Same for the entire City of New York, however there are some intersections where it is allowed; these are marked with signs.
Because you’d encounter that very situation rather often, and so would learn that it was permitted (by watching others, or by having learned to drive in that area).
I learned that it was allowed (when I lived in Ontario) when I was turning left on a one-way from another one-way by watching the cars ahead of me treating it like a right-on-red. I then looked up the rule and did it myself.
I’m going to vent here.
The only ticket I’ve had in the last 15? or so years was for violating a “no turn on red” sign. It was 6 am on a Sunday morning and the sign was placed at an intersection outside of an auto plant in Flint Michigan that had been closed for years. Clearly the policy (and sign) made sense when this was a busy intersection outside of an active plant. But early on a Sunday morning outside a closed plant, it was utterly deserted, one could see a half-mile in every direction, and the raison d’etre for the stupid rule was clearly defunct.
So I violated the rule and hung a right, except there was an officer hiding behind an adjacent store who nailed me. Phhht. I violated the letter of the law but not the spirit or intent of the law. (I paid the ticket, yes. Still annoys me though.)
There was a “No right on red” sign on a freeway off ramp near where I used to live. This was a pretty busy intersection since it was right by the main campus of a big, big corporation. Most mornings there was a cop there pulling people over.
I live in Massachusetts. We can use a few “no left turn on red” signs.
That said, some of the “no right turn on red” signs make absolutely no sense. There’s no reason I can see that a right turn shouldn’t be allowed.
That’s the only ticket I’ve ever gotten, and really the view on the intersection wasn’t all that obstructed. But cripes, the ticket was a day in traffic school and something like $120.
Exactly, except the one time it was a motorcycle cop getting out his bullhorn and yelling “turn right now!” That one time, I just turned right on red.
I have two fun stories regarding this. I live in the Chicago NW burbs.
First is my (recently former) boss. He got a ticket for rolling through a red light. Granted, it was a right turn, and everything was clear. He ranted about this ticket, and how he was a great driver, and how there was NO WAY he rolled through a red light for about two days. When he got the email from IDOT, he actually called me into his office. See, IDOT sends you video proof - the video of you running the red light. He actually called me in (before watching it himself), furious, saying, “Hey! Come look and see how I’m innocent!”
He pulls up the video - and…
It’s clearly his jeep, rolling through a red light. Rolling stop, which is to say he didn’t stop. He was turning right on a red light; while there was no oncoming traffic (so no danger) he clearly ran this red light. He was immediately crestfallen on viewing this, and with a hangdog look, sheepishly said “Oh, I guess I did run that light. sigh Guess I gotta pay then mumble mumble”
The other story is from my friend “Gina”, also a self-proclaimed “great driver”
I was riding in her passenger seat, she was in the left turn lane behind 4 or 5 other cars. There’s the left turn signal - for cars 1,2 and 3. It was yellow by 3. Car 4 sneaked through, but “Gina” gunned it and made the left turn before oncoming traffic were up to speed for their green light.
…pretty normal, except:
The first car at the intersection, opposite, was a cop.
As soon as she did it, I said, “Damn, that’s pretty bold. You had a police officer opposite you at the intersection. You could get a ticket for that.”
Gina: “Nah, they didn’t see me.”
/police cruiser comes up behind us, lights on
Gina: “It must be a funeral procession or something.”
Me: “No…they caught you running that intersection. Might as well pull over. Try to charm him/her.”
Gina: “Nah. I didn’t do anything wrong.”
Me: “Well, technically, you*officer is at Gina’s window now, so I shut up”
/Gina gets a ticket for failing to yield
Gina: “That’s bullshit! I didn’t do anything wrong!”
Me: “Well, I don’t think it deserved a ticket (you weren’t endangering anyone), but technically, yeah, you ran that red light. The cop was technically correc*****”
/At this point, Gina smacks me and I shut up. But she did pay the $100 ticket.
If you’re permitted to go, and it is clear of traffic and safe to proceed and you don’t, then you’re obstructing traffic. You are basically obligated to keep moving if you can do so according to the laws and flow of traffic.
Agreed – I’ve only gotten two traffic tickets in the past 23 years, and both of them were for violating no-right-on-red signs (in both cases, I didn’t see the sign).
In the second case, it was at the exit ramp off of I-90 at Randall Road in the northwest suburbs of Chicago; the cop who pulled me over indicated that it was posted no-right-on-red because oncoming traffic from the left was coming across a steep overpass at 45-50 mph, and what might look like an opening to turn right could very quickly close (as evidenced by a number of accidents which occurred before they put up the sign). I didn’t contest the ticket, but I did point out to the cop that the one sign was at a strange angle, and you couldn’t see it as you were looking left to see if traffic was clear. Not too long after that, they put up a second sign, at a more visible location. 
At least in the suburbs of Chicago, I don’t see drivers violating the signs very often. In the city, it does seem to happen a bit more often.
(bolding mine)
This is correct for Houston, Texas.
Do you have a cite for that? I know you could make the claim that a cite isn’t needed in this case- sitting at a red light when you “could” go could obstruct the flow of traffic- but so could going going 30 in a 35mph zone and that’s not a ticketable offense (I know it isn’t here in NJ).
We’ve had threads about this before (here’s one) and it’s been shown that various state laws say thing like “you may make a right turn while the traffic light is red” and nothing is mentioned about being obligated to make the right under any circumstances. Unless you can cite specific state laws that back up your claim, or provide evidence that police officers give out tickets for not turning right on red, I think the wording that one “may” turn right shows your claim to be false.
I think this is the most usual permutation of the law.
Red light, without any other special signs: Come to FULL stop. Then you can turn right when it’s safe.
If there is a right-pointing red arrow, however, that means no right turn at all while this right red arrow is lit – The truck in the picture is violating that.
I often see signs that explicitly say “No right turn on red”, with or without a right red arrow there.
I have also seen signs (I think it was in Oregon or Washington State, many years ago) at certain corners that explicitly said “Right turn on red OK without stopping” :eek: (I think these were at “T” intersections where there was no street to the left.)
I could be right, I could be wrong, but I think common sense indicates that proceeding if you can is the right thing - if you want to park, use a parking space. If you want to drive, drive. The laws may say, “Can proceed” rather than, “Must proceed” because what good excuse could people have for not proceeding when it is clear, safe, and legal to do so? I’m assuming that people are in their cars and trying to get somewhere and shouldn’t need to get prodded to do what they’re trying to do.
ETA: Doing more research, it might make more sense to split it into what is legal and what is right. You may not be legally obstructing traffic if you decide not to go when it is clear, safe, and legal to do so (but I think in some places, you are), but you are still obstructing traffic for no good reason.
Good grief. How often do you think folks sit and not turn IF they think it is clear. If they aren’t turning they most very likely think it is NOT clear. Its their decision to make when to go, not yours.
And no turn on red signs are not common around here. But there is one I hate that I use fairly often. And its at a busy intersection. And cops hang around there ALL the time. And its quite common for me to be there and some boozo is back there honking because he wants somebody else to break the law cause he’s got important shit to do you know.
I wanted a cite because it happens to be something I was interested in and I thought you may have the straight dope on it since you made the claim. I already agree that if one feels safe to turn then they should do so. I’m not going to assume that when people honk at Chefguy to go that he feels comfortable doing it but stays still anyway. I doubt that’s what he does.
I’m going to guess that you feel it makes more sense to stop focusing on what’s legal because your research lead you to believe not turning at a red light is not a ticketable offense?
Where? Did your research lead you to think this? Genuinely curious.
I’ve lived in three states and driven in all of them (except Alaska, and I was a professional driver) and as far as I know a full stop on red and proceed if safe unless posted otherwise is pretty standard.
IOW: you always stop completely at a red light, no matter what. I can’t think of a state where a right turn on red is illegal unless otherwise posted.
I can understand why people honk at someone who sits at a red light without turning when allowed because that’s impeding traffic…but as billfish said the decision of the driver at the red light that matters, not the decision of the impatient folks sitting behind him. Because they don’t have a clear view of oncoming traffic, nor do they know of any limitations the turning vehicle may have. Or limitations of the driver…if my 89 year old, legally-driving grandma has slow reflexes and knows it, I would rather she be sure, slow and safe than be badgered into making traffic moves she’s not sure of!
I thought ChefGuy was arguing that he wanted to sit at a red light instead of turning as long as he felt like it, not just until it was clear and safe. If that’s not what he meant, then I’m arguing against nothing because I mis-understood him. I agree - no one should go until they feel safe to do so.
I’m vaguely recalling a thread where someone did indicate that it was considered obstructive driving to not go when you could, the thread you linked to had some indications in there that it was considered worth failing a driving test over if you didn’t go when it was clear, but I saw a cite from the Government of Quebec that says that proceeding on a red is not mandatory - I don’t consider that a great cite because of the history of no one being allowed to turn on reds at all in Quebec. This is probably (like a lot of driving laws) dependent on location, and I’m fine with that.
In Michigan, you can turn left on red (after stopping) from a one-way OR two-way street onto a one-way street.
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