While TV is not reality (to our surprise), it has always been emphasized on TV shows how you do not address your drill sargeant as “Yes, Sir!” because he is not an Officer. You address him as “Yes, Drill Sargeant!”
Never was this more clear than on “Gomer Pyle, USMC”, IIRC. However, recently, Nick at Nite ran the Andy Griffith episode in which Gomer joins the USMC, and we first meet Sargeant Carter. And yet, his character did not make the obligatory objection to being addressed as “Yes, Sir!”
So, I am asking if the latter is reality? Or, is the former correct? Or, can it ever depend? (And, if so, on what? Branch of the military, for one?)
I know that in the Army it’s very much a faux pas ever to call any sergeant “sir”. All I know about the Marines is what I saw in movies, but for what that’s worth, in boot camp it was always “sir, yes sir” and “sir, no sir”. No idea if it bears on what actually happens in the Marines.
Yes, I’ve heard this said on TV, but what does it mean? What is the difference between a Non-Commissioned and Commissioned Officer??? Is like hourly vs. salaried employees? - Jinx
Went to Parris Island for boot camp in 1966. One of the first things we were told (right after, “Shut your goddamn mouths and swallow that fuckin’ gum.”) was the that the first word and last word out of of our mouths would be sir. Anyone who wasn’t a recruit was a sir.
If a drill instructor was addressed and a name was needed we used his full title. So you might have, “Sir, Private SandHook reporting to Senior Drill Instructor Gunnery Sergeant Smith as ordered, sir.”
In a more lighthearted vein our girlfriends were always called Rosey Rottencrotch and the guy that was doing her while we were gone as Jamey.
Sort of. Commissioned officers are the “management” of the military. Officers generally have a college degree and completed ROTC, Officer Training School or a military academy. They include ranks like (from lowest to highest)
Lieutenant
Captain
Major
Lieutenant
General or Admiral
Non-Commissioned officers are people that enlisted possibly straight out of high school and then got promoted to:
One of the various types of sergeants
Warrant Officers
Even the most junior second lieutenant straight out of college outranks all non-commissioned officers and they must salute him and call him “Sir” but the day to day chain of responsibilities and respect isn’t as clear cut.
I was a Navy Chief and, depending on the circumstances, calling me “Sir” might get you a short lecture on the difference between a wet behind the ears, baby faced, mush brained ensign and a person who really ran the U.S. Navy.
Boot camp is a different situation, if it wasn’t another recruit, you saluted and said “Sir”
Enlisted – Privates/Specialists
Non-Commissioned Officers – Corporal to Sergeant
Warrant Officers – (never understood the deal with these guys)
Officers – Lieutenant to General
(Note navy nomeclature is different)
In order to become an officer you must have a bachelor’s degree from a 4-year college.
That said I have been told by many family members (who were in the military) that you do not piss off sergeants even if you outrank them. They seem to be the goto guys who get what the officers want done taken care of. If a sergeant hates an officer they have many ways to make the officer’s life miserable without actually doing anything wrong themselves (i.e. they will not get in trouble for not following orders while managing to make the officer look very bad).
The “I work for a living” line is pretty much an Army tradition. Marines (and, I believe, Air Force) address non-coms as “Sir.” In the Army it is taboo. The distinction is probably based on the tradition that a commission renders one “an officer and a gentleman” and (hearkening back to a time long past) a “gentleman” would never engage in labor.
Why the tradition took hold in the Army and not in the other services, I have no idea. (Given that the USAF was originally the USAAF (a branch of the Army), I am not sure why or how it was lost after the Air Force became an independent service, either.)
As to commissioned officers, warrant officers, and non-commissioned officers, here are some threads that discuss them (although you may still need to ask a specific querstion, of course):
A commissioned officer is just that: commissioned. As in “appointed to the grade”. A non-com is not commissioned. He/she attains that rank by virtue of years in service, evaluation grades and by (sometimes) passing a test. Should an enlisted person reach officer grade through one of several programs, or be field-promoted to an officer rank, that person is then commissioned at that rank.
This is incorrect. There have been many ‘bootstrap’ programs over the years, as well as field promotions (Audie Murphy is a prominent example) in time of war.
I call everybody Sir, and as you might expect some people have a witty comback. others (including officers who want me to call them by their first name, which I am absolutely incapable of doing) look at me kind of cross eyed and shake their heads, and others don’t care.
Things are different in flying squadrons, I have observed. My experience is atypical of what you would expect elsewhere, because fraternization is common and in some cases expected among officers and enlisted. We fly together, we get stuck in crew tents together, we eat together, and we party together. To exclude yourself in those cases is downright counterproductive, and it leads to casual relationships. And I still call everybody Sir. What the hell.
A field promotion is a different creature and of course being an on-the-spot sort of thing they are not reviewing your resume.
Otherwise you need a college education (or be able to finish a degree within a year) to be an officer.
Apparently the military views officer candidates in three classes (just looked this up). College Graduates (civilians), current military (enlisted) and direct commission (doctors, lawyers, chaplains). For a civilian candidate they must have a degree. For an enlisted candidate they must have 90 semester hours towards a degree and be able to finish their degree within a year. The other category I think are by definition college graduates. ( Cite )
So, barring a field commission it seems an officer pretty much requires a college degree.
However, Whack-a-Mole appears to be addressing the current requirements and appealing to events that are 62 years old (or even 20 years old) may not apply to the current situation. Whack-a-Molemay even be incorrect regarding the current regulations, but appealing to a WWII event would not be sufficient evidence that the current procedures are different than described.
When I went to Boot Camp in the USAF, at least to our drill instructors we always said “Sir Yes Sir” or “Sir No Sir”! I said drill instructors because we had DI’s from E-2 on up (“Smokey Bear” hats included!) I think that having the Vietnam War going on at the time meant that they needed as many DI’s as they could get.
I have pretty much the same experiences. I just call everyone Sir because I’m the young guy. And I’ve heard the “don’t call me Sir I work for a living” line. If I’ve known the NCO for a while I may just call him Sergeant instead of Sir. But you can never go wrong saying Sir.
I’ll also echo what was said about the flying squadrons. When you have such a tight nit crew it’s hard too keep the lines between officer and enlisted. Especial with us because once we’re in the aircraft, of course there’s still the aircraft commander, but each person, from me, the lowly A1C to the Lt. Colonel piloting has just as much say. If I say I don’t like something and we’ve discussed the options, we’re going home. While we’re flying, it’s the closest thing in the military that you’re going to find to a democracy Airmand Doors I’ve always noticed you around here and I’ve wanted to ask what you do? I never you knew you were in a flying squadron. I’m an Aerial Gunner on Pavehawks
I’m an Electronic Communications Systems operator on the EC-130E/J Commando Solo. In simpler terms, I run the radio/television broadcasting equipment on the plane. Oh, and in spite of my screenname I am now a Staff Sergeant. The name is a legacy of sorts. If I make Chief I might change it, but by then this board will probably be long gone. More’s the pity.
I guess it’s been a while since people have seen “Full Metal Jacket”. The first half of that film consists of Marine boot camp training. Here is what Drill Instructor Hartman (played by R Lee Ermey) tells the recruits is the proper way to address him:
Gunnery Sergeant Hartman: I am Gunnery Sergeant Hartman, your senior drill instructor. From now on you will speak only when spoken to, and the first and last words out of your filthy sewers will be sir. Do you maggots understand that? Recruits: Sir, yes sir! Gunnery Sergeant Hartman: Bullshit I can’t hear you. Sound off like you got a pair. Recruits: SIR, YES SIR!
Dont want to hijack this thread, but this isn’t really enough to warrant a thread of it’s own.
I’m an Officer Cadet at one of the UK’s Officer Training Corps (good fun!), based in Glasgow.
I’ve always known that as part of the British Army, we pronounce things properly (ie; not how spelt), and call Lieutenants “leff-tenant”, none of this “loo-tenant” malarkay.
However, some of the NCOs in my Corps will address Lieutenants US-style and call them “loo-tenants”. I’ve not got the balls to ask my RSM (Regimental Sergeant Major, WO1) why he’s pronouncing it wrong but I’ve spoken to the CSM (Company SM; he’s older, got more army time under his belt) and he’s agreed that it’s definately wrong.
So why would someone in such a relatively high position make such a mistake?
