samarm, find a dictionary. your definitions are decidedly out of whack. tanookie was a victim of incest AND child abuse. one does not preclude the other.
Hey, samarm, I’d guess it’s worse when it’s daddy. Daddies aren’t supposed to do that.
Yes, in a sense all relationships are hierarchical. But the hierarchy in a parent child//family relationship is much more a given, if you ask me. You can never take the place of your father/mother, while you can (at least in principle) do that with the place of (for example) your boss.
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Although I agree with the definition part (and both are indeed not mutually exclusive), I doubt whether it would have been an equally bad violation of trust if it were someone else, as far as comparing levels of abuse goes.
Ya know I spell almost everyone’s names wrong 
Sorry Goodbeem 
Oh sorry about the definition mistake samarm. It was not consensual sex but I have had the misfortune to have had sex with a relative so I considered the relationship incestual as well as abusive. Maybe the victim part is what is wrong?
From his point of view however it was completely acceptable for him to have sex with me as I was his daughter. Emphasis there being on “his.” It was not abuse in his eyes as I was really his property to do with as he pleased.
Ya know Mr. Moto… I was really shocked when I found out that every little girl’s daddy didn’t do this stuff. I honestly believed for many years that that was how things were in every family.
samarm–get a clue, and fix your spelling while you’re at it
As for the OP: I don’t find anything ‘wrong’ with incest between consenting adults, but it would make me question their social skills and sounds pretty icky.
That said, first cousin incest doesn’t bother me a bit. In fact, I’ve got a few first cousins who are super attractive and the thought has crossed my mind many times (not that I think I’d ever act on it, even if they were available).
And think of all the money we’d save on Hallmark’s ‘grandparent’s day’.
My sister-in-law and her MOTHER’S BROTHER have been carrying on for nearly 30 years, on and off. They’ve been together for around twelve years this time. I don’t know how they got the guts to go to her parents with the news (TWICE!) but everyone is still chummy, even though everyone wishes it never happened. It has hurt both his family and her family. Some of his children won’t speak to him anymore.
Albert Einstein married his first cousin. Ditto many of the European royals. I’m not sure cousins have the same degree of ickiness that closer relationships do.
Using the European Royals as an example of incest being ok jus makes me giggle.
/Eddie Izzard…
Know why there aren’t any wild and crazy royals? Because it’s a bad idea when cousins marry!
Eddie Izzard/
I’m sure I butchered the quote but I so love Eddie!!!
Well, Franklin D. and Eleanor Roosevelt were also cousins. Not that that proves anything.
True, I stated it as one of the problems often arising with incest, not only with incest.
And for the cousin-issue, societies differ on whether that is considered incest or not, Ithat could be because the relationships between cousins are less intense. After all, most cousins don’t sleep in the same room part of their youth, while siblings often do.
Aside from genetic diversity, some anthropologists say the incest taboo also serves to avoid role conflicts within families and also to encourage socializing with groups outside your family. After all, building such relationships can generally only be profitable.
Exactly. Incest AND child abuse. To define what she experienced using the term “incest” only was inaccurate.
I don’t see how its less of a crime just because the abuser is a stranger.
Pablito: I caught the clue bus thanks. In fact, I liked it so much that I bought it. Feel free to come for a ride sometime.
Right, I don’t either. But that’s not the point. Incest (the unconsented variety) isn’t only (supposedly, because that’s what the OP wants to discuss) wrong because it’s a crime or child abuse, but also because of the violation of trust or family bonds, as Eternal pointed out, too.
Now, you can disagree with that, but that’s how I Mr Moto should be read.
how I think he should be read
I agree. I would call unconsented incest rape. I don’t think we need to debate whether rape is right or wrong or a violation of trust. Of course it is.
Mr Moto said “Daddies aren’t supposed to do that.”
Neither is anybody else!
You’re right samarm… nobody is supposed to do that to a child. But when daddy is the one crawling into bed with you at night who do you run to to rescue you? When my mother finally walked in on him she yelled a little and then sent me off to bed. She did nothing else to stop anything and thus I learned no one was going to help me. I mean if daddy’s the abuser and mommy doesn’t care… why should I, as a child, believe a stranger is going to save me from this life?
I’m sorry to hear your story tanookie. Thats very sad. IMO this deserves a whole other debate on the subject of child abuse.
Again, while it is arguably impossible to define shades of damage in this case, don’t you think, samarm it is worse when a trusted parent rapes you than when a total stranger does, precesely because you don’t necessarily trust that person?
If the answer is ‘no’, well, then we will just have to agree to disagree.
FWIW, the study released last year was with regards to first cousins, not any closer degree of relationship. (It said that while first cousins have a higher likelihood of birth defects than two unrelated people, the risk was still pretty low, on the order of 2% vs. 1%.) However, I’m NOT searching for it on Google, since I’d rather not see what I think would come up. My guess is that while isolated cases of cousins marrying each other is probably OK, birth-defect-wise, over time, that sort of consistent behavior would probably end up significantly increasing the chances of Bad Stuff. Witness founder effects, which are what happen when all the organisms in a given population are descended from the same small group. Generally, when geneticists want to find genes for a given (generally rare) disorder, these are the sorts of populations they study, since there’s such a high incidence of diseases because everyone is cousins to each other many times over.
My gut reaction to sibling incest - ICK! ICK! ICK! But that’s not very scientific, I guess. Siblings share twice as many genes on average as first cousins do, implying that the likelihood of birth defects would be at least twice as high, but that’s a guess.
Again, while it is arguably impossible to define shades of damage in this case, don’t you think, samarm it is worse when a trusted parent rapes you than when a total stranger does, precesely because you don’t necessarily trust that person, while this is the case with your parents?
If the answer is ‘no’, well, then we will just have to agree to disagree.
And tanookie: that’s just horrible. I’m truly sorry