and old school papers were, I could prove to you the racial mix of the school, the balance as evidenced by the homecoming court (and we all voted for the king, queen and court members as individuals, so it’s not like they were appointed to give an appearance of being PC) and the unbalance as evidenced by the editorial that was published in the school paper after the fracas in the cafeteria that ended in police sirens.
I didn’t consciously bring expectations to it, but I did see it when it was new, and it was not the story of my life. I’m not saying that makes it a bad movie; I’m just saying it didn’t make it the best movie for me. Few movies aimed at teens in that era were reflective of my day-to-day experience. Not that they had to be, of course. (But I just thought of another one that made me say “OMG I know these people”: River’s Edge. (Well, except that I didn’t know anyone who killed his girlfriend.))
Also:
Yes, but…you’ve just described the majority of teenage girls. That’s how they tend to be, just like teenage guys tend to be loud and vulgar. I just don’t see a particular reason to hate Claire, because despite being what you said, she wasn’t mean or manipulative, which is not common to all teenage girls (but still found in too many of them).
I can understand her getting under Bender’s skin; I just think that too much was made of the diamonds and sushi, as if, had she been born into a middle- or lower-class family, she would have been wonderfully insightful and humble, and she was vain and naive only because her family was well-off. I’ve known, literally, trailer-park girls who were just as shallow, and I’ve known lawyers’ daughters who were kind and understanding of others. The “we’re all the same” message gets undercut when so many of the differences are directly tied to financial status. (IMO.)
Did anybody else watch this movie when I came out and have the (admittedly shallow) thought, “Damn! Why can’t my high school look like that?” That library was gorgeous and had a listening room, it was centrally heated and cooled, brightly lit, etc… My high school was a CCC leftover with window unit air conditioners that rarely worked and a librarian who had been the lunch room lady the year before and- LITERALLY- a set of the Encyclopedia Britannica written when LBJ was president (this was under Reagan).
At my high school all was socioeconomic class and race. First, second and third world mingled- there were kids on my schoolbus who lived in McMansions and kids who lived in what can only be called shacks (tin roof, unpainted board siding, etc.) and of course they never associated except for when the shackdwellers decided to rough up the middle class kids. Races were beginning to mix a bit but interracial dating was to early 1980s small town Alabama what gay dating is to 2005 Alabama- something you do only in secret and accept that you’re playing with fire if discovered.
So if you were to right the CLASS OF 1985 TWENTIETH REUNION script, what would you have happen with the Breakfast Clubbers? Have any of them seen each other since Reagan? Since all of the actors are alive let’s pretend all of the characters are as well. Did Bender end up in prison or going to college or do he and Claire have kids named Muffy, McKenzie and Skull? Did Brian burn out in college or blossom into a sex addict or did he pull a school shooting and go to prison? What does your crystal ball say?
I was 31 and was teaching when it came out. I thought it was great.
Fortunately, there are many different ways of growing up.
It’s been two decades since I saw TBC, so I don’t remember the individual characters well enough to guess what they’d be doing in 20 years. But I would expect their relationships with one another to have the usual half-life of high-school friendships and romances. 20 years out, none of them have seen each other in years, simply because that’s what happens to most HS friendships.
Rilchiam --this may sound offensive, but Joliet is to affluent suburban Chicago schools as Ferraris are to VW Bugs–whole ‘nother world. (not “dissing” Joliet, just sayin’).
I don’t question the racial mix of your school at all–I am just saying that suburban Chicago HSs were mostly white, upper middle class with some working class(white kids) etc–the one I went to was, at any rate. (not all suburban schools, obviously). I also think that Hughes wanted to penetrate that particular world–because in such a white bread commmunity, differences can be more subtle and obivous differences are very threatening to the whole.
I guess I wasn’t clear enough re Claire. She is so totally out of touch with possible differences in her peer group. Her whole persona is based on assumptions of her place in the world and her entitlement–she has never been challenged on the Princess mentality. Bender does that, but so does Brian. Are alot of adolescent girls like this? Yes-but isn’t she no more or less normal than the others?
Perhaps Claire is unfairly and harshly judged, but isn’t that exactly what she does to others? She goes further in her arrogance-she remains unaware of the personhood of the others unlike her. That’s probably why alot of folks (and myself at the time the movie came out) really had it in for her. Ally may be weird and acting out, but she sees other people, at least. Same with Brian and Bender. Andy-not so much, but maybe we let guys off the hook here re social skills and empathy? That’s not “right”, but it’s an explanation for the venom. Now I see Claire as an innocent baby who is just so clueless about so many things that will matter later.
I think that is true of ALL the characters–Bender sees them as “haves” who aren’t entitled to any pain or troubles, Brian sees Andy and Bender as physical threats (not without good reason)-I doubt he sees the softer side of either character at first. Andy sees Bender as a jerk and a loser; Ally sees Claire as a Barbie doll and Claire sees Ally as a loser freak.
To me, that’s one of the major points of the film. None of these characters has questioned their own assumptions about the archetypes the others represent to them.
Sadly, re their future, I think Claire nailed it when she says something along the lines of (to Andy),“Oh, you’ll maybe say hi to [Brian] in the hall, but once he passes by, you’ll say something mean about him to your friends so that they won’t think you actually like him.” I think she was right.
to his credit, Andy refutes that–and he may have enough referent power in his peer group to carry it off. I hope so–I hope he did.
Note: the above scene reveals a glimpse of the pressures that Claire has been under–and I think (now) may make her a more sympathetic character. In a way, she has been surviving the jungle of the teen girl social pyramid–never a pretty place.
Sampiro --my HS was just like that–down to the air conditioning, the media center and the vast hallways etc. It was built in 1959 and has pretty much been added on to and renovated constantly ever since*. Our local HS has a TV station as well as a radio station. The computer lab looks like something out of NASA.
It’s wonderful, but I wish that all HS had the same advantages.
*the only way in which the HS resembled the Gulag (with the exception of the mandatory 4 Trogdolyte teachers on every faculty) was the lunchroom. Oh, now they have salad bars and Cafe Mexicana…when I went it was mashed potatoes, gravy and pork fritters for $0.55 (oh, and milk!). It was prison food served by Klingons…
This film came out shortly after I left HS and when I saw it in the theatres, I just didn’t like it.
I felt the movie was trite. I was the only person I knew that hated the movie.
Not offensive at all! I appreciate you acknowledging that it IS a different world.
I mixed up my comparison, but you get the idea…
I went and rented this DVD and am going to watch it tonoc.
Most of this movie was filmed at Maine North, a.k.a. Maine Township High School North, in Des Plaines, Illinois. (Des Plaines is a NW suburb of Chicago.) I graduated from Maine South a few years before it was filmed. Same school district, but the school itself is in the adjoining suburb of Park Ridge. Both schools were built at roughly the same time. (North was a little newer.)
Imagine watching this movie, with the added bonus of having the library, lockers, paint scheme and too many other details to mention being virtually identical to your high school.
Except for one thing: The library that you see in the film was actually a set built in the gym.
Boo, hiss, Maine South! (just kidding)–I went to Homewood-Flossmoor around the same time.
I watched the movie last noc. Couple of thoughts.
First-this is a serious movie–there are a few humorous moments, but overall, it’s mood is somewhat grim. I had not remembered that. It’s an appropriate mood-and it’s wonderful that a film treats teens as serious people worthy of full attention (rather than comic relief or rebels etc).
Claire–Hmmm. I think I go back to my first impression of her. I still feel sorry for her, but. BUT. My “condemnation” of her stands. The last 10 minutes of the movie reveal her insecurities and inner pressures so well. She can’t stop being Claire, Princess of Stermer High.
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She basically dumps the whole assignment onto Brian. At least she doesn’t try to wheedle and toy with him.
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She “takes Ally under her wing”. Condescending from on high to make a new and improved Ally. Talk bout spreading largess to the populace!
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She offers herself to Bender. Knowing Bender, I hope she truly realizes what she’s gotten herself into. It will be her Calvin’s balled up in the front seat…
The only one she does not try to placate or manipulate is Andy–her social equal.
Now, we could look at this another way. Claire could be offering up all that she has (which ain’t much given that she’s so shallow) in a spirit of being nice or charity or whatever.
That might explain Ally’s makeover.
It does not explain her assigning Brian the work for the whole group, nor does it explain her interaction with Bender. It could be a mix of the two–trying to show her true niceness to Ally, but also manipulating Brian and Bender. I dunno.
Things I had forgotten or never noticed:
the subtleties of the film. There are so many side glances, so many small hand gestures (not the Finger)–this is a small, quiet film-you have to pay attention to get the whole story.
Vernon-ugh and yuck. I think he may shade into two dimensions, but there is more than enough reality there for me. If anyone says that they never had a teacher like Vernon–that all their teachers were concerned with molding young minds and fostering academic success in their students, I will need to politely excuse myself from their “reality”. It is so sad that he thinks he can gain control of the kids by such means. But, I had deans like him (even down to the suits), a few teachers like him (not so many) and at least one principal. Sad, petty people, meteing out judgements for some obscure reason.
Vernon is unjust, over the line, out of control himself. He should not be a teacher, hands down.
I had misremembered the bit about the $50–for some reason, I had Claire asking for change and Vernon resenting that. I think that Vernon is caught by surprise by Carl the Janitor’s cynicism. Or maybe it’s just one cynic meeting another.
Closet scene–even scarier now that I am an adult and a parent of teenagers. Sadly, Vernon is correct when he says to Bender–“who will believe you?”. I noticed the vulnerability and pain in Bender’s voice as he tells that joke out loud to himself to take his mind off the insanity that just occurred. (I also want to know the punchline of the joke!).
Ally’s character is by far (to me) the most interesting. I wonder if she remains confortable with her new look for long. Alot would depend on Andy, there.
One last thing: Brian’s mother is a bitch. I am surprised he doesn’t bring it up at all–the pressure she puts on him. He mentions the pressure for grades, but doesn’t get personal about it. I like Brian the most–most likely because I can see him blooming in college into a good looking, sensitive guy–afterall he appreciates Moliere (sp?) in HS!
Sorry to maunder on–anyone have any thoughts on my thoughts?
[hijack]
eleanorigby, I’m curious about something, and I don’t want you to take it as a criticism in any way.
I’ve noticed that you very frequently write “noc” instead of “night.” Do you have a Polish heritage, perhaps? I just think it’s interesting that you make this substitution quite frequently, but you write perfect English (I assume you’re a native speaker) and don’t make any other word substitutions that I’ve noticed.
[/hijack]
Dammit-I forgot my salient point.
Claire needs–NEEDS-to be approved of–looked up to. So much so, that she offers what she can to the others near the end of the film. IMO, in no way does her reaching out this way imply that she will return Brian’s “hi” to her in the hallway on Monday or recognize Ally as a person etc. Bender remains a question mark in my mind. However will she explain him to her friends? Perhaps that is the most Claire can grow.
This need for social elevation means she cannot see lateral moves within her social context, nor can she take the risk of stepping off the path and being just Claire to her friends or the Breakfast Club. I think she thought (if it were consious at all) that “well, I’ll do this for her and that for him and that’s the best I can do.” She doesn’t see that she could cement a TRUE social elevation by removing herself from the box of Princess. In a way, she is like Vernon–maintaining a rigid approach when flexible one is needed.
Thoughts?
I think you make a very interesting point. In the normal course of events, she wouldn’t bother to deal with Allison, Bender, or Brian, because they are not people whose opinion she values. They are beneath her in the social hierarchy, therefore they “don’t count.” However, in the context of the movie, she is able to see them as worthy human beings and she starts to care about what they think of her. Thus, she reaches out to them with whatever resources she has and tries to ingratiate herself with them.
I don’t think this is a conscious manipulation on Claire’s part; rather, I think her eyes were opened and she finally sees people outside her circumscribed little peer group as people worth knowing, whose respect she wants. Will she still want it on Monday? Who knows? That would be the true test of her character. If she can remember why she liked them on Saturday, and how awful it feels to realize that you’re a conceited snob who’s been missing out on all these cool people she never bothered to know, then maybe she will change.
Yes, Claire is hard to like, but she’s also to be pitied. People like that, if their eyes are never opened, live their whole lives wondering why they feel so hollow all the time. At least she was able to open up to the Breakfast Club and be real with them; she could just as easily shunned them, and gotten Andy to do the same. I think there’s hope for her yet.
That’s a good point, Ruby --but I am afraid I had a more cynical motive in mind for Claire. She says that people like Brian etc look up to her and her friends. I think she just wants to restore that hierarchy–she does this by telling Brian what to do (and Brian plays right into her hands), by “helping” Ally look…more like Claire! Bender is her growth, IMO. And what a way to go… :eek:
Zagloba --somehow I missed your post yesterday. Sorry. No, I am not Polish or Eastern European. I use “noc” because that is the abbreviation for night in medical charting and it’s quicker to type.
Maybe I should stop, since you’re about the 5th person to ask me if I’m Polish or Hungarian!
All WASP–Irish (orange), Scottish and English here…
I’ve been reading this thread for days. I graduated HS in Central FL in 91. I definitely recognized the cliques in the movie (add the fact that we had Rednecks), although at my HS it wasn’t like death if you went outside the lines.
I myself was more like Brian, but I had friends from every group. Some of the more popular people in our class were Honors students. I was on the volleyball team and salutatorian, and the valedictorian was the princess/cheerleader. My first boyfriend was like Bender.
Maybe by the time I got to HS we had seen TBC and had realized how dumb the cliques were. We knew they were going to exist, but we all learned to co-exist with them.
Remember this was 1985, long before school shootings became fashionable.
Hungarian? That’s odd. The Hungarian word for night isn’t even close–it’s éj (“night”) or este (“evening”).