It seems to be the same idea as what I had in mind (the left turn lane has red/yellow/green arrows pointing left), only difference is yours has all the lights mounted on the same crossbar (plus the intersection I linked to has a more explicit green arrow pointing up for the through lanes instead of just a plain green light). I think it’s there just to serve as a reminder.
Maybe they need to keep out-of-staters informed; in my state (CA), the U-turning vehicle would have the right-of-way if it’s not controlled by a sign. I don’t know if that’s more or less common around the country, though.
You may be right, then. I would never have thought a U-turn-ing vehicle would ever have the right-of-way.
Makes perfect sense to me. I can see three possible reasons:
a) Like Markxxx said, there’s enough oncoming traffic that the people turning left would never get out. While your green arrow is on, the oncoming traffic has a red light. The oncoming traffic turning left may also get a green arrow at the same time.
b) For some reason, the lights for through and oncoming lanes are timed differently (as part of the master traffic signal grid), and just because the through lanes have a green light, the oncoming lanes may be timed differently.
c) The pedestrian traffic at the corner is so heavy that the WALK signal has priority over traffic. In other words, the car turning left on green has to wait until the pedestrians have the chance to cross the street. The green arrow doesn’t come on until the pedestrians have a DON’T WALK signal.
I think the question is why is there this redundancy? That is, why the sign saying “turn on green arrow only” when it should be obvious, given the presence of a red and yellow turn arrow? It’s clear why one would have dedicated arrows for the turn lane, but why the dedicated arrows and the sign?
ETA: Put it this way, in effect, it’s the same as having a normal controlled intersection, with a sign saying “Proceed on green only.”
Because there are morans out there that don’t get that the light for the turn lane and the light for the through lane are the lights for those lanes and those lanes only!
CMC fnord!
ETA to your ETA Ever notice those signs that say “Delayed Green”? That’s cause there’s a shitload of morans that think that when the cross traffic light turns red they can go … even if their light is still red.
Yes, I agree, and I stated as much upthread.
More usefully (in the sense they do alter behavior because of the sign), the signs exist for the situation Markxxx described, in which you have a single traffic light governing both turn and through lanes with five states: red, yellow, green, yellow arrow, green arrow. Normally, you can turn left on green or on the green arrow. “Turn left on green arrow only” eliminates the turn on green light option. This is not the situation the OP is describing, though.
To make sure Black Canary doesn’t get too flirty with anyone else?
D&R
making a u turn on a green arrow is a protected turn, making a right turn on red is not. (may vary by state)
to the op is the street you are turning left onto a one way? most states have rules allowing left turns on red if you are turning onto a one way street, which means some times the need for a no turn on red sign.
Isn’t the rule more commonly when you’re making a left turn from a one-way street onto another one way street? I’ve never seen a left turn on red from a two-way street unto a one-way street permitted.
Nope, it’s a totally run of the mill intersection. I just picked that as an example - many (most? not all) of the places around vegas have those signs next to dedicated turn lanes, so it’s not an abnormal situation that needs a special warning at all.
in Washington you can turn left onto a one way from either,
idk about the signage from the op, sounds like its just a place where people for whatever reason keep turning on red so the added a sign.
reminds me of the occasional “left turn must yield on (green ball)” signs you see every now and then.
Interesting…and odd (to me, at any rate). In Illinois it’s only permitted from one one-way to another, which makes sense to me, as it’s basically acts like a right turn on red in that case (in other words, you’re not crossing across any lanes of traffic.)
Ah, Wikipedia has info on this:
Well, good thing to know for next time I’m in Michigan. But it is in the minority as far as US traffic laws are concerned.
“Turn on green arrow only” may also be used when the person in the left turn lane does not have good enough visibility to judge oncoming traffic (can’t see if it is truly safe to turn)
Some of the left turn’s in my city now have a green arrow (for protected turns) and a flashing yellow arrow (means you can turn if it is safe-but the oncoming traffic has a green light). They said that a some people seeing a solid green left turn light felt that they had a protected turn and were pulling into oncoming traffic and getting hit. The flashing yellow arrow indicates that you can turn, but use caution.
Some intersections with high left turn volume now have protected “green arrow” turns at the beginning and at the end of the green light cycle. That has really help cut down on having to sit through multiple light cycles.
No kidding. Despite a “no left hand turn on red arrow” sign, I was behind someone today who apparently got bored of waiting and did just that. It was very strange, since he’d been waiting, so it wasn’t like he’d barely missed the light change.
This is just a guess, but something I observed today.
A very common mistake made at stoplights with separate green lights for the left turn, even when they’re arrows, is to go as soon as any light turns green. I suppose it’s possible that the sign might subtly reinforce to someone waiting for the straight light, who read it with nothing else to look at, that they shouldn’t go if they aren’t turning when they see a green arrow.
No idea if that would help, but it may be a reason for the redundant sign.
(And to nitpick myself : The CA rules of the road regarding U-turns & right turns don’t cede right-of-way to all U-turners over right-turners, but in some, including the most common, situations.)
I did a double-take the first time I saw one of those. A flashing yellow arrow… HUH? No spots on my glasses, my brain is properly caffeinated, is the signal broken or something?
OK, I get that it seems to mean “You may turn left (on to I-85 from a turn-only lane) if it’s clear but be aware oncoming traffic has a green light” but I’d never seen or heard of such a thing before.
SenorBeef said:
Other situations make more sense. In the situation you describe, I can only assume it is for idiot drivers. “Wait, I don’t go just because the straight lanes go?”
KneadToKnow said:
Now I need to go look that up. Consider a left turn lane, needing to U-turn. Left only light triggers, roll up and as I start around the bend, the cross traffic right lane guy is right turning. Even after I’ve started the U and am clearly aiming for that lane. See, it’s a protected Left, so I am in the lane with a green light, where as the right turner is in a lane with a red light. Clearly I have right of way.
Okay, like I said, I should look that up.
Critical1 said:
You can turn left on red from a 2 way street? Seems risky - you are crossing a traffic lane - your oncoming traffic.
pudytat72 said:
Just shows there’s no universal standard. Never seen a flashing yellow arrow. We would indicate that with an green arrow for protected left and a green ball for left but oncoming traffic has green. I suppose the counter argument is that a green ball would suggest traffic can also go straight from that lane. Even from a dedicated left lane with a median in front of it?
elfkin477 said:
Some lights have preposterous timing. I came from a place where it was pretty much standard for left turns to either be simultaneous with straight traffic, or preceed it. Never followed straight traffic. Moved to Houston and discovered lights in any sequence. First time I encountered left turn last it confused me. So say you enter the left turn lane just late enough that the trigger doesn’t put you in that light cycle, and the light goes to red, no turn. You sit patiently through the cross traffic, then it’s “your turn” and the light skips you and goes to straight traffic. WTF? Oh, it’s a red last light.
Some lights have a 2 minute wait. 2 minutes sitting for the full light cycle before you get the go. That is fine if traffic really is that heavy, but typically there is a lull somewhere where oncoming traffic is open but you have a red light, no turn. That is frustrating. Sitting and sitting and sitting where you have good visibility, no oncoming traffic, and you are still red.
I’ve seen many light patterns. Here in NJ (and I’ll presume elsewhere), there are “delayed green” patterns. You’ll be sitting in the left turn lane at a red light. The light is red for all traffic in your direction. Traffic on the perpendicular road gets a red light, then the opposing side gets its green light. They then get the red, and you’ll get the green.
No arrows. No indication that it is safe to turn, except that you see cars have stopped from the opposite direction. You have to understand that “delayed green” and “wait for green” mean that you will get a green signal after opposing traffic has completed its cycle. If you are on the other side, the sign will say “opposing traffic has delayed green” (or something akin to that).
With the sea of jughandles, circles, turn arrows, cycled no-turn-on-red lighted signs… well, I’ll take all the reminders I can get.
ETA: In direct response to the OP, the signs are there as a reminder that this signal differs from the variety of other signals found on this road. There’s a road very near my home that has several different left-turn methods and rules. Jughandles, 3 separate arrow colors, 3 arrow colors in one lamp, delayed greens with left turns, delayed greens with jughandles… every single intersection seems to present something new, and all within a span of 5 miles or so.
I drove through the intersection that was on my mind when I posted that just the other day, and I’d like to add that it does not have a left-turn lane and likewise does not have a left-turn arrow, so persons making a U-turn there are not, as I understand the term, making a protected turn.