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Old 09-11-2002, 03:50 PM
Scylla Scylla is offline
Join Date: Jan 2000
Posts: 15,434
That Latin motto in Lonesome Dove

That motto that Augustus McCrae carved into the sign next to "we don't rent pigs."

What was that? What does it mean?
Old 09-11-2002, 04:56 PM
pravnik pravnik is offline
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: TX
Posts: 13,386
"Uva uvum vivendo varium fit"

"a grape darkens from seeing other grapes"

It's from Juvenal's second satire, and supposedly is a rough equivalent of our "one bad apple spoils the bunch", although I don't know the original context and can't swear to this. Classical dopers?
Old 09-11-2002, 05:03 PM
pravnik pravnik is offline
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: TX
Posts: 13,386
Sorry, that should be "varia", not "varium". Also, vivendo was a mistake from the book, it should be videndo.

Just so I'm not a plagarist, source Rick LaFleur, dept of Classics, U of Ga.
Old 09-11-2002, 06:29 PM
Padeye Padeye is offline
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: Phoenix, AZ, US
Posts: 7,672
I thought the meaning was closer to "a grape ripens with other grapes" a reference to Gus and Call's relationship to one another. Still a good case could be made for bad apples such as Jake Spoon.

don't need to ask what my favorite Western of all times is. I even use Gus' gun in competition.
Old 09-11-2002, 07:05 PM
pravnik pravnik is offline
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: TX
Posts: 13,386
I've heard it quoted that way too, Padeye. The "bad apple" thing I quoted instead because the Juvenal satire is supposedly about the contagion of vice. Either one makes sense, maybe even both at the same time: "like comes from like". In fact, in the context of Jake, Gus and Call's fates, being strengthened or weakened by the men around them, it seems to make the most sense that way.

Lonesome Dove's my favorite, too. Robert Duvall's favorite movie.


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