To be more specific, would he only be referred to as 'Sergeant," or would “Sir” ever be used.
I asked because it was my impression that Marine noncoms preferred not to be addressed as “Sir,” as that term is reserved for officers. If anybody here knows the answer (and preferably can provide a cite), I’d be grateful.
In boot camp, anyone who is not you or another recruit is addressed as “sir”. In the case of a DI or other non-com, one addresses them starting and ending with “sir”, i.e., “Sir! The private requests another ass-kicking, sir!”
Outside of boot camp, non-coms are addressed by rank, such as “Gunny” (gunnery sgt.), corporal, or Sergeant Major (who actually prefer to be addressed as “god”).
Not to be insulting or anything, but I don’t suppose you have a cite?
I ask because I’m working on a story about a son of a Marine Gunnery Sergeant who makes a comment about his father preferring not to be addressed as “sir.” And I’m anal. So if you know of any good resources about life in book camp, or about how gunnies would interact with the troops under their command, i’d be grateful.
(You know, I could really wish I were less anal. I really could. It’s just one freaking line. Ah, well.)
<mod>
Fixed thread title.
</mod>
No offense given or taken. I expected the question. I can only offer my own experience in Navy boot camp and 23 years serving around the world, much of it with Marines. There have been many movies made on the subject, such as Full Metal Jacket, which I’m sure you’re aware of. That particular movie is fairly accurate in its portrayal of the DI/recruit relationship (at least back in those days). Non-coms absolutely are not addressed as ‘sir’ outside of that type of environment (military prison would be an exception, for example). When arriving at my first actual command after boot camp, I addressed the petty officer on duty as sir and he just laughed and gave me the line about “Don’t call me sir, I work for a living.”
Gunny Sgts, much like Chief Petty Officers, pretty much run the military services. Their word is law, and the good ones are respected by enlisted and officer ranks (the smart ones) alike. It’s a leadership and mentoring relationship with junior troops. Making E-7 is a big deal, particularly in the Navy, where there is a complete change of uniform and status. It’s difficult to make Chief or Gunny, and the people who do finally pin it on can be understandably proud of the accomplishment. Being addressed as “chief” or “gunny” therefore, is important as a gesture of respect. On top of which, calling an enlisted man ‘sir’ is just incorrect protocol.
Exactly the sort of cite I was hoping for.
I’d been planning to use the “work for a living” line, as I knew noncoms aren’t generally called sir. Tell me, if you would, if this scenario sounds reasonsable:
The character in question is a 14-year-old boy who idolizes his dead father, a Marine Gunnery Sergeant lost in a plane crash four years earlier; he wants to follow in his father’s footsteps. He hears someone say “Don’t call me sir, I work for a living,” and immediately thinks of poor lost Dad. Is he going to muse that his father would tell boot camp recruits not to call him Sir? Or would he think something else?
Not boot camp recruits** in** Basic, but maybe Marine Privates/Navy Seamen fresh from Basic/A-school; or even civilian-contractor employees.
From personal experience as a Marine recruit in 1966. All of the below applies to while in boot camp.
Anytime you address anyone who isn’t a recruit the first word and the last word out of your mouth is sir.
NEVER us the word, “I.” Use, “Private,” instead.
NEVER use the word, “You,” in any manner that can be possibly construed as meaning any non recruit. You, sounding like ewe, invariably would lead to to some variation of: “Ewe’s a sheep, sheep are for fucking. You trying to fuck me maggot.”
Any reference to a specific Drill Instructer requires the use of the DI’s full title. “Sir, the private requests permission to speak to Senior Drill Instructer Staff Sergeant Whoosit, sir.”
It isn’t a barracks, it’s a squadbay.
The floor is the deck.
Some good phrases you might want to consider a DI using to recruits.
“You’re lower than whale shit and that’s on the bottom of the ocean.”
"Side straddle hops, many, many of them.
“Back to the barn, ladies.”
“Twenty minutes to shit, shower, and shave.” Quite a hoot from the DI’s point of view as up to 100 jammed into the head (never restroom, bathroom, latrine, etc) at once to attend to business.
As mentioned above, “Full Metal Jacket’s,” boot camp segiment is an excellent starting point. R. Lee Ermy, who played the DI was actually a DI for a couple of years.
NEVER, NEVER, NEVER, NEVER use, “Soldier,” to refer to a Marine. It’s Marine.
Back in '42,that’s FORTY two, I was a boot at PI.
The base mascot was an english bull dog" named “Jiggs”.
Jiggs wore a body sleeve with Master ser geant chevrons.
If that S.O.B. was asleep athwart the door into the mess hall one had to address him by rank and ask permissionto enter.
Then you CAREFULLY stepped over him.
BUT---------one thing for sure ----God forbid that you should wake him up .
You could wind up doin’ pushups 'till the end of your cruise!
[or your last Banzai]
EZ
I wish more writers were as anal about things. Especially in Hollywood. Then maybe we could avoid garbage like BASIC or THE CORE.
It doesn’t matter to the story, but I’m interested; what about civilians? And what about nurses? My character met his wife (a nurse, and presumably in the Navy) while serving as a DI at Parris Island; how would he have addressed her? And would there have been any fraternization concerns with him romancing her?
Oh, I KNEW the bit about Marines not being soldiers…and every Marine being a rifleman. (Which you didn’t bring up but I thought I’d throw in.)
Many thanks for all the info. I can actually see a use for some of that information. The story’s main characters–the dead gunny’s son–passionately wants to follow in his father’s footsteps; I can easily see him referring to his family house as a squadbay and the kitchen floor as the deck. How would this son refer to cleaning the kitchen floor, in Marine terms?
Also, can you define “side saddle hops”? It just sounds cool, and if I can work it in I will.
Back to my original question: t seems pretty clear from your and other’s experiences that I can’t use the line “Gunny T. had never let recruits call him 'Sir,”; he worked for a living." So what word would you say I should put in in place of “recruits”?
For the record, the character in question was a Vietnam veteran who served in the battle of Khe Sanh and retired around 1979, died in '84 at the age of 48.
Replace “Recruits” with “privates”.
A mop is a “swab”. So it’s swabing the deck.
Side straddle hops are simply Jumping Jacks. A stupid exercise.
Also… walls are not walls. They are bulkheads.
There are three different medical groups: Navy Nurse Corps, Doctors, and Hospital Corpsman. Both nurses and doctors are officers and would be addressed as ‘sir’, ‘ma’am’, ‘doctor’ or ‘nurse’. Corpsmen are addressed as ‘peckerchecker’. I keed; actually, Corpsmen are very respected and are often addressed as ‘doc’ as a term of respect. Otherwise, they’re addressed by rank: LCDR Doofus, Petty Officer Dinkus.
If your character is enlisted and the nurse is actually a Nurse, then there would be a serious frat problem. The Nurse would probably have to resign her commission prior to making anything public, since it’s a court martial offense to fraternize.
Don’t understand the question about civilians.