'Mr.' and 'Sir' for female military officers?

Factual Questions
1

In some of the Star Trek movies, female officers are addressed as “Sir” by subordinates and as “Mister” by superiors. So far as I know, this has never been protocol in any U.S. military service. Does anyone know whether this protocol has been part of any military service outside the United States?

I know that, traditionally, in the British Army, subalterns (i.e., lieutenants and second lieutenants) were always addressed as “Mister” rather than as “Lieutenant.” Did this continue to apply when women began entering the officer ranks?

2

I don’t know the answer to the OP with respect to foreign military services, but suspect that it has only occurred in Roddenberry’s politically correct paradise.

Today in the U.S. Navy, female officers are addressed as “ma’am” or by their rank.

Male officers are, of course, addressed as “sir” or by their rank. Junior officers (0-1 to 0-3) in the U.S. Navy, though, may still be addressed as “Mister [Last Name]” by superiors and subordinates.

On my submarine (mid 1990s), all (non-department head) junior officers were addressed as “Mister [Last Name].”*

I’ve never heard a female junior officer addressed as “Ms. [Last Name]” but I believe it could be done properly.

*To this day, if you want to snap me instantly out of a dead sleep, you need only say softly: “Mr. ‘robby’, your presence is requested by the Officer of the Deck…”

3

In addition to the practices already noted, in the U. S. Army warrant officers are addressed as “Mr. So-and-so”.

Add my name to the list of people who are guessing that this is supposed to be a futuristic form of address. It could happen: In the U. S. it is not uncommon for female attorneys to see “Esq.” behind their names.

4

According to this site(pdf, page 3) female Army officers may be called Ma’am. I also think it would never be incorrect to say, Captain Soandso, or just Captain if you don’t know her name.

5

To advise on at least one overseas military:-

It’s exactly the same in the British forces - Ma’am or the rank. And in the Royal Navy only “Mr xxx” (don’t know about “Ms”).

6

What about enlisted personnel? A male corporal, say, is addressed as “Mr. Smith”, right? What about a female corporal? Is she “Ms. Smith”, or do you have to know whether she’s Miss or Mrs.?

7

I was under the impression that only officers could be addressed as “Mr.”; thus, your man would have to be “Corporal Smith.”

8

Right. Navy enlisted, at least, are never referred to as “Mister.”

9

What I can’t seem to get straight is whether drill instructors are addressed as “sir”. They are enlisted, but in the movies they are addressed as “sir” by the recruits. I know I asked my brother, because he’s been through the enlisted and officer basic camps, but I can’t remember the answer.

10

Drill instructors and the like are addressed as “sir” or “ma’am” as part of training. Once you’re out of their little control, they’d be called “Gunny” or “Chief” or whatever according to their stripes. Boot camp is a world unto its own.

11

From my experience in the US Navy:

Enlisted people below the rank of Chief Petty Officer aren’t addressed as ‘Mr.,’ ‘Miss’ or ‘Ms.,’ but traditionally with their last name alone. In my personal experience – which was all on small, linformal shore commands with a lot of civil service civilians working with us – I was usually called by my first name. According to my husband, though, on ships, as recently as two years ago (when he retired) enlisted people are still called by surnames alone, at least by most people who outrank them. In my father’s day, enlisted people used surnames alone even among themselves, BTW. This has largely changed – among themselves enlisted people use first names. And, according to my husband, some younger officers seem to prefer first names for the enlisted people working for them. My husband, and most other traditional types, still prefer the surname-only usage. And, in any case, ‘Mr.,’ ‘Miss’ or ‘Ms.’ would never be used.

Chief Petty Officers (E-7 - E-9) are always called ‘Chief,’ ‘Senior Chief’ or ‘Master Chief,’ either with the last name or alone. Sometimes Senior or Master Chief is shortened to ‘Senior’ or ‘Master’ alone, but never with the last name – you might hear, “Hey, Senior…” or Hey, Senior Chief Jones…" but never “Hey, Senior Jones…” You never call a Chief, ‘Mr.,’ ‘Miss’ or ‘Ms.,’ nor Sir or Ma’am – not unless you like to be chewed out. Typically, if you so misaddress a Chief you will be told either, “I’m not a ‘Sir’ – I work for a living!” or “I’m not a ‘Ma’am’ – my parents were married!”

Officers: Junior officers are usually addressed as ‘Mr.,’ ‘Miss’ or ‘Ms.’ or Sir or Ma’am. I worked with a number of female junior officers and used ‘Ms.’ or ‘Miss’ at their preference – I suppose ‘Mrs.’ would have been equally correct, but I never knew one who wanted to be called that. ‘Ms.’ was the most common preference although I knew a few who went by ‘Miss.’ Occasionally ‘Mister’ was used alone for a male Junior Officer, but I never heard ‘Miss’ or ‘Ms.’ used alone. It just sounds funny, I guess. If we were in a hurry, we’d just say ‘Ma’am.’

Senior officers: Their rank (alone or with the last name) or Sir or Ma’am.

Using ‘Mr.’ as an honorific for women: Never in real life. The honorific for women is either ‘Miss,’ ‘Mrs.’ or ‘Ms.’ The notion that the female honorific isn’t quite good enough and should be replaced by the male is a bit offensive to me.

12

For those services that aren’t the Navy, “Mister” and “Ms” are what you call ROTC/Academy cadets. Active duty personnel are addressed by rank and name (Sergeant Jones, Captain Smith, Etc) or, if they’re an officer who outranks you, as “Sir” or “Ma’am”. Never call a female superior “Sir”. Ever.

Oh, and really senior sergeants have special ways of being addressed - Air Force Chief Master Sergeants are called “Chief” and never “Sergeant”, Marine Corps Gunnery Sergeants are “Gunny”, Army Sergeant Majors are, well, “Sergeant Major”, and the ranking sergeant in an Army unit is addressed as “Top”.

13

U.S. Navy enlisted veteran, civilian for 5 years.

I’d just like to provide confirmation for every word of Jess’s post.

14

Oh, forgot to mention - it’s always appropriate to call a member of the military by their rank alone, particularly if you don’t know their name and can’t get a good look at their nametag. “Excuse me, Airman, which way is the air show?”

15

It’s at the airfield, dummy. :slight_smile:

In order to call someone by their rank, it helps to know what they are. So, here are the enlisted and officer rank insignias.

Good luck keeping them all straight. It took me forever to learn them all, and I purposefully studied them.

16

Oh, to Cardinal and FairyChatMom: in US Army Basic, the Drill Sergeants are addressed as “drill sergeant”; never Sir/Ma’am and never just “sergeant”.

Marine DIs are addressed as Sir/Ma’am by recruits.

I’ll let the USAF/USN dopers address what did they call their Basic/Boot (tor?)mentors.

17

Our reporting statement until week 6 was “Sir, Trainee Snuffy reports as ordered”. It was always “Sir” throughout Tech School as well.

Once we were done with the Mickey Mouse stuff, it became “Sergeant”, or if he/she was really cool, it was just a first name.

And don’t knock the MTIs. That’s one of my goals, if at all possible. What better way to give something back than to make Airmen as awesome as I am? :wink:

18

We called ours “Petty Officer”, usually. He had us call him AD1 (his rate and grade) in informal settings, when no other company commanders were around.

These days they’re called recruit division commanders, and addressed as RDC or petty officer or chief, as appropriate.

19

Eons ago when I went thru recruit training, we called our company commander either Petty Officer Campbell or Ma’am. All our instructors, enlisted all, were Sir or Ma’am while we were recruits. After that, if you slipped up and used that address, they’d ream ya one.

20

Here’s a practical question. What do you call someone if you can’t readily identify someone’s rank.

Since 9/11/01, National Guardsmen have been stationed at transportation hubs (train/bus stations, etc.) in field uniforms (camoflauge) with the new Army black berets. Rank is indicated by a small, black or brown pin-on insignia on the collar that fades into the camo background. Often, even these will be obscured by straps, jacket collars or other gear. Unless you stare closely at the collar, there may be no way to tell if the person you are looking at is a PFC, a senior Sergant, an officer, or anything in between.

I presume to the extent that the otehr services have field uniforms, I imagine the rank insignia and placement would be similar.

If you come up to such a person, need to address them, and have no idea of their rank, what do you do?