I have no dog in this fight, but I found this and thought it was interesting, although it’s from 2003.
I have no idea how much of the above is applicable to the SDMB’s setup, but two things I, as a layman, take away from this:
It’s not a VBulletin issue–it’s a server issue. Thus, installing the updates that everyone upthread is clamoring for would probably not be the magical fix.
In order to fix a corrupted database, Jerry has to shut the entire board down. Thus generating even more complaints.
I would also like to mention that I was here extensively yesterday and last night, when the boards were busy borking, and as soon as Zotti announced that Search had been disabled, suddenly my service got like greased lightnin’. Click, threads came up. Click, Post Reply. It hadn’t been doing that all day, and suddenly–it was.
If what it takes to get the boards running properly, absent a server upgrade from our Corporate Overlords, is to keep Search disabled, then I for one have no problem with it. I’d rather have a few duplicated discussions, and be able to post reliably, than be able to Search and to have to sit here during numerous timeouts. The #1 most frustrating thing about hanging out at the Straight Dope is not “not being able to find an old thread or post”, but rather, “Not being able to post at all”.
I’ve been here for eight years now. These boards have never been fast, and I’m–finally–about tired of it. And if what it takes to bring them up to speed with the other boards I frequent is to permanently disable Search, then I say go for it.
But it isn’t. And in fairness to you, you’ve admitted you don’t understand this stuff. But Duck, it’s kind of like saying that if the only way you can get a hamburger at McDonalds is if you cook it yourself, you’re okay by that. There is no way, barring a completely failed business system, that people should have to cook their own hamburgers at a McDonalds. (Remember, it’s not just you.)
Forget the technical issues for a moment. Consider the exasperating irony of our situation here. This is a board where we routinely discuss issues ranging from how the universe works to whether Gettier solved the knowledge problem. It’s a community of some of the smartest people anywhere on earth, hosted by an entity (Cecil) that is the very enemy of ignorance.
And yet here we stumble along, dicking for years with a minor technical issue about a completely open source database that has mounds of documentation about every conceivable aspect of it, along with members who have volunteered their considerable expertise complete with pledges of nondisclosure, williing to endemnify the SDMB — all just to tweak a frigging SQL backend.
This is something companies do all over the world everyday, sometimes by people whom we make fun of whether it be for their stupidity or politics or religion, all the while swallowing these painfully absurd stoppages and reductions of service as though the smartest people on the planet are dundering dolts when it comes to them fancy smancy software thangs.
Like I said, Jerry has demonstrated himself to be a capable hardware guy. And that’s great. But it is no insult to him to say that he might not be an expert in dababase administration, which is a whole 'nuther field. The point is that we do have people here who ARE experts on this stuff, who have OFFERED to help, and who have been TURNED DOWN for whatever reason.
How can we convince the world that we’re so smart when we can’t even make our own board run right? Doesn’t that bother you at all?
I find DDG’s post about SQL verrry interesting. As someone who has past experience with database software, server and system software, and a modicom of hardware interfacing as well, all in a generic sense, my WAG is the problem lies in the SQL/vB area, possibly the interface between the two.
It’s not uncommon to find a solid system with X amount of data exhibiting an entirely different behavior with X*1000 amount of data. It’s not common for software developers at any level to test their product with systems or databases that are 1000 times what they expect. They should, but getting together the test facilities may be a prohibitive cost. Years later, when the cost is affordable by everyone, the problem crops up.
So I wonder if our usage of SQL/vB is above what many other boards have? If so, we should work with JelSoft and they should be grateful we are available as a test site. Are we their only customer with this problem, or is this typical, and if so, under what conditions (data size, user size, whatever)?
There’s absolutely no reason why a properly-written search function should bring down, or even slow down, a healthy system to this extent. SQL was designed for searching, a very basic need for a database. A search function is a vital part of what we do every day and a valuable asset (I’m not objecting to a short-term shutoff, but a permanent one would not be tolerable and shouldn’t be necessary).
So my best wishes go to Jerry, Ed and the crew in their difficult task ahead.
How does EVERYBODY do it? Normally, I find the bitching about this board tedious, but this is ridiculous. It’s a message board. There are thousands of them out there–many with higher traffic than SDMB. Worse, this is a pay site. We’re paying you for this service. Don’t have meetings. Fix it.
Well, yeah, I get all that, Lib. But I think the difference between those other boards, who “do this every day”, and the SDMB is that the SDMB has always been sort of the ugly stepchild of whatever corporate entity is holding the purse strings. First it was “the Reader doesn’t” or “the Reader isn’t” or “the Reader won’t”, and now it’s somebody else. [shrug]
And I don’t get the sense, after numerous discussions in ATMB, that there’s anybody Corporate behind the scenes currently holding purse strings who really deeply cares about the SDMB. Nobody from the Boardroom ever drops in to 'splain things to lowly mortals here, unlike JREF where Randi, although he doesn’t often post, does find a way to express an interest in what happens there, and of course the BA’s fingerprints are all over BAUT.
So at places like JREF and BAUT, it’s abundantly clear that there are people behind the scenes holding purse strings who do deeply care about the message boards attached to their name.
I’m disinclined to complain too loudly here, lest the ugly stepchild be thrown out into the street altogether. We have always existed on sufferance; I don’t see that changing any time soon.
Don’t misunderstand me, Duck. I think the complaints are more than justified. And I agree with you that the owners don’t seem to be emotionally invested in the board. That’s probably actually pretty frustrating for Ed. All I’m saying is two things: (1) the board desperately needs a SQL administrator, and (2) it’s ironic that none of the “smartest and hippest people on the planet” are being tapped to help — even though they’ve offered. We’re like the structural engineer blustering about how smart he is even as his rickety old bridge keeps collapsing.
Don’t pay for it, and the problem fixes itself.
Honestly. People pay a pittance to post here. You’d think it gave y’all some sort of right to bitch and stuff.
And yet, the reference to McDonald’s is certainly apt. I’ll bet many of you waste hundreds of dollars at that joint (or places of similar quality) and think nothing of the poor service, poor cooking, and poor results you get from them. Yet you pony up $15 a year to post here, and the fact that, on occasion, you can’t, sends you into raving tizzies.
Get a sense of proportion, please.
I don’t like it when the capybaras aren’t working any more than anyone else does. But I’ve learned over the years to simply shrug, say “I guess I can’t use the Board right now” and move on. Much like planning on golf only to find it raining. What do you do, bitch at God?
At McDonald’s, I pay for a hamburger and I get a hamburger.
At the SDMB, I pay for posting and search privileges. Currently one of the two is disabled and the other is on the fritz way too often.
I find this situation irksome. Would also find it irksome if I went to McDonald’s and paid for a hamburger and got a bun with some lettuce on it and no meat.
Yes, but McDonald’s is *consistently *crap! I go in, and I know exactly what sort of crap I’m going to get. Really, it’s amazing, when you think about it, that McDonald’ses in Austin and Anchorage have identical crap. It’s a marvelous show of skill, really.
The reason this place is frustrating is that it’s so inconsistent. There are long stretches when everything is more-or-less fine, and then stuff like this. And yet, it’s not like “stuff like this” is so infrequent as to be brush-off-able as an uncommon lapse, either.
McDonald’s doesn’t promise me that they’re getting better. They don’t suggest that one of these days they’ll be serving t-bones. They’re fairly honest that they’re tasty, tasty crap, and I accept them on their own terms. (Which, actually, means I don’t accept them anymore!)
But here, it’s more promises than an abusive marriage! Just when I get really fed up enough to leave, the bastards manage to get a central line into the capybara, and I’m sucked back in again! It’s like working for a pimp who knows just when to give me the good drugs so I don’t leave him!
There’s a fine line in customer service - to some extent, telling them you’re listening to their complaints and you’re working to make things better will hold them off a lot longer (and a lot more cheaply) than actually fixing the problem. But there’s a point at which that’s no longer the case - “sympathy” becomes “empty promises” and good will turns into anger which drives people away. Are we at that point? Heck if I know. Not for me, personally. I’ve found another way to find most of what I want on a daily basis without using Search (I’m keeping each Forum’s main page up in a tab and hitting “Refresh All Tabs” to find new posts, instead of using the New Post search.) While finding old threads is nice, it’s not a dealbreaker for me. But if it’s a dealbreaker for enough of my favorite posters, then I won’t be interested in hanging out anymore. Only time will tell.
At McDonald’s, I pay for a hamburger without pickles, and I get a hamburger with pickles, repeatedly, at more than one location, and then I get run down by a car being driven by a geezer.
I could even link to a post that set out that evening’s pickle problem, but then again, no, I can’t link to that post, for I can’t search for it.
To recap, [arlo]Don’t want a pickle, just wanna’ to search on my motorsicle.[/arlo]
In all seriousness, the temporary lack of a search function, the ongoing problem of the board being slow, and the board crapping out ocasionally, are not the immediate end of the world, but I am very concerned that such problems will lead to fewer people joining, and more members leaving. That will lead to less income (be it PTP or adverts), which will make it even more difficult to pay to properly maintain the board, eventually leading to a downward spiral that could result in the board losing the spark that its members collectively provide. I hope that does not come to pass.
I love the fact that I can pull up an old thread on almost any topic imaginable. I frequently search on older movies that I’ve just seen and books that I’ve just read so I can see what people had to say about them. I don’t resurrect zombie threads or anything. I just like to see what you all had to say.
Temporarily disabling search? No problem. Permanently disabling search? Problem.
Okay, it wouldn’t really be a dealbreaker. I’m not going to pretend that I won’t keep paying my lousy $7.50 a year 'til the cows come home. But it would kinda suck.
We met, but one of the honchos is coming into town tomorrow to go over a final set of numbers, so no announcement till after that. If you’re wondering, the discussion isn’t about how to fix the server - we’re confident Jerry can handle that - but rather agreeing on a business plan for TSD.
