For them that want it bad enough, they’ll find a way.
For them that don’t, they’ll find excuses.
It may not be the BEST choice, but there are still choices. Work and go to college? May be hard to do, but many have. Me, I enlisted during Vietnam (my draft number was 336, which means they’d call up the Cub Scouts before me) and used the GI Bill. What, can’t get into the college of your choice? There are SO many colleges around, pick one. Do it a piece at a time? Okay, so what if it’s not the Perfect Degree? Any degree is better than no degree.
As for shitty jobs? Well, frankly, they’re ALL shitty, but they’re also what you make of them. If one is particularly shitty, then use it as a springboard to a better one. If you can’t do that, then you’re truly nothing more than a wage slave and no amount of college is going to change that.
That’s all well and good for why your friend didn’t go to college way back when. But today, online classes are a huge growing segment of every college (The SUNY system has a “college” that operates exclusively online).
Honestly, even the poorest of the poor would qualify for government loans to afford a community college. I’m sure some people will still try to fight it but the fact of the matter is that anyone who wants to go to college can go to college.
Because citing how easy it was for you, a rich white guy, to get money as evidence for how much easier it must be for low-income people of color to get money is utterly ludicrous.
Maybe they work? As in more than one job (ha! your insularity is showing). Maybe they have children to raise? Maybe they went to terrible inner-city schools and can’t perform at the level required for even basic post-secondary educaiton? The idea that “anyone who wants to college can go to college” is the kind of untethered-from-reality statement that inspires such cockamamie pontificating as “people are only poor because they want to be.”
I came in here to post this. This actually came very near to hurting my wife when she started school late. She made the age to be considered “independent” by like, a week, even though she’d been living on her own for six years and no shit, had no idea where her mother was. No clue. Hadn’t spoken to her in years, and she’s supposed to get her to fill out tax information?
And I know people who yeah, they got their parents to fill out the forms, but when it comes to money breakdown there’s an “expected family contribution” or something like that and a lot of them aren’t getting a dime from their parents.
Can you explain? I’m fairly certain there are at least a hundred programs out there aimed at getting poor minorities into college. Programs that I wouldn’t qualify for.
I didn’t go for a variety of reasons. I also don’t expect sympathy, pity or to be felt sorry for because I have a good job anyway that pays quite well and a pretty bright looking career path.
Can you name five? And how much money they have? And then compare the economic benefit of high-quality suburban schools versus failing urban ones? And health care. And crime differentials. And employment rates.
Or does the existence of UNCF scholarships make everyone even now?
I don’t think “can” is really the best question to ask. Anyone with enough determination can go to college, but for many people the opportunity cost is too high. If you are working two jobs because your mom is a drunk and your little brother needs to eat and the electric bill needs to be paid quitting one of your jobs to make time for class at your sibling’s expense may not be something you are willing to do. If you got knocked up at 17 by a guy who disappeared off your radar when he heard the word baby and your family kicked you out giving up your child for adoption so you can find the time and funds for school may not be something you are willing to do. Or maybe you just hated every minute you spent in school and the extra earning opportunities in the future aren’t enough to make you spend the next 4-5 years of your life continuing to be miserable. There are tons of examples of people who may delay going to college or who may not go at all because while in the long term college is the better economic choice the short term costs are far too high.
There is opportunity cost in everything. For example, technically right now I have more than enough money in savings to buy a house in Detroit. They have houses for sale for literally $8,000 and stuff in the worse parts of Detroit right now so if it was really, really important to me I could be a homeowner. But then I would have to move myself and my family to a slum area of Detroit and that just isn’t something I am willing to do to own a home. A college education is no different than anything else in that respect.
Yeah, there’s programs, but the issues are getting people to know about them and convincing people to try them. If your grandparents didn’t go to college, if your parents didn’t go to college, and no one in your family talks about college, you’re not likely to see college as an option.
The guidance counselor at my high school compiled a nice binder of scholarship listings. Except that the only people who knew about it were the students that cared enough to visit the counselor and talk about options. She should have stood on the upper level over the cafeteria with a megaphone shouting about the scholarship book.
I know a few people who work multiple jobs, far more than 40 hours a week, and are still barely able - or are in fact unable - to make ends meet. So I can totally see how someone in their position, even if they got a completely free ride, would not be able to go to college, because time spent in class/studying is time not spent making money they sorely need.
Now you might argue that they’re not working every waking moment. There are still plenty of hours in the day when they’re not working or sleeping, when they could be studying. Sure, it would suck not to have *any *free time, but if they’re really determined, they could do it.
And this is probably true; they could… but to what end? The folks I mentioned, just barely scraping by? A couple of them *already *have college diplomas. And it’s brought them nothing but student loan debt.
I’m not at all saying that college is always or even usually a bad investment; I myself just finished a second degree in a brand new field a few years ago, and it’s already paid for itself. But it’s not a guarantee, for me or anyone. And there are far fewer opportunities for a brand-new grad who’s 40, or 50, than one who’s 22. So I can certainly see how some folks might look at the rewards (possibility of better income) vs. the risks (a crapload of debt without a better income), and decide it’s not worth it.
Who made you Saint Poory McPoorFighter? I repeat, anyone who wants to go to college can go to college. Will it be easy? FUCK NO! But they could go and there are ways that they could make it work. No matter how poor.
But if you don’t know about them or have the incentive to find out, they’re pretty much worthless. If you grow up poor and don’t know anyone who’s been and just think of it as a remote possibility then all the programs and the world aren’t going to make it feel real. But if you’re from a well to do background where it’s expected you go, like you were, it’s probably a lot easier.
No, I can’t. But one talk with a FAO; I’m sure he/she would know more than a few.
We’re talking 20 years ago, but I remember when I went to talk to my FAO; he handed me a pamphlet FULL of programs. If I remember correctly, one of the hundreds of programs in there was one that would give you money if you volunteered for an animal rescue shelter for Christ’s sake!
One more reason why I know poor folks can get into college easier than I can is because my first attempt to get in, they told me to come back in a year because my parents made too much money. Despite the fact I had been living on my own for more than a year.
But you haven’t done anything than trot out the same tired “po’ folks are stupid” line. The rest of us are pointing out that hundreds, perhaps thousands, of programs exist to help poor people get into college and to help them pay for it.
You come back with a ridiculous woe is me tale and expect that to matter? You’re right, the poor fucker who has to work two jobs, watch the kids, pay the mortgage/rent and then still not have enough time to even take a shit in peace is probably not going to be able to go to college. What about everybody else?
Well, I don’t think I said poor people were stupid. And given that this thread is titled “Under what circumstances can people not go to college?” I will take your penultimate sentence as a wholesale concession to my side. So… Thanks?
Both of you chill out, now. If you want to debate, or pit, the issues relating to socioeconomic status, ethnicity, and access to higher education that’s fine, but hold the sarcasm and cut out the snark.
Out of curiosity, are you even a member of an ethnic minority or poor?
Still, there are plenty of race and income-specific scholarships, grants and such out there. And in many cases, minority students are eligible for both the garden-variety scholarship as well as a minority-specific scholarship.
Having had an academic rock star friend in high school who was also half-Mexican sort of opened my eyes to how much more he qualified for than I did, despite similar academic achievement. Granted, this was 1991 or thereabouts, but I can’t imagine that it’s changed much since.
Maybe if it were free…