Officer went to boot camp?

I’m having a discussion elsewhere about whether it is possible for a officer, rank of Captain to have been to boot camp. Actually the officer said something about having a Sargeant speak to their class at Basic Training. I don’t know which branch this person is.

Talking about a seargent in basic training is being used to accuse this person of not being in the military at all - the claim being that no officer would ever have had gone to “boot camp” or had a “drill Sargeant”.

I dunno enough about military culture to figure this one out but would like to defend this person’s honesty if possible - gut instinct tells me she is not lying about being military. Can anyone help me? Would an officer have gone to boot camp?

Thanks,

Twiddle

Yes, it is possible. You can still “work up” to Captain by starting as enlisted, working your way through the ranks and going to Officer’s School.

I am not sure if people who start out as Officers go to boot camp or not. My guess would be yes but I could be wrong.

My friends who were in ROTC were sent to boot camp before they were commissioned.

I was actually sent to officer training (this was during Viet Nam) from boot camp. They discovered that I happened to have a skill that they wanted and the hook to get me to do it was for me to become an officer. That being said, however, it was very rare.

Also I knew a number of officers who “came up from the ranks.” In other words they enlisted and after excellent service and possessing very good officer qualifications they were made officers so they would have gone through boot camp.

I should also mention that a number of my instructors at OCS (officers’ candidate school) were in fact NCOs (non-commissioned officers - that is to say sargeants and corporals) especially those involved with PT (physical training). For years after some of my classmates at officers training referred to this as boot camp (since for all practical purposes it was indeed their boot camp) and this may well be the case here.

TV

Another vote for yes, it’s possible. My Dad enlisted at age 17, ended up going to OCS (Officer Candidate School), and eventually retired after 35 years with the rank of Lt. Colonel. I’m pretty proud of him.

Wish I had his retirement…

Dunno about the US Armed Forces, but in Israel every soldier goes to boot camp. Everybody, including the Chief of Staff, was there, did that.
I fail to see how an officer can be a worthwhile soldier without having learned how to soldier… the hard way.

But I guess other armed forces might work differently. So maybe I’m not answering your question after all. Sorry

Your friends in ROTC didn’t go to Basic Training. They went to Basic and Advanced Camp. They are entirely different, as officers are trained to lead in the camps. Basic training is teaching how to respond and follow.

The base chaplain here is a captain that started off as an enlisted. He went through bootcamp 27 years ago =)

There are many names for the training that officers go through before they are deemed fit for a commission: Field Training, Plebe Summer(?), Officer Training School, Officer Candidate School, Advance Camp (?), etc. etc.

IIRC, the Marine Corps still requires all of its officers to attend basic training. At the Naval Academy graduation and commissioning, I recall several graduates who graduated–I believe with a deferred or pending commission–with a first assignment to “attend Marine Corps boot camp at Parris Island and commission into USMC upon successful completion.”

Notwithstanding the fact that all prior-enlisted officers have, by virtue of their previous enlistment, already been to boot camp, almost all officers (not just USMC) have been to some training in the field.*

One constant is that when you are there, it is almost always before you’re an officer, so you don’t really have any rank relative to the instructor–whether he’s an airman first class or a colonel. Even if you did, however, you’re in a training environment. Within that training environment, the instructor has positional authority over you, regardless of rank, and both your boss and his would be correct in chastising you if you disobeyed his (lawful) orders. Even after you become an officer, when you’re on a firing range, the chief (usually a senior NCO) of that range has positional authority–not rank authority–over you and your actions. To exaggerate the situation, imagine when the President was back-seating during the carrier landing back in May. Although the President has rank in that situation, his orders would be treated by the pilot (mission commander) as “strong suggestions.” Conversely, if the pilot told the President to eject, or to assume a crash position, or to press the orange button on the left armrest, the President would be a fool to insist on his rank de-obligating him from that task, since it’s his ass on the line.

Hope this clears things up a little.

  • Possible exceptions include medical and JAG officers, who may have attended training, but may also have acquired a “direct commission” that did not require the full physical rigor of a field training camp.

“Basic Training” is not necessarily “Boot Camp”. The US Marine Corps has the Basic Officers Course at The Basic School, for commissioned officers, and their Officers Candidate School (OCS) for those wishing to be Marine officers.

While at OCS, one is in constant contact with Sergeant Instructors and Platoon Sergeants, who hold the MOS of Drill Instructor and have spent time on the Drill Field (Parris Island or San Diego), so those instructors ARE Drill Instructors, although they are not referred to as such at that school.

Here in Canada, every member of the armed forces, enlisted and commissioned attends basic training. The two courses are very similar in most respects. The Basic Officer Training Course (BOTC) is actually longer than the recruit course (14 weeks vs 10 weeks), but that’s because the officers-to-be also have to learn basic military leadership, management and planning.

There are many routes to become an officer in the U.S. Army (which I am familiar with), and all them require that an officer candidate complete some type of pre-commissioning basic training or basic camp/advanced camp prior to be commissioning.

That being said, not all officers, especially those who have come up through the more traditional commissioning routes, like USMA or ROTC, have attend enlisted basic training where there are “drill sergeants”.

However, ALL officers who were commissioned through OCS (Officer’s Candidate School) have attended enlisted basic training, and SOME ROTC commissioned officers have as well.

Indeed, a growing number of ROTC and some USMA graduates have prior service as enlisted members and NCO’s. These individuals, continue to represent an increasingly growing proportion of young officers today, especially among junior officer ranks (2LT-Cpt). These highly skilled and valuable officers, are called “Mustangs” to denote their prior service as enlisted members or NCOs.

All pre-commissioning, officer-candidate training involves contact with both NCOs and officers. Enlisted basic training, or what is called “boot camp” by Marines, on the other hand is exclusively run by “drill sergeants” or “drill instructors”, both in the U.S. Army and U.S. Marine Corps, respectively.

Pre-commissioning officer’s basic training, for example at ROTC Basic & Advanced Camp, and West Point’s Camp Buckner are run predominately run by junior officers (called Tactical Officers, or “TACS”), and senior NCOs. However, these individuals would not be referred to by the officer trainees/cadets as “drill sergeants”. “Drill Sergeant” is a title exclusively used in U.S. Army enlisted basic training, which U.S. Army OCS candidates are required to attend, and many Army ROTC graduates have attended, although it is not required for Army ROTC.

To give you an idea of the basic pre-commissioning training requirements, here’s a list of the programs currently available for officer commissionining in the U.S. Army and U.S. Marine Corps.:

I. USMA at West Point: Plebes attend a 6-8 week “basic camp” at Camp Buckner on the West Point campus in upstate New York during their “plebe summer” i.e., the summer before starting their plebe (freshman year). Instructors are tactical officers and NCO’s from FORSCOM units (typically 101st or 82nd Airborne);

II.ROTC: Several ways to get into this program. One is by taking four years worth of military science classes (MS1-MS4) from Freshman to Senior year on campus during college, and attend a six week “Advanced Camp” in the summer between junior and senior year at Fort Lewis in Washington State.

Enlisted members and NCO’s in the reserves and national guard who are full-time college students can join the ROTC unit at their campus as an “SMP” (Simultaneous Membership Program) member, which means they receive a waiver for the first two years of ROTC instruction (MS1-MS2), continue serving in their reserve or national guard unit as an E-5 cadet, complete MS3-MS4 years on campus, with only the six week Advanced Camp requirement at Fort Lewis to fulfill before they can be commissioned upon graduating from college.

Also, college sophomores who want to join ROTC, or those who have two years to graduation, can join ROTC as an “MS3” in their Junior Year by completing a six-week ROTC “Basic Camp” at Ft. Knox the summer before their junior year. This camp is run by TACs and senior NCOs as well, although most of the contact is with drill sergeants.

III.OCS (Officer’s Candidate School) at Fort Benning, GA is for college graduates of four-year accredited universities who want to become active-duty Army officers. They must complete eight weeks of enlisted basic training and 13 weeks of OCS before they can receive their commission.

IV. State ARNG (Army National Guard) OCS programs: Available in every state of the Union. These are exclusively commissioning programs for people who want to become officers in the National Guard or what is called “Guaranteed Reserve Force Duty.”

This program is basically a one-weekend a month officer candidate program that goes on for one year for enlisted members and NCOs currently serving in the National Guard who are college graduates.

Usually, for one year, the candidate attends a weekend-long training course every month in lieu of his/her unit’s regular drill, plus several weeks training in the summer, enabling them to receive their commissions as 2LT in their home national guard unit. Of course, they are considered reserve officers, not active duty or regular army officers.

V. The U.S. Marine Corps. also has a commissioning program through the Naval Academy route (USNA), Naval ROTC, and OCS. These programs require their officer candidates to attend pre-commissioning officer basic training in the summertime at Quantico or PI.

For college graduates or those who attend universites that do not have NROTC, there are also OCS programs, which requires officer candidates to attend a special 13-week OCS boot camp at Quantico before they can be considered for commissioning.

Enlisted members and NCO’s in the U.S. Marine Corps. can also be commissioned if they have a college degree and are selected to attend OCS. The U.S. Army has a similar program as well. However, these programs are only available to college graduates who do well on the Officer Battery Exam.

So in short, do not discount your officer friend who refers to having been trained by drill sergeants during basic training.

Obviously, this is a common experience for most officers, and suggests that that officer was either: 1) An OCS graduate who would’ve been required to complete enlisted basic training before attending OCS; 2) A “Mustang”, i.e., an officer who had prior enlisted service before receiving a commission through either OCS, ROTC or West Point; or 3) An ROTC graduate who attended ROTC “Basic Camp” at Ft. Knox, or an ROTC graduate who attended enlisted basic training as a USAR/ARNG enlisted soldier and served as an SMP cadet in a USAR/ARNG unit before commissioning.

Some quick things to add:

I went to OCS through a program called “Platoon Leader’s Course,” which is not a part of ROTC. (USMC ROTC guys go to Bulldog, which is a specialized one-session version of OCS.)

My platoon started with ~80 candidates. Out of 80, the majority were Prior Enlisted (sergeants and corporals, mostly, who had all been through PI). The rest of us were just a bunch of shameful college kids.

By the end of the ~7 weeks, 43 of us remained. I was among the 9 who were not Prior Enlisted.

So, like kmg sez, it’s likely that your friend has all his shit in one bag. :wink:

Very complete answer, kmg365, but two small points

OCS is only at Quantico, not Parris Island. OCS is the School, not the couse.

NROTC goes to Bulldog, six weeks at Quantico.

PLC (Platoon Leaders Class) is an alternate route to a Marine Commission, with either two 6 week courses, or one 10 week course.

OCC, or Officers Candidates Course, is 10 weeks, not 13.

Of course, on preview, Mr B. has said parts of this already.

Good catch, UncleBill. I skimmed over kmg365’s PI assertion on my own Preview.

Whewsh!

I think after reading all that the answer is, yes a Captain could indeed have been to something they might call in conversation “boot camp” and for sure to something officially called Basic Training, with a Sergeant being part of the equation.

Thanks everyone, this really has been an interesting glimpse into a world I know very little about.

I stand corrected. Thanks for the heads-up UncleBill & Mr. B.