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Old 07-28-2005, 05:56 PM
aerodave aerodave is offline
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To the assholes trying to ruin golf for my wife..a big FUCK YOU!

Nothing like a pointless sports rant to get the Dopers all excited...

My wife and I went to the golf course yesterday evening after work to get in a fun little 9-hole round. She's very new to the sport, only having played a handful of times. She only touched a club for the first time a couple months ago, and her experience has been limited to the driving range and the local Par-3. Right now though, after the initial frustration, she's going through a phase of really accelerated improvement, and is seriouly starting to enjoy playing the game.

Make no mistake, she's not going to be a low-handicapper anytime real soon. But I can honestly say she's picking up the game amazingly faster than I ever did. And that makes me very happy for her...it's nice to have a new activity we can enjoy together. Maybe soon she'll be good enough to kick my ass.

The course we played is one that I've been on a ton over the last few years, and is on the Air Force base where I work. It's not open to the general public (you have to be able to get on base) but it's by no means an exclusive club—keep this in mind. Hell, it's the cheapest 18 holes of golf anywhere around here. Usually when I go, it's pretty busy and the play can be slow. Most times, there are a lot of hackers out, and I don't mind because I'm a terrible golfer, too!

But yesterday was different. I don't know if it was because it was mid-week. Or maybe it was because it was cloudy and damp. But for whatever reason, there were no other shitty golfers to be found. My wife and I were officially the slowest, crappiest golfers out there yesterday. That's not a position I'm used to being in, and it's not a pleasant one either. I'd much rather wait on the group ahead than have someone breathing down my neck. I play even worse than usual when I'm rushed.

(This story has a point...I swear...)

But there were people bearing down on us. Every scratch golfer in the area must have started right behind us, because there was a constant stream of impatient (albeit talented) jackoffs coming up on us. The first group wasn't mean. They caught up to us after a couple holes, and I could tell by seeing them around the last green that they were pretty good. So I waved them through, no biggie.

But behind them were two 18-year-old-looking kids who reached the fourth tee box when we were taking our second shots on that hole. During my backswing I hear "We don't have all day!" We couldn't have put these pricks more than 30 seconds off their pace when they decide to yell that. When we reached the next tee box, we waited so they could go through. I didn't let them play through because they deserved it, but really for selfish reasons. As much as I wanted to keep them behind us and play extra slow, I knew there was no way I could play well with assholes like that behind me for 5 more holes. But as they went through, I told them it might be easier in the future if they'd "grow up and ask to play through." Oddly enough, it got no reaction. Fuckin' punks.

Then, a couple holes later, I'm in the middle of the fairway (Downrange-wise, anyway...Laterally, I was in somewhat taller grass). Out of nowhere, a ball rolls past me, only a few yards away. I look back at the teebox, and the shithead who hit it gives me a half-hearted wave that signalled something between "Sorry" and "Shouldn't have been in my way, asshole." The drive was too long and too straight to have come from an inexperienced golfer. Instead, it could only have been hit by someone with enough experience to know that we were within his range, that you don't hit up on people, and that you yell fucking "fore" if you accidentally do! It was obvious that this was a mean-spirited hit, and not an accident. I thought seriously about walking over to his ball and hitting it straight into the woods, or back at him, but I thought better of it. I'd hate to resort to the same level or shittiness. In the end, I followed the same line of reasoning I did for the last assholes, and let them go through.

Finally, when we're on the 8th fairway, one final foursome catches up to our tee box. There's no way they need to go through. We're half a fairway and a par-3 away from being done, so they aren't going to get held up that much. They stay as close as they can to us, anyway. When we're finished, we stopped in the clubhouse to take a pitstop.

As we're going out to the car, I hear "Hey, can I talk to you two?" And as I turn, I see one of the guys from that last group approaching us. I can tell already that this is gonna be great.

"You guys know that it's etiquette to keep pace on the course, right? And if you can't, you should let people play through."

"I'm aware, but it was the next to last hole. You really expect us to let you play through on the last hole? We added 2 minutes to your round, tops."

At this point, I'm merely annoyed at this guy's jack-assery. But then he said something that nearly caused me to grab my 9-iron and commit a horrible felony.

(Looking me up and down, noticing my running shoes, cheap clubs, and my age.) "You guys obviously haven't played here much, so you might not know how things work around here, but that kind of etiquette is important."

What. The. Fuck?! Did I mention that this isn't some exclusive country club? It's a $20-a-round course on a military base, for Christ's sake. A course normally full of t-shirt-wearing, pitch-mark-leaving hacks. And this waste of flesh has the nerve to talk to me like I'm not good enough to clean his golf spikes, much less go near "his" course.

He leaves by saying "It's alright, just remember it in the future." and slaps me on the shoulder, all friendly-like. I was far too shocked to say or do anything in response. All I could do was silently continue to leave, fuming. It's probably for the better. The only coherent things that I'd have likely been able to mutter at that point would have been either, A) over the top: "Touch me again and you'll be playing your next round from a wheelchair." or B) pathetic-sounding and wasted on his pompous ass: "My wife's trying to learn the game. Did it occur to you that every golfer, even yourself, was just starting out at some point ... ASS?!"

After all this, my wife is feeling a little disenchanted. In the span of a couple hours, she went from feeling good about the game and her abilities to putting a foot back in "golf is for elitist assholes" territory. The irony is that she had a great round and should have left feeling good about it. These gigantic douchebags robbed her of that. And that's what makes me more pissed off than anything. I don't care as much if I run into some total jerks, but her ability to enjoy this new hobby is still a bit fragile. If these cocksuckers cause her to abandon a brand new set of golf clubs, I'm recouping the value by tracking them down and shoving an oversized graphite-shafted lady's driver directly up their asses.

The worst part is, we weren't really playing that slow. My wife hit half the greens in regulation-plus-one...not too shabby for a total newbie. We finished our 9 holes in 2:20, and that includes significant time to let three groups of assholes play through. So we shouldn't have been holding the average golfer up. In fact, if left to our own, we'd have come in just under pace for that course. It was more of a case that everyone else out that day was really good and wanted to play really fast. That's in stark contrast to usual; I've never seen this before at this course. Sure, you see the ocasional fast players who are either really good or just in some sort of hurry. But usually, the majority of the players are keeping the same pace. And the ones who aren't are usually NICE about it.

If I feel I'm playing too slow, I'm happy to let people play through all day long. All I ask is for a little courtesy. It seems sometimes that that's far too much to ask. I'm not mad that people thought we were playing slow...I'm mad that they were all dicks about it.

So thank you, you stuck-up pieces of dogshit, for souring the game for her.

If you got held up reading all the way through this long-ass post, I'm sorry. Maybe I should hurry up...or let you "post through"
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Old 07-28-2005, 06:07 PM
ivylass ivylass is offline
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Don't let them ruin the game for her. Get her out again. I'm not sure of golf etiquette...can you complain to someone about their behavior?
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Old 07-28-2005, 06:19 PM
treis treis is offline
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Let me get this straight, you were playing slow, failed to let a group through and a member of that group politely confronted you about your breech of etiquette and he is a "stuck up piece of dogshit?"

Some of the people behind you were rude and that is inexcusable but take the freaking hint, 2 hours and 20 minutes is fucking ridiculous for a two-some.
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Old 07-28-2005, 06:20 PM
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I got the Pope on line two for you. He wants to talk about your cannonization, because you're a fucking saint not to have beaten anyone of those assholes into a damp spot on the putting green. Especially the smarmy cockbiter in the parking lot.
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Old 07-28-2005, 06:21 PM
Muffin Muffin is offline
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The last time I played golf, I accidentally plugged a person behind me in the forehead while teeing off (a rebound off a tree).

The second last time I played golf, I accidentally plugged a person behind me in the forehead while teeing off (backspin).

The third last time I played golf, I did not plug a person behind me in the forehead. I plugged a beaver crossing the fairway.

Might I suggest that you take me golfing the next time you and your wife hit the links. The two of you can golf while I cover your backs.
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Old 07-28-2005, 06:22 PM
Otto Otto is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aerodave
"I'm aware, but it was the next to last hole. You really expect us to let you play through on the last hole? We added 2 minutes to your round, tops."
Here was your mistake. Nothing you could say was going to justify your horrible (and imagined) breach to this douchebag. Trying to explain or justify your actions was only going to confirm whatever negative (false) impression he had of you.

Personally, I would've stared at him in silence until he went away, and then laughed at his retreating back.
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Old 07-28-2005, 06:35 PM
ENugent ENugent is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Muffin
I plugged a beaver crossing the fairway.
Pervert.

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Old 07-28-2005, 06:41 PM
duffer duffer is offline
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You just knew I'd pipe up here.

I'm the type that freely lets others through when I'm not playing a solo round. No skin off my ass to sit in the cart enjoying the sun and downing a cold one. *hic* The asspunk that hit at you though, should have had to watch you nail the ball right back at him. (But then, that's just me. I have a size advantage over most people)

I'm just going to focus on the last guy you encountered for now. There are 2 things happening.

1) You just got done playing 9 holes with a number of distractions and annoyances. I know how you feel. (I call them "Trees")

2) A group behind you saw that you wouldn't offer to let them play through when it sounds like everyone understood they were better players than you. So the guy came out and maybe judging by the appearance (appearance does have an effect on people that don't know you) thought maybe you were new to the game and wern't aware of proper ettiquette. Imagine how many of those 18 year olds they've encountered. So he probably thoght he was being polite and offering some advice. Of course, I wasn't there so I don't know how it was said. I'd likley do the same thing in an effort to help a newbie enjoy the game more.

That said, it would have good to mention to him something like, "My wife here wants to learn the game, we've been letting people through all day and at that hole we just wanted to finish so we could leave."

I can almost guarantee any golfer that respects the game would have understood and offered an encouraging word to your wife. Trust me, any golfer that isn't a fundamental asshole enjoys bringing people into the game and offering helpful tips be they technique or even ettiquette. It's kind of like a common bond between us.

I read the OP and maybe missed something, but it sounds like you're more frustrated with the asshats early in the game rather than the last guy. Even if I'm wrong, encourage your wife to keep playing. Excercise, fresh air and time alone together. You may have just had the misfortune of having every bad thing happen at once. It's rare, get back out there!
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Old 07-28-2005, 06:58 PM
aerodave aerodave is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by treis
2 hours and 20 minutes is fucking ridiculous for a two-some.
You are absolutely correct. I don't know what I didn't see it your way before.

Look, we fell 10-15 minutes behind pace for the front 9, after spending 20+ minutes courteously letting a bunch of people play through. While I appreciate that pace is based on a foursome, it's important to remember that one of the two of us had never even seen a hole longer than 250 yards before. And while I knew we weren't playing slow in an absolute sense, I didn't want to hold anyone up. So I let people go through more readily than anyone would be expected to. More readily even than etiquette would dictate. It's not my fault people behind us couldn't wait 30 seconds to get waved through.

You're giving me shit because I didn't let the last group finish ahead of us? How is it better to let a foursome play through a twosome on the last and shortest hole on the course? We shouldn't be expected to wait 10 minutes to let them finish when we could be done in 5. Did I mention it was the last hole? Besides, we had kept up with the last people we let through.

The guy wasn't polite about it either. He was a smug jackass. Kinda like you're being righ't now, treis. If any of the pricks I met yesterday need a fourth, I know who they can call.
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Old 07-28-2005, 08:13 PM
Ashes, Ashes Ashes, Ashes is offline
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2 hours and twenty minutes doesn't sound so horrible to me, even for a two-some, when you consider one of them is a begginer. Add to that they were letting everybody and their brother play through and I definitely understand where the time went.

It sounds like that last guy had a little speech he wanted to make and wasn't going to let anything like actually listening to your explanation get in his way. Why, if he had to reconsider, he might not get to be the BMOC (course, not campus, don't cha know). I've seen guys like him on podunk courses who act as though they're playing on the swankiest of the swank courses. Condescending, know-it-all, self-aggrandizing elitists. Luckily for me, they are also letches about half the time. Though annoying when they want to help me with my swing, I can handle that brand of breathing down my neck better than what aerodave had to put up with. Eesh, it appears I've become bitter.

I haven't played in ages, but I remember we were out there to have a good time playing a game. You can take the sport seriously with letting it turn you into an ass. Slow down, enjoy the day, clean your clubs a little or whatever, if you find yourself in the godawful position of having to be polite and wait a whole two minutes.
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Old 07-28-2005, 09:46 PM
aruvqan aruvqan is offline
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let it be known that I detest golf, and think it is the silliest activity called a sport there is...but that last guy was an utter idiot.

Just keep playing with your wife, and have fun. As long as she still wants to play, it is fine - and hopefully you will never encounter that guy again!
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Old 07-28-2005, 10:08 PM
duffer duffer is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aruvqan
Just keep playing with your wife, and have fun. As long as she still wants to play, it is fine - and hopefully you will never encounter that guy again!

Just to keep everyone on track, aruvqan is referring to the game of golf.


Fucking perverts!
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Old 07-28-2005, 11:04 PM
E-Sabbath E-Sabbath is offline
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You know, I have a good and firm response to people who do that clap on the shoulder.

It's called the 'wet willie'. Nobody expects it, and it really shreds their entire day.
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Old 07-28-2005, 11:07 PM
duffer duffer is offline
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Or "stink-palm" from Mallrats. Depending on your mood.
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Old 07-29-2005, 01:01 AM
threemae threemae is offline
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The etiquette arguments, the counterarguments, the insinuations, the insults, golf makes my head spin. It reminds me of a Family Guy Scene:

Peter: Why my great great great great grandfather invented the game of Golf!
[Flashback to historic Scottish scene]
Peter's Relative: So then we're clear on the rules: no blacks and no Jews...
  #16  
Old 07-29-2005, 01:22 AM
duffer duffer is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by threemae
The etiquette arguments, the counterarguments, the insinuations, the insults, golf makes my head spin. It reminds me of a Family Guy Scene:

Peter: Why my great great great great grandfather invented the game of Golf!
[Flashback to historic Scottish scene]
Peter's Relative: So then we're clear on the rules: no blacks and no Jews...
Withholding comment assuming this is a joke?
  #17  
Old 07-29-2005, 05:00 AM
irishgirl irishgirl is offline
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aerodave-take your wife to the driving range. Let her imagine that the ball is the head of whichever of the asshole she chooses.

Tell her to hit the balls as hard as she can, and if at the end of if she's got 5 balls past whatever marker you consider to be an achievable challenge, you'll take her to dinner at her favourite restaurant. Even if she doesn't get the challenge, take her anyway.

My dad did this for my mother every time some assholes pissed them off when she was learning. It got out the frustration, improved her long game and gave her a treat to cheer her up.
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Old 07-29-2005, 05:03 AM
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irishgirl, that is a very sensible response, a win-win sort of idea!
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Old 07-29-2005, 06:13 AM
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Hoo boy, I guess I'm the lone dissenter. Again. I don't see that anybody tried to ruin the game for your wife, except maybe you, by taking her out unprepared for her first real round. The guy in the parking lot was a lot nicer to you than you were to the 18-year-old. And yes, you should let people play through even if it's the last hole. It isn't only about the amount of time. It's about the rhythm of the game. You called other slow players "shitty" and "hackers". But when you were the slow player, suddenly there was every manner of justification and rationalization. I think that this is nothing more than an example of being unable to see something from any point of view other than your own. I know you love your wife, but nobody else does. To them, she (and probably you), was just a chink in the armor of an otherwise pleasant afternoon. Next time you find yourself being the slowest twosome, eat some humble pie, accept your status, and behave like the low totems you are. Also, dress appropriately to play golf. It's stupid to join in with people dressing like slackers and then complain that it's a course comprised of slack dressers.
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Old 07-29-2005, 06:44 AM
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I'm a polite "let other people play through" type but I don't think Iwould have allowed a foursome to play through ahead of my pairing in the circumstances of the OP. I presume the 8th hole is a par 4 and they have been caught by the foursome behind arriving at the tee before they play their approach shots. No-one calls through the next group from the middle of the fairway. Presumably the OP and his wife arrive at the tee for the par3 9th while the foursome putt out on the 8th. Well bad luck guys when you arrive at the 9th tee I wont let you play through either...if I haven't left the tee I will ask if they want to be called on when my partner and I are on the green but that's all.

I have played midweek rounds where you are continually run down by groups playing stableford or skins. On every second hole half of them pick up and next thing you know they are disrupting your proper strokeplay round.
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Old 07-29-2005, 06:55 AM
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I got the impression that they played the back nine, unless he meant that the 9th hole was the last hole for everybody. From the OP: "I'm aware, but it was the next to last hole. You really expect us to let you play through on the last hole? We added 2 minutes to your round, tops." If he dug in on the actual 8th hole, he's even more of a jackass.
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Old 07-29-2005, 06:57 AM
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Zakalwe Zakalwe is offline
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I'm somewhere in the middle on this, the kids were rude, as was the guy who hit into you, but, 2.20 for a twosome playing nine is extremely slow play. I've only been playing for about a year and a half and can get through 18 in 3.30 as part of a twosome. Regardless of quality of play, there is no reason a foursome should ever catch a twosome on the course.

Here's a couple of hints, when the course is crowded and you get to triple bogey, pick up. If your wife is in trouble, have her pick up and move forward to drop with you. That way she still gets some practice in. Do NOT give her advice or have her practice a stroke on a crowded course. That's what the driving range and playing lessons are for (when they'll make sure that the course is reasonably clear). Play ready golf (ie, don't wait for the other golfer to finish shooting before selecting a club - be standing over your ball ready to hit as soon as the other player hits). Don't spend more than a minute or two looking for a lost ball.

Obviously, all of these can be relaxed if you're not being pushed, but Liberal is right, golf is very much a game of rhythm and having that destroyed because of slow play is very frustrating.
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Old 07-29-2005, 07:04 AM
don't ask don't ask is offline
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Doesn't matter back or front 9. They are only playing 9. He says?

"Finally, when we're on the 8th fairway, one final foursome catches up to our tee box. There's no way they need to go through. We're half a fairway and a par-3 away from being done, so they aren't going to get held up that much. They stay as close as they can to us, anyway. When we're finished, we stopped in the clubhouse to take a pitstop."

I don't call bigger groups to tee off when I'm playing my approach from the fairway either so I guess I'm a jackass too.
  #24  
Old 07-29-2005, 07:04 AM
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AncientHumanoid AncientHumanoid is offline
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One time I went to the driving range wearing swim trunks and flippers, shoulder pads (outside my t-shirt), a motorcycle helmet with a dark face shield, and carrying a baseball bat.

They wouldn't let me on.






It was a dare, and so worth it to see the faces on everyone (it was rather busy that day).
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Old 07-29-2005, 07:19 AM
Liberal Liberal is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by don't ask
Doesn't matter back or front 9.
It seemed to matter to him. His rationale for digging in was that the round was almost finished, presumably for the people he held up.
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Old 07-29-2005, 07:29 AM
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aerodave, while I sympathize with you on the jerk in the parking lot, I'd like to offer some advice. My wife plays also, and when we play together, riding in a cart, we play a regulation 9 holes in an hour and 20 minutes.

Here's why:

When I tee off, she drives the cart to whatever forward tees she's playing from. By the time I walk up to her tee, she's finished her practice swing and hit. Let's say her ball is closest. We drive to her ball, she picks her club and prepares to hit, if I'm not in the way, I'll drive to my ball and pull a club. By the time my wife hits her ball, I'm ready and hit mine. She walks over to the cart and off we go. If I missed the green to the right, say, I'll grab my putter and two or three clubs, just in case. (It kills me to see a newbie walk from the cart with one club, chip on the green, then walk back to the cart to get their putter).

Whoever is closest to the pin pulls the stick, while the away player lines up their putt. Then putt out! No marking unless your in someone's line. You would not believe the amount of time that is saved while playing as I have described. My regular Saturday and Sunday foursome (which sometimes includes my wife) will play 18 holes riding a cart in three and a half hours.

The bottom line is, and I've said this to newbies on the first tee, nobody cares if you suck, they care if you're slow. I've played with people who couldn't break a 100 with an eraser on the pencil who did it in three hours, and I've played with 3 handicap prima donnas who couldn't play any faster than a four and a half hour pace. I'd rather play with the former.
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Old 07-29-2005, 07:52 AM
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I spent a huge chunk of my childhood on a golf course and this thread is giving me horrible flashbacks.

It's times like this when I remember just how much I hate golf.
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Old 07-29-2005, 07:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jsgoddess
I spent a huge chunk of my childhood on a golf course and this thread is giving me horrible flashbacks.

It's times like this when I remember just how much I hate golf.


They use you as a target?
  #29  
Old 07-29-2005, 07:54 AM
PunditLisa PunditLisa is offline
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I don't play golf. Don't care to play golf. The OP is part of the reason why. You can't get good unless you practice yet no one wants you to play unless you're good.

I think the guy in the parking lot was trying to be nice. I do understand the OPers' frustration. I play tennis and there are times when people are waiting to play. I play my worst game when I feel pressured, even if the people waiting are doing nothing but sitting there. I can't imagine if someone said some of the comments that were said to the OPer.

I also understand the OPers' rationale to go ahead and play it out on the 8th hole. It's like letting someone ahead of you in the grocery line if you have 1000 items and he only has two. I'll let one guy get ahead of me, but after that I draw the line. Eventually my right to get through the line supercedes your convenience.

As to the Oper, I would keep plugging at it if for no other reason than because it's a shared interest. However, when making reservations, I would ask the rep what the unposted, yet commonly known, rules are as they vary from course to course. For instance, at Club X, morning and early afternoon tee times are generally reserved for those who know what they are doing. Late afternoons/evenings are for social groups and hackers. If everyone is aware of these loosely written rules, then everyone's happy. Or, as happy as one can be playing golf.
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Old 07-29-2005, 08:06 AM
Bites When Provoked Bites When Provoked is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by duffer
Withholding comment assuming this is a joke?
Since he's quoting a comedy program, it seems that'd be the logical assumption.
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Old 07-29-2005, 08:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NoClueBoy
They use you as a target?
You laugh!

As a kid, the number of rules and regulations and assholes and everything annoying about being on a golfcourse is magnified about ten times.

I did get to have pickled eggs sometimes, though. I liked pickled eggs.
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Old 07-29-2005, 08:20 AM
VarlosZ VarlosZ is offline
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As a long-suffering shitty golfer, I can confirm that you don't have to play good to play fast. Follow some of the specific advice in this thread, and always hustle. That said, you were subject to some very rude behavior.

Quote:
Then, a couple holes later, I'm in the middle of the fairway (Downrange-wise, anyway...Laterally, I was in somewhat taller grass). Out of nowhere, a ball rolls past me, only a few yards away . . . I thought seriously about walking over to his ball and hitting it straight into the woods, or back at him, but I thought better of it.
Nah, you don't do that. It's like throwing a temper tantrum; very unclassy. What you do is calmly walk up to his ball and slip it into your pocket. Mine now, asshole.
  #33  
Old 07-29-2005, 08:20 AM
Beware of Doug Beware of Doug is offline
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You can never be too sure when the B-word and the J-word are invoked...

About learning golf: There does seem to be some reluctance to let down the drawbridge. I asked to join the golf team as a new 9th grader at a shmancy boarding school. I was told that there was no room for anybody who wasn't already a competent player. (At age fourteen.)

I guess you're supposed to have money and time both.
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Old 07-29-2005, 08:24 AM
Beware of Doug Beware of Doug is offline
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always quote when it's busy...always.

Quote:
duffer: Withholding comment assuming this is a joke?

Bites when Provoked: Since he's quoting a comedy program, it seems that'd be the logical assumption.
One can never be too sure when the B-word and/or the J-word are invoked...

About learning golf: There does seem to be some reluctance to let down the drawbridge. I asked to join the golf team as a new 9th grader at a shmancy boarding school. I was told that there was no room for anybody who wasn't already a competent player. (At age fourteen.)

I guess you're supposed to have money and time both.
  #35  
Old 07-29-2005, 08:31 AM
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I stopped playing golf a while back. I've actually been thinking about picking it up again. I played a charity tourny and shot really well and had fun, which is just enough to give me the itch to play again. I've also talked with my SO about teaching her to play. It would be a fun thing for a couple to do together.

However, it's stories like that of the OP that give me pause. People who play golf just tend to be assholes of the highest order. I don't know why, but the game just attracts jerks. Cheap courses have t-shirt wearing lower class jerks. Expensive courses have silk shirt wearing upper class jerks. There's no avoiding it!

What annoys me is when you have a full course. You wait at every tee for the group in front of you. They are waiting for the group in front of them, and so on. Then you inevitably get the jerks behind you that are riding your ass and mumbling about how long you take. Hey, idiots: if you play ahead of me, you're just going to be waiting for the next group! This happens literally almost every time I play the game.

The idea of trying to teach my fiance to play while dealing with this idiocy is more than I can stand. So, I've been putting it off.

In the meantime, I've been loving archery. I'd recommend it to anyone. The startup costs are about the same as golf. It's using muscle memory and distance estimation, just like golf. In New England, and probably the rest of the country, there are many active leagues. You go and shoot at 15 targets (like a front 9), head to the clubhouse to get a burger and a soda (no drinking, ever), then head out to shoot the next 15 targets (like a back 9). It takes about the same time as 18 holes of golf. You shoot in groups of 2-4, and there is sometimes a wait at each target. However, the key difference between archery and golf is that people aren't total assholes about everything! Everybody gets along and enjoys the sport together.
  #36  
Old 07-29-2005, 08:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Debaser
The idea of trying to teach my fiance to play while dealing with this idiocy is more than I can stand. So, I've been putting it off.
If you want your fiance to continue to be and turn into your wife, DO NOT, I repeat, DO NOT try to teach her how to play. Get her lessons. My wife took lessons via a local rec center. Then when we played she just had to learn the unwritten etiquette. IMHO, unless you are a teaching pro or a scratch golfer, you have no business trying to teach some one else how to swing a golf club.
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Old 07-29-2005, 08:53 AM
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Yep. You are correct, of course. It took me a few lessons just do undo the damage my friends did teaching me to play.

My plan would be to get her lessons. Then I would "teach" her to play: Scoring, etiquitte, strategy, what club to use, etc. Lessons pretty much end with how to swing the club, there's a lot more to it than that which basically anybody can teach.
  #38  
Old 07-29-2005, 09:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aerodave
Then, a couple holes later, I'm in the middle of the fairway (Downrange-wise, anyway...Laterally, I was in somewhat taller grass). Out of nowhere, a ball rolls past me, only a few yards away. I look back at the teebox, and the shithead who hit it gives me a half-hearted wave that signalled something between "Sorry" and "Shouldn't have been in my way, asshole." The drive was too long and too straight to have come from an inexperienced golfer. Instead, it could only have been hit by someone with enough experience to know that we were within his range, that you don't hit up on people, and that you yell fucking "fore" if you accidentally do! It was obvious that this was a mean-spirited hit, and not an accident. I thought seriously about walking over to his ball and hitting it straight into the woods, or back at him, but I thought better of it.
Of course, the appropriate response is to calmly step on the ball, and force it into the turf until only the top is visible.
  #39  
Old 07-29-2005, 09:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NoClueBoy
They use you as a target?
She was in the bear costume driving the ball collecting machine.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Debaser
You go and shoot at 15 targets (like a front 9), head to the clubhouse to get a burger and a soda (no drinking, ever),<snip>
Ohh, you're no fun.
Quote:
However, the key difference between archery and golf is that people aren't total assholes about everything! Everybody gets along and enjoys the sport together.
Probably something about the fact that everyone could easily puncture everyone else's lung easily. Sure, you can wallop someone with a golf club, but archery is a sport in which you are learning to aim for center mass. I'd think twice before being a dick on an archery range.

You brought back some fun YMCA summer camp memories. Archery, eh... Maybe if I were less poor.
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  #40  
Old 07-29-2005, 09:44 AM
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My recent experiences would seem to indicate that assholes will be assholes, whether you are slowing them up or not.
I spent a golfing weekend with some ladies, and we got hit into on a regular basis.
Now, before everyone tells me we must have been playing slow, let me assure you that we weren't. I was by far the worst player, but I play by my own rules (a select few: if the ball lands somewhere off the fairway, pick it up and put it back on the fairway, more than two putts and you pick up the ball and walk away)
Most of the ladies played golf very regularly, and a couple of the girls were so good the course marshall kept telling them to hit from the men's tees.

And yet...several different groups of jackasses nearly hit us over and over again. And not in the "good lord! My ball hit a tree and sailed off in a whole different direction" way, either.

Jerks will be jerks.
Don't let them chase you away. It is still a fun game.
  #41  
Old 07-29-2005, 09:51 AM
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I'm only going to defend my time one last time. I should never have posted the 2:20 figure and expect some people to use their own brains to adjust for the fact that the fast players actually slowed us down significantly when we let them play through. That's apparently far too difficult a concept for a few here to grasp. The point is, we'd have finished in less than two hours if it weren't for anyone else. And we were walking, not riding in a cart like a couple lazy SOBs.

Pace for this course, according to the card, is 4:15. I assume this is for a walking foursome. It's not a course where carts are required or even preferred. There are usually more walkers than riders...it's a military course, whaddya expect?

I don't care where you're playing...3:30 for 18 or 1:20 for 9 holes is fast, even in a cart. Not crazy fast...it's certainly doable, but don't delude yourself by thinking that's normal. I'm not saying our "unmolested" pace of just under 2 hours for walking nine is fast at all, but it's not slow, either.

And, Liberal, I don't know what led you to believe that she was in any was "unprepared" for a real round. It's that snotty, elitist attitude that is precisely the problem. BoD aptly summed up that attitude when he said, "there was no room for anybody who wasn't already a competent player." She was not causing any undue slowness. Hell, she was probably the fast one of the two of us, since I had a bad round and spent too much time zig-zagging every hole. At least she spent the whole round in the fairways. I've been part of much slower groups when partnered with much "better" players. Don't blame her, jackass.

Also, I said nothing about being dressed like a slacker. I said I had on tennis shoes. Other than that, I was dressed more "appropriately" than is typical for this course, which has no dress code. You seem to think I was wearing a worn-out Iron Maiden T-shirt and holey jeans, and using the wrong end of all my clubs. Besides, dress has nothing to do with it unless it's an expected rule of the course. If I spend an evening behind a guy who's still wearing his BDU pants, I should't feel too bad if I'm not wearing my finest apparel. As long as my caddy doesn't out-dress me, I'll be okay. There you go again with your snobbery.

Finally, I never excluded myself from the "shitty hacker" crowd. My only point in referring to all the others I usually see is that I'm used to being surrounded more "average" golfers. And the average golfer sucks, a lot. Instead, I picked the one day when everyone was a snobby, impatient prick. BF said, "No one cares if you suck, they care if you're slow." I counter thusly: "I don't care if you're faster than me, I care if you're an asshole about it."

irishgirl, I really like your suggestion. Reward-based training and an outlet for pent-up rage all in one. Maybe we'll do that tonight.

She's felling a little less pissed off now that a couple days has passed. But she still sounds reluctant to try the same course again, convinced that only dicks play there. What a shame.
  #42  
Old 07-29-2005, 10:00 AM
Beware of Doug Beware of Doug is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Debaser
People who play golf just tend to be assholes of the highest order. I don't know why, but the game just attracts jerks. Cheap courses have t-shirt wearing lower class jerks. Expensive courses have silk shirt wearing upper class jerks. There's no avoiding it!
Of course you know the game originated in ancient Scotland, where the dominant mode of social interaction was beating the living shit out of one another. Golf arose as a way to put the ubiquitous clubs, and the nastiness behind them, to a more peaceful use.
  #43  
Old 07-29-2005, 10:03 AM
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I want to take up golf again and get my wife interested. I won't get her out until the weather cools but I'm just going to get her a set of clubs and take the loss if she doesn't like it. My mom is interested in getting back into it so if worse comes to worse I'll give the clubs to her. I'll probably take my wife to the driving range once or twice but I will follow the advice to let someone else teach her. I was never really good but competent enough I could play 18 in an equally bad foursome without too many people needing to play through. I try to never let assholes ruin my day.
  #44  
Old 07-29-2005, 10:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beware of Doug
One can never be too sure when the B-word and/or the J-word are invoked...
Also, it's the most pointedly offensive program on broadcast TV, pushing the envelope until it's stretched all out of shape. If you don't find a quote offensive it's because you didn't see the visuals that went with it.
  #45  
Old 07-29-2005, 10:23 AM
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Oddly, I've never really had this problem. I used to play on a semi-exclusive club (you didn't have to be rich, but it was a very nice club in rural Indiana) and people there were really friendly.
  #46  
Old 07-29-2005, 10:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Aerodave
There you go again with your snobbery.
Maybe if you're gonna call someone a snob, you shouldn't lead with zoinkers like, "That's apparently far too difficult a concept for a few here to grasp." Look, I don't mean to disparage either you or your wife, and I think you and I are just getting off on the wrong foot here. But I wonder whether you'd be willing to consider that maybe — just maybe is all I"m saying — golf isn't the game for you. It really isn't a game that was designed for the general riffraff to come out on a warm day and gawk at the hoity toity. That can only lead to class envy and petty jealousies. If I may make a suggestion, you might enjoy a fun and raucous game of pool. I've never seen a pool hall where sneakers weren't welcome.
  #47  
Old 07-29-2005, 10:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Debaser
In the meantime, I've been loving archery. I'd recommend it to anyone. The startup costs are about the same as golf. It's using muscle memory and distance estimation, just like golf. In New England, and probably the rest of the country, there are many active leagues. You go and shoot at 15 targets (like a front 9), head to the clubhouse to get a burger and a soda (no drinking, ever), then head out to shoot the next 15 targets (like a back 9). It takes about the same time as 18 holes of golf. You shoot in groups of 2-4, and there is sometimes a wait at each target. However, the key difference between archery and golf is that people aren't total assholes about everything! Everybody gets along and enjoys the sport together.
And you can even play archery golf! I played in organized fun tournaments when I was an active archer (at CFB Petawawa in the 70's), with mixed foursomes of two golfers and two archers. It's particularly fun if you do a lot of field archery, and are already used to shooting at varying distances in a round.
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Old 07-29-2005, 10:45 AM
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The USGA defines an avid golfer as one who plays over 24 rounds a year. I average 110 rounds a year and I've been playing for a solid 10 years at that rate. I can assure you, aerodave, that there are number of assholes from every social strata in this country that play golf, thankfully they are a minority. Find another course. You'd be surprised at how attitudes are different with the regulars from course to course, including etiquette tolerances.

As for speed, sorry, anything over an hour and a half for a walking twosome is considered dickin' the dog, so to speak. I know that there are some courses around here that consider a pace of 4:15 or 4:30 for 18 holes ok. I don't play those courses because that 4:30 easily can become 5:10. At my home course, the majority of players who tee off early are seniors (some as old as 80), and they're all walking. And they finish 18 holes in less than four hours.
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Old 07-29-2005, 10:49 AM
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Originally Posted by PunditLisa
I don't play golf. Don't care to play golf. The OP is part of the reason why. You can't get good unless you practice yet no one wants you to play unless you're good.
This sounds a helluva lot like my feelings about 90% of sports. Pity a lot of people in hiring positions have the same attitude about tasks, too - if you can do 99% with your eyes closed but haven't touched that other 1% they don't want you. What, they were born knowing or something?
  #50  
Old 07-29-2005, 11:05 AM
Jackmannii Jackmannii is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BF
As for speed, sorry, anything over an hour and a half for a walking twosome is considered dickin' the dog, so to speak. I know that there are some courses around here that consider a pace of 4:15 or 4:30 for 18 holes ok.
On the public courses I played over the years, 4 to 4 and a half hours per 18 holes was a pretty standard time on a crowded course.

The slowest players in my experience were the ones with the electric carts. They'd speed off to where their shots had entered the rough (or woods, or water) and then spend eons in a hopeless search for lost balls.

Come to think of it, that last line could equally apply to over-aggressive golfers demanding to instantly play through.
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