voter ID- why? why not?

Politics & Elections
21

In theory it’s a nice technical feature to have some form of identification process built in to voting to make sure people who aren’t legal voters aren’t able to vote and to prevent repeat voting and things of that nature.

In practice, in America, it would solve a nonexistent problem with a layer of bureaucratic nonsense. You could implement it in a way that wasn’t onerous to various Democratic voting bases, but the reality is there is no real practical reason to implement it. As a Republican my feelings are it is just a non-issue and we shouldn’t really be spending time on it.

In some places it’s very important, though. Several African countries are implement voter identification schemes that rely on biometrics. These countries are very much unlike our own, and in those countries I agree the cost of these systems is justified due to the drastically different situation, but in America we can just be fortunate we don’t have such problems.

In America these incidents are of greater concern:

22

The reason for that, again, is the goal is to repress voter turnout among groups not likely to support conservatives. Like gatorslap said earlier in the thread, these ID laws are also to a degree being tied to cuts in funding to the DMV, at least in Wisconsin (not sure about other states).

When Scott Walker passed a voter ID law in Wisconsin, he followed it up with a law cutting funds for DMV branches in democratic districts while increasing funding for branches in GOP districts.

http://occupyintel.net/2011/07/23/wi-governor-scott-walker-to-cut-dmv-centers-in-democratic-districts/

There have been a lot of voter repression efforts in this country in the last decade or so. During the 2000 election about 90k black voters were kicked off the roles because of an overzealous purge of felons. Voting machines are not fully supplied in districts.

Add to that attempts to abolish or limit same day registration, early voting, absentee voting, destroying voter registration groups like ACORN, making registration harder and there is a clear pattern.

In some states there are laws making voter registration extremely cumbersome and full of expensive fines for minor mistakes now. These are designed to intimidate voter registration groups and make their efforts harder.

http://newamericamedia.org/2011/06/fierce-battle-brewing-over-florida-voter-registration-law.php

http://www.alternet.org/news/153509/gop_voter_suppression_plan%3A_seven_tactics_to_block_your_vote_in_2012/?page=entire

Roughly 5 million people may end up disenfranchized due to voter suppression efforts come 2012.

23

The problem with Voter ID requirements is that they are (for the most part) a solution in search of a problem. There simply isn’t a lot of voter fraud in the form of people showing up to vote and claiming they are someone they are not. However, it does act as a not insignificant barrier that affects poor (especially minority poor), young and very old more than other groups.

The reason it is so reprehensible is that the folks who are pushing these laws are well aware of the fact that the extent of the voter fraud is outweighed by several orders of magnitude by the number of legitimate voters who get turned away.

24

It’s the right answer, though. Voting fraud in the U.S. is extremely rare. That doesn’t mean that everybody should assume it will never happen and do nothing about any potential issues, but it does indicate that there’s no need for a series of large and burdensome new laws. Whatever reasons individual people may have for supporting voter ID laws, the reason that businesses, lobbies and legislators are introducing these laws is the reason given in this thread: it will prevent some people from voting, and those people were likely to vote against the interests of those businesses, lobbies and legislators. Instead of trying to get these people to vote differently, they’ve decided it’s a better investment to try to prevent them from voting at all. It’s the same, for example, with laws

I don’t think that type of ID card is necessary, but I agree that if it were provided to everybody that way it would address most of the issues that create opposition to these laws.

25

I used to be in favor of voter-ID laws. It made sense to me that, if you need an ID to drive, having an ID for something as important as voting seems reasonable. After some research I’ve changed my mind on this, largely due to the fact that it would be solving a problem that, for all practical purposes, doesn’t exist. As others have mentioned, voter fraud is almost nonexistent in this country.

But the core of the issue is one simple phrase in the OP, “the vast majority of Americans.” It is true that nearly all adults have government ID. But the right to vote doesn’t extend to nearly all adults. There are people for whom obtaining an ID would be a significant burden, due to time, logistics or money. They still have the right to vote. Voter ID laws would also hinder absentee voting.

26

There’s also the fact that some states tailor their laws to effectively restrict voting by college students. In New Hampshire, the state House speaker made the real reason behind his state’s new restrictions pretty clear by stating that votes from college students are the ballots of people who “are kids voting liberal, voting their feelings, with no life experience.”

27

Wisconsin coincidentally (?) closed a number of DMV offices in predominately Democrtic voting areas just as the state’s new voter ID law went into effect.

Naturally, the press dug up a few stories of people who had been voting for forty years suddenly becomming disenfrancised.
Need a free photo ID to vote? Be prepared to wait

Election fraud, as compared to voter fraud, seems to be mainly a Republican enterprise.

An Indiana jury convicted embattled Republican Secretary of State Charlie White in the early hours of Saturday on six out of seven felony charges including perjury, theft and voter fraud.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/breaking/chi-jury-convicts-indiana-elections-chief-of-voter-fraud-20120204,0,105867.story?track=rss
In 1970, (Carl) Rove stole 1,000 sheets of letterhead from the office of Illinois Democrat Alan Dixon, who was running for state treasurer. Rove printed the message “Free beer, free food, girls, and a good time for nothing” on the sheets and distributed them as a supposed invitation to a Dixon rally. Though the rally was disrupted, Dixon won the election. Rove owned up to the stunt many years later, saying: “It was a youthful prank at the age of 19 and I regret it” (Washington Post, July 23, 1999).

Rove, of course, worked for Watergate dirty trickster, Donal Segretti.

Karl Rove - Militarist Monitor

Americans for Prosperity is sending absentee ballots to Democrats in at least two Wisconsin state Senate recall districts with instructions to return the paperwork after the election date.

AFP Wisconsin ballots have late return date - POLITICO
(Bush 43) White House Implicated in NH Phone Jamming Case
JAMES JOYNER • TUESDAY, APRIL 11, 2006 • 6 COMMENTS
AP reporter Larry Margasak has written a piece headlined “Phone-Jamming Records Point to White House” by YahooNews. Perhaps a better headline would have been “Republican Operatives Call Political Affairs Office.”

Key figures in a phone-jamming scheme designed to keep New Hampshire Democrats from voting in 2002 had regular contact with the White House and Republican Party as the plan was unfolding, phone records introduced in criminal court show.

28

So would anyone object to

  1. When you register and you get the confirmation postcard, a corner of the card is a wallet size ID card (not photo ID) without which you cannot vote

or

  1. A fingerprint is taken and compared to one on record when you vote
29

Before we answer, could remind us again what problem you’re trying to solve?

30

That already happens. To vote in MO I need my voter registration card or other document with my name and address (or a photo ID). You can see it at this website: Voter ID

I see no reason why these requirements wouldn’t be sufficient.

Why would I have a fingerprint on file?

31

The data I’ve seen that indicates voter fraud is not common is based on convictions. Well, obviously if no ID is required and I claim to be someone who’s registered to vote, it would be pretty hard to convict me. The data on dead people voting seems to indicate that this practice, on the other hand, is pretty common. Much more common than voter fraud conviction. I guess it boils down to what is most cost efficient, updating voter registration based on death certificates or issuing free photo IDs to registered voters.

32

The government has all your biometric data from pennies. :wink:

33

Out of curiosity, what were the circumstances and what were the consequences? Was the false vote cast in person or by absentee? Were you trying to vote in person? Did they catch whoever did it?

Not disbelieving you, just wanting to know how it happened. Was it something like in the article that Martin Hyde posted?

The risk of actual real-live voter fraud stems from absentee ballots IMHO. Michigan requires ID (or signing a legal affidavit) to vote in person. The first time you vote after registering in Michigan, you must vote in person to prove you’re a real person, but after that, you can request an absentee ballot without having to show ID. Looking at the form on my local township’s website, you can even request a ballot to be sent to an address other than your registered address. This appears to be exactly the type of fraud perpetrated in Martin Hyde’s example. And frankly, I’m not sure how to fix it in a way that’s fair to everyone who wants to vote absentee either. The whole POINT of voting absentee is because you are physically unable to get to the polls on election day; having to show your ID in person to request a ballot isn’t really any less onerous, to those with physical disabilities for one obvious example. One thing that’s clear is, requiring people to show ID at the polls is not a fix for this particular problem - by election day, any absentee ballot fraud of this kind has already occurred.

34

Generally, I agree that this is where the fraud would tend to occur; however, requiring a proper ID eliminates one layer of “protection” that such folks could claim in defending themselves, and brings investigators closer to the actual cause, if it is there.

35

Preventing someone walking in and saying, “I’m that guy.” and voting under another name in a way not onerous to the real voter.

36

I suspect some of the opposition to voter ID is the Democrats trying to game the system somehow. More of it may be fear that the GOP are trying to control who gets certified as a voter and then cut people off. And they may have a point that the Republicans are trying to game the system with the new rules. And each side thinks they’re the good guys and the other is** up to something.**

That said:

  1. There is a lot of system gaming, already, and on the GOP side, between gerrymandering and the classification of many “poor folks” crimes as felonies with prison terms and loss of voting rights. That has no doubt swung close elections.
  2. If the state wants to impose an ID mandate, let the state pay for my freakin’ ID card. Poll taxes are illegal for a reason.
  3. I think we need to be trying to get more people voting, not less. Let’s get homeless people voting, and immigrants.
  4. If you really want accuracy, mark voters with indelible ink. An ID card can be forged, and the apparent legitimacy of one’s ID could be successfully used by someone with multiple ID’s. One wonders why this is the path chosen all of a sudden. Surely the GOP have seen the purple fingers of Iraqi voters! Why ID cards instead, if they’re not either trying to exclude somebody or planning to have their sectarians vote multiple times with multiple ID’s?
37

The idea that only young people vote based on feelings has got to be another thread.

38

In light of your post, I concede that no ID requirement is better than a free ID.

39

Feds block TX voter ID law

They cite a number of issues, which I find pretty valid. Interestingly (to me anyway), the phrase “the legislature tabled” appears three times in this letter:

It certainly seems like the purpose of the law is to stick it to people and depress turnout, rather than address issues of fraud.

40

Which political party routinely states that there is too much Government intrusion into the lives of free American citizens?

Which political party is actively promoting schemes like Voter IDs? (Which would be a Government intrusion on the lives of free American citizens…)

If you find that the answer to those two questions is the same, then one would naturally be suspect of the motives of that political party.

A reminder - our Constitution and Bill of Rights and privileges enumerated are originally in place to protect us from the actions of a Government.