I watched the “French Revolution” on the History Channel last night, so I know that Bastille Day is the day that the masses of Paris stormed the Bastille and destroyed it brick by brick, but this show rasied some questions:
Why is this day so celebrated? I understand the initial ideals of the French Revolution were centered around equality and the Rights of Man, but this show made it seem like it did not come off that way. Robspierre seemed like a brutal dictator to me (I don’t care how many people were on the Comittee of Public Safety) who ruled via terror and fear and made no bones about it. Before the revolution he spoke of a free press, universal suffrage, and equality, but apparently he didn’t implement any of these things (or he did and they were subsequently taken away). Disagreement with the revolution (or even the means of the revolution) meant a trip to the guillotine.
How is Robspierre viewed today by the French? Is he loathed as a mass murderer or looked at as a “founding father” or somewhere in between?
The show didn’t go into the post-Robspierre France to much, but his Reign of Terror seemed to lead directly to Napolean. Didn’t he crown himself King and Holy Roman Emperor? And wasn’t another king re-instated after Napoleon? How is that different then before the revolution?
Who changed all of the crazy laws that Robspierre put in place (new calander, chaging all the street names, etc.)?
When did France really get democracy? When did they establish a real constituition and have real elections? This seems like a more appropriate “Independence Day” to me.
Can anyone recommend a good book about the French Revolution or French Modern History? I want an interesting book that is not extremely long. And I don’t want to read several books as I am just doing this for fun.
Thanks all and forgive me if I misspelled any of the French names, etc.
What a laundry list. History test homework? Preparation for a quiz?
The Philly public library has one or more good encyclopaedias!
I’m sure you can look it just as easily as anyone else and save them the time and trouble of typing it all out in detail.
Of course if there are some dtails you can’t find come back with a FEW specific questions for answers.
Perhaps the refrence desk librarian will drop by and make a sugestion or you can consult with her in person at the library.
You are doing this just for fun and you want SDMB’ers to do for you that which you can and should do for yoursef?
Back off, sparky. I watched the History Channel ‘The French Revolution’ special last night, and those are questions I would like seeing answered. Good show, but didn’t go into great amounts of detail.
Why did you waste your time and post this? It really bothers me when people other than the mods think they are the thread police. If people weren’t allowed to post questions that they could go the library and look up, then GQ would have about 5 threads and they would all say “Help me fix my computer!”.
I certainly can read the encycolpeida, but I was hoping for some of the members answers to this. Nobody has to go in detail. And I am out of school, so there is no other motive here, just general interest. And is the reference desk going to answer how the French perceive Robspierre today?
AND, I did ask if anyone knows of a good book that would go into DETAIL about this sort of thing.
Are you sure you mean July 14, 1792 and not July 14, 1789, the day the Bastille was stormed? This was the first clearly revolutionary act of the French Revolution; everything before it was a prelude (from the convening of the Estates-General to the Tennis Court Oath to Louis XVI’s dismissal of Necker just before the Bastille was stormed). There are a lot of dates you could choose after the storming of the Bastille to celebrate French independence, such as June 21, 1791 (when Louis XVI was arrested at Varennes), the acceptance of the first constitution, or the execution of Louis XVI on January 21, 1793. These dates occur later in the revolution, and some of them were not of lasting significance (the early constitutions did not last, for example, and the monarchy was even restored). The storming of the Bastille is an early date, a clear date and an event that is not reversible or capable of being superseded. Moreover, people celebrated that date from the beginning; there were anniversary celebrations around July 14, 1790. So, even though the Revolution was stretched out over a very long period of time, July 14th came to be the traditional date for celebrating the chain of events that led to the (temporary) downfall of the French monarchy.
In answer to #6…just looking acroos the classroom, I can see the following on my shelves:
**The Days of the French Revolution ** - Christopher Hibbert
**The French Revolution ** - J. M. Thompson
**The French Revolution ** - Nesta Webster
**The French Revolution and Napoleon ** - Charles Hazen
**Citizens ** - Simon Schama
and that’s only on one shelf.
As for #1 - Why is any day celebrated? The French needed a day to celebrate the overthrow of the monarchy, and Bastille Day seemed jsut as good as any. Why do we celebrate July 4th? The declaration was presented on the 2nd, the war would take years. Why the 4th?
#2 - Dunno. Ask a Frenchman.
#3 - Actually, the Reign of Terror led to the Thermidorean Reaction and the Directory, which then led to Napoleon. As for the rest of it…well, that takes me about a week to cover in my AP Euro class.
#4 - Most of these were dumped either by the Directory or Napoleon. All except that silly “metric” system.
#5 - That would be the establishment of the Third Republic. But really, the US didn’t have a constitution until 1789, so why did we celebrate our bicentennial in 1976? You go with the earliest date that resonates with people. Celebration is about emotion, not facts.
Thanks, these are both valid and completely on point. I always assumed is was July 4th because that is the date on the Declaration of Independence, but it could just as reasonably be the date war ended, etc.
Even though France had monarchies and empires after the French Revolution, any post-revolution monarch was limited by the revolution. You need to remember that before the Revolution, (starting from Louis XIII or Louis XIV, maybe), the King’s power was more or less absolute. He was seen as ruling with a divine mandate, and he basically could do whatever he wanted, without regard to the population. The nobles, too, could treat the peasants as badly as they wanted, more or less.
Then the Revolution happened and all that changed. The King was killed, most of the nobles were killed, and liberal ideas, of the universal rights of man, liberty, equality, fraternity, etc., became part of the French mindset. So even though there were post Revolution monarchies, they were, because they had to be, liberal monarchies, just because the people, especially in Paris, were at that point, ready to riot if they thought their rights were being violated. Paris revolted in 1832 (the revolt in Les Miserables), and then more notably in 1848, and in 1870 (the Paris Commune).
So the Revoulution was important not because it ended the monarchy, but because it said that the state has to be subordinate to individual rights.
The same National Convention that allowed the Reign of Terror to take place eventually settled down and drafted a new constitution which set up a form of government called the “Directory”. It didn’t work very well; power was fragmented and the directors were corrupt. (Americans remember the Directors primarily because of their humiliating demand for a bribe during the “XYZ Affair”.) Napoleon eventually overthrew the Directory in a military coup.
Napoleon had himself crowned Emperor, not King and not Holy Roman Emperor! In fact, the existing Holy Roman Emperor abolished the office in 1806 partly out of fear that Napoleon would try to annex the title.
After the Napoleonic Wars (1803-1815), France did reinstall the Bourbon monarchy, with the kings subject to a Parliament. When King Charles X attempted to ignore Parliament and govern as an old-fashioned autocrat in 1830, he was overthrown.
In 1791 . . . and again in 1795 . . and again in 1848 . . . and again in 1871 . . . and again after World War II. Still, the key turning point was in 1789. From that date forward, it was clear that the ancien regime of hereditary nobles, a wealthy and powerful Catholic Church, and an autocratic Bourbon King was on life support, and one way or another the people would be heard.
You’re right that Robespierre is a somewhat controversial figure for the French - not that people spend their time discussing him or anything, but you’ll find that there aren’t too many statues of him around, and not a whole lot of streets named for him etc. There is a Métro station (and a street) called Robespierre in Montreuil, Paris though, so he hasn’t been entirely forgotten.
Good point. Nothing requires the “National Holiday” to be the anniversary of the founding of the body politic of the nation. Just a date that is held dear by the People (or the State) as representing something of extreme historic import.
Nope. The Les Mis riot was the riot that happened at the funeral of Lamarque in 1832. The July Revolution of 1830 had already happened by the time Les Mis took place.
From Book X, Chapter III
If you can find a copy of it (out of print but probably in a library you can get it from somewhere) and definitely available used, The real Figaro; the extraordinary career of Caron de Beaumarchais by Cynthia Cox was one I really enjoyed. Beaumarchais was a man who was a major player in aiding the American revolution, a teacher to the daughters of Louis and Marie, the writer of the plays which Mozart and Rossini made into thier great operas, (The Marriage of Figaro and The Barber of Seville, respectively), and a man who had just built a great mansion right next to the Bastille just at the time it was stormed. His survival of the revolution by the use of his pen amazes me.
The story of the man is indeed the story of his times. I think you might find a book such as this to be an easier read than a book on the French Revolution, as it explores so many facets of the era.
