I just know I am going to feel sheepish walking around the port with rolls of dimes in my hands.
Cannot agree. There are lots of poorly designed brass knuckles out there that will only change how you hurt your hand, not whether you hurt it. When you have a set that firs correctly and they do what they are designed to do, you inflict very serious injury with their use. Knucks are a chancy item legally. Before you carry a set, be sure you know exactly what your state and local laws are with respect to them.
You can get plastic wrapped rolls from the bank sometimes which presumably came straight from the mint or something. It’s sort of a tight heat-shrink plastic that you have to cut or tear off if you want to get a the money. Those could be less suspicious.
The rest were using hockey sticks. After they got their licks in, the rest could have beat him up with their pinky fingers.
BTW, hockey sticks are an excellent way to avoid hurting your fists in a fight.
I tested a 1-pound dive weight, about the same size as a roll of quarters, and concluded that if I punched something hard my finger bones would turn to jelly. Protection of your fingers happens outside your hand.
I find it bizarre that you would give a paragraph description of an ill conceived metaphor, then the next paragraph admitting it’s not a useful metaphor and finishing with an unconnected assertion. But whatever.
My opinion is that a roll of coins would protect the mcp joints and probably the phalanges bones not that it makes your fist immune to damage.
- Someone wins the lottery every day.
- However, you’re still more likely to be attacked by a pack of wild dingos.
- Don’t play the lottery.
Everyone else skipped past points 1 and 2 (of the original topic, not the lotto). I didn’t, because I felt that it was incomplete to mention the 1 in a thousand case where the opposite result would happen.
Sort of. It reinforces your fist to ensure you have a solid fist, not a loose fist. It gives you a slightly easier way to get a tight grip, because wrapping your hand around something makes the tightening zone a little more open. For a good fist, you have to squeeze solid really tight, put something in the hand, that opens the hand slightly to get the same level of tight.
It might help protect your metacarpals slightly. You’re trying to hit with the two knuckle bones in your forefinger and middle finger. You want to drive the force through the bones of the hand lengthwise. Often, contact won’t be exactly on those knuckles - you will hit with fingers first. If you have a tight grip, some of that force will transfer through your fingers to your palms, the longbones of your arm. The roll of pennies or whatever will help make that a solid transfer, which will put some of the force through your arm bones instead of hand bones. Arm bones are much thicker, therefore, stronger than hand bones. You lose a bit of pressure but still get the same force spread over a slightly wider area, but you don’t get the force all going through your thin bones. The downside, your fingers become a crush zone.
Either way, you still have to have strong knuckles, which are prone to breaking. Wrist joints can also be damaged if your wrist position isn’t straight, though it’s less likely. But bad wrist position will sap some of your power.
Can’t say.
What makes a roll of coins “defensive” versus brass knuckles is that a roll of coins is something that serves a legitimate other purpose than punching someone. A small flashlight is similar in that regards (and won’t split apart, for a bonus). Brass knuckles have no purpose but to punch someone, and are thus weapons.
Brass knuckles, of course, have a solid part on the outside of the hand, and protect your knuckles from the impact. You still drive the force into the hand, but also spread some of the force to the arm bones.
You are correct. The knuckles are still the nominal impact zone and still prone to fracture. Skin is still skin.
You max out your arm speed well before impact, so having a bit more mass in your hand is not going to appreciably reduce your punch speed (unless it’s really heavy), but it will increase the mass in the fist on impact, thus increase the momentum (mass x velocity) and kinetic energy (1/2 x mass x velocity[sup]2[/sup]).
Reading the guy’s history, he grew up in the streets of LA in the '70s and '80s, and got into a lot of trouble as a “streetfighter”, i.e. tough guy in gang fights. He then went on to work as a bodyguard, bouncer, and corrections officer. If he’s telling the truth about his life (and I have no reason to think otherwise), he has a lot of personal experience with hands on fighting, including using things as “striker enhancers”. Very interesting article, and I’ve bookmarked his site for further reading.
I will say he oversimplifies his physics description to the point of error - he describes force but then gives the formula for momentum. I think it’s a case of oversimplification rather than misunderstanding, but it could be that as well.
There’s that.
Yep. Though elbows require closer contact, they are harder.
Yes, elbows are close contact “weapons”.
Normal punches don’t use your palms, or inadvertently use your palms. The goal is to strike with your two big knuckles and drive the force straight through the bones of the hand, wrist, long bones of arm. Boxing gloves protect the outside of the hand (i.e. knuckles) with padding, as well as reinforce the wrist (especially using wrapping tape).
Back when boxing was invented (i.e. bare knuckle brawling), the problem with punches was breaking your knuckles and your hands. You could only hit so hard before you hurt yourself more than your opponent. When boxing gloves were introduced, punches got harder because damage to hands was limited. That’s when knockout strikes became common.
Yes about something you could conceivably have on you, no about cell phones. My cell phone is a Samsung Note 3 - they’re bigger than the Iphone 6 enhanced or whatever. I can’t wrap my hand around it, nevermind make a fist. Phones tend to be a little bigger around than is comfortable for most people to grip for a fist, unless you have hands like a pro-basketball player.
A Maglite (small flashlight) is ideal, some other small flashlights are similar. A kubotan (6 inch stick) also works. But there are better ways to use those. (Hint: use the ends of the stick/flashlight rather than your knuckles.)
Oh, yes. Easiest way to hurt yourself is have your thumb inside. Have to teach kids this all the time.
Note to self: don’t get in a fight with Irishman, who sounds like he knows what he’s talking about.
To amplify what he said about striking with the two big knuckles: In various martial arts, we’re taught that when throwing a punch, the fist should be cocked down and to the right slightly from what seems natural, so that these two knuckles are dead center in front of the wristbones when the strike happens.
My guess is that if a punch is thrown correctly this way, the roll of coins would at most add momentum, and not make the strike more solid. But in a street fight, or for anyone who hasn’t trained extensively, it’d be very likely to land a few punches at a less ideal angle, and in that case, the roll of coins would also prevent several digital joints from overcompressing (if that’s the correct term). It wouldn’t protect the outside of your hand, but might help your joints.
For most of us, I think it would help a lot for a landed punch, at the cost of slowing down the strike.
All the posters here who have actually studied the anatomy of striking blows, please raise your hand.
First of all, in a proper punch, the knuckles should lead the fist and impact first. There are a few full bore strikes that strike with the flat of the proximal phalanges, but these strikes are invariably to a ‘soft’ target in the thorax or abdominal region. There are variations between the martial arts as to which knuckles should lead; in traditional Western boxing and many oriental martial arts, the first knuckles of the index and middle fingers contact simultaneously. In others, only the index knuckle impacts. In some animal styles, the middle knuckle of the middle finger is used in penetrating blows. In Wing Chun/Ving Tsun gung fu the fist is cocked such that the first knuckles of the ring and pinky finger impact first under the theory that they are more in line with the ulna and therefore provide a straight-line path between the hand and elbow joint. The reality is that it doesn’t especially matter which knuckles lead as long as the wrist is oriented to keep the line of force from being offset and the wrist is rigidly locked during the punch. What protects the joints of the hand isn’t anything held inside the hand to rigidize the fist, but minimizing the stretching of the tendons and any offset load on the carpal bones (wrist structure). Therefore, strengthening the muscles and tendons, and to a lessor extend the ligaments, is crucial to protecting the hand during impact. This is done via training and strengthening exercises designed to provide a controlled repetitive impact. In other words, beating on a punching bag strengthens the hand, and also reinforced good punching technique. (This is also while you’ll hear of professional martial artists “hardening” their hand by punching pails of sand, gravel, et cetera, although the value of doing this excessively is questionable as it will eventually result in repetitive stress injuries.)
Second, a roll of coins or another object clutched inside the fist does nothing to protect the exterior of the fist, and unless the fist is very large or the object very small, will likely interfere with the ability properly form a striking fist. This will result in having to cock the wrist over in order to have the knuckles leading the fist. See above for discussion about proper hand and wrist position.
Third, the momentum of a punch–that is, the quality that is most pertinent to delivered impulse and penetration–comes from the speed at which it is delivered rather than the mass. The human hand typically masses 0.5% to 0.6% of total body mass; for the average person, somewhere less than half a kilogram. Adding more mass to the fist will slow the speed of the punch without adding much in the way of participatory mass, and that only travels far enough to pick up sufficient speed to compensate in the case of a full roundhouse or overhead punch. It should be noted that many elite martial artists are capable of very powerful but extremely short stroke punches, as demonstrated and promoted by Bruce Lee’s famed “one inch punch”. (This was not hyperbole or fakery; Lee demonstrated it to martial artists and physiologists repeatedly in controlled conditions.) Such a punch is dependent on not only speed, but what boxers call “grounding”; that is, having the legs and hips almost completely rigid with the ground, and then using the hips and abdominal core to develop the power that is delivered through the arm; the actual motion of the arm is almost incidental.
It is entirely possible to learn to punch almost any surface without injury, but it requires training time, good technique, and conditioning to pull this off. Sticking a roll of dimes in your hand is no substitute for any of this.
Stranger
Ahh, but when your opponent bends down to scoop up the $$, you can kick him in the head. 
Sweet lord, Stranger, no one said a roll of quarters replaces years of martial arts training. And as many people already said, in a street fight you don’t always get the perfect knuckles contact you’ve studied.
Its not an extra layer of leather, it is quite hard, maybe lead. The object held is for beginners and amateurs not professionals. Don’t forget the confidence this may lend to a beginner as well.
That is interesting material, though I’m not sure it’s purely relevant. Remember, we’re talking about a meme from the '30s.
Agreed, and essentially what the guy from nononsenseselfdefense discussed.
Actually, I can speak to this as it relates to my former day job. Bone is a living tissue, and is in a perpetual process of remineralization. There is actually bone tissue laid down during growth that forms a structure and then bone tissue that reforms within that matrix. This is why bones can heal. It is also related to bone density loss through osteoporosis, why old ladies get brittle bones after menopause and why astronauts lose bone mass in space.
The process of remineralization is a homeostasis between absorbing the calcium and redepositing calcium. Doctors have been studying how to prevent bone loss in astronauts, and have devised exercise equipment to replace gravity dependent versions so the astronauts can work out. Part of that is muscle protection, but much of it is about preventing bone loss.
The homeostasis process is driven by the loads on the bones. Bone loss in orbit occurs because the body is suddenly not experiencing the normal gravity loading and thus stresses on the bones, and so the body stops “wasting” minerals on bone deposition. Thus the bones leach away.
The way to keep it from happening is to apply loads to the body - to exercise. There are three types of exercise machines on the ISS: cardio, resistive, and impact.
Cardio is just like you expect - they use an ergometer (i.e. a bicycle) to pump their legs. The Russians also have a device for simulating rowing.
Resistive exercise is like weight lifting or pulling on rubber bands. The current device uses vacuum cylinders to provide the resistive force - earlier generation equipment uses rubber bands. The idea is the same - pushing, pulling, stretching, etc., just like you would on Earth (with something replacing gravity to provide the “weights” you lift).
The third component is impact - this is currently achieved via running on a treadmill. Treadmills provide a key component for bone density protection - heelstrikes.
Resistive exercise (keeping the bones loaded) and heelstrikes are the two major things identified to keep bones safe.
Punching things like sand and gravel has those two components - it provides impacts through the striking and it provides resistive loading through the loading. The key is that the repetitive impacts strengthen the bones and make them harder and better at taking strikes.
Martial artists learned this independently prior to the bone doctors figuring this out.
Correct.
This is actually fairly important. A good punch is not really relying on the momentum of the fist alone. Good punches are delivered using the full body, using hips and shoulders to develop the force. The fist is the impacting surface, but the force comes from the body, not the arms.
Agreed.
Here is a limited offering in terms of empirical research.
Many years ago I read Raymond Chandler’s classic The Big Sleep. In it Philip Marlowe is struck by a man who has his fist wrapped around two rolls of nickels. (In the Humphrey Bogart classic the man has a fist filled with ball bearings, perhaps because it made a more dramatic image when he opened his hand. I don’t recall what, if anything, was showing the Robert Mitchum version).
Skeptical, and having two rolls of nickels on hand, I experimented by punching my right fist into my left palm with the right hand empty, and then while gripping two rolls of nickels. I didn’t punch hard, but the nickels made my fist much firmer and harder, and the effect much more painful. I suspect that it would be easier to damage one’s own hand when striking a blow this way. Come to think of it, I’m not sure how good of an idea it is to share this: kids, don’t try this at home.
The meanest guy I ever knew carried wrist pins in his hip pockets. I never saw him use them so i can’t say if they were effective or not.
When I was a teenager, brass knucks were $5.00 in any pawn shop. I knew guys who owned them but I never saw anyone use them.
I heard it makes your punch harder, not that it protects your hand.
If you are of the “Most fights go to the ground” school of thinking, then close in fighting is more typical than not. Also, the elbow strike’s point of contact isn’t the elbow: it’s the front or the back of the elbow. Elbow strikes requires training, but only a little: it is taught to white belts in my school, sometimes during their first or second class. I would not call it difficult. I endorse Clothahump’s post (run, palm heel, elbow), FWIW.
I can’t address the OP’s question though.