But, Mr. Francis, you are a rapist.

[D_Odds]

‘Baby, Give Me a Kiss’, LA Times, August 6, 2006

In a news release, Francis said at the time: “I won’t sit back and be called a rapist. Rape is a very serious crime that I personally find disgusting. As a son, and as the brother to three sisters I love very much, I would NEVER have sex with a woman without her consent.”

However, from earlier in the article:

When I talk to Szyszka seven days later, she says she “didn’t quite realize” she was being filmed. “But I didn’t care because I was drunk and who cares?” Then she adds: “It didn’t feel good to me at all, but I was totally faking it because I was on ‘Girls Gone Wild.’”

Eventually, Szyszka says, Francis told the cameraman to leave and pushed her back on the bed, undid his jeans and climbed on top of her. “I told him it hurt, and he kept doing it. And I keep telling him it hurts. I said, ‘No’ twice in the beginning, and during I started saying, ‘Oh, my god, it hurts.’ I kept telling him it hurt, but he kept going, and he said he was sorry but kissed me so I wouldn’t keep talking.”

Afterward, she says, Francis cleaned them both off with a paper towel and told her to get dressed. Then, she says, he opened the door and told the cameraman to come back, saying, “She’s not a virgin anymore.”

Szyszka says Francis told her that what happened had to stay between them. She says she agreed, and they walked to the front of the bus…

She’s confused, she admits, about what happened. She feels guilty, she says, for getting herself into the situation in the first place. She says she never would have undressed for the cameras if she hadn’t been completely drunk. And she is adamant that she said “no” to Francis. She says she’s haunted by that night.

“I feel like it was planned,” she says. “Sometimes I’m driving along, and I think about it and all of a sudden feel weird.”

So, not only did Joe Francis, of Girls Gone Wild fame and fortune, ply an 18 year old girl with alcohol, not only did he rape her, but he’s got her believing it is her fault for getting into that situation in the first place.

But don’t call him a rapist, because it’s a serious crime.

Why can’t just a few Miss Szyszkas of the world come forward and put the Joe Francises of the world (and this likely includes many pornographers) behind bars for a long, long time. It is not like the world would miss him (sadly, it’s also not like another wouldn’t step in to fill the void, either).

[Lord_Ashtar]

Wow. Just…wow.

[FatBaldGuy]

Here is a current IMHO thread concerning the same column.

[Darkhold]

[QUOTE=D_Odds]
When I talk to Szyszka seven days later, she says she “didn’t quite realize” she was being filmed. “But I didn’t care because I was drunk and who cares?” Then she adds: “It didn’t feel good to me at all, but I was totally faking it because I was on ‘Girls Gone Wild.’”
[/QUOTE]
Uh…what? She didn’t realize she was being filmed but she knew she was on Girls Gone Wild and there was a cameraman in the room?..Is there something I’m missing?

The whole article is baffling and in a few spots it seems like the reporter does indeed have a huge axe to grind.

It’s then that it hits me: This is so much bigger than Francis. In a culture where cheap and portable video technology lets everyone play at stardom, and where America’s voyeuristic appetite for reality television seems insatiable, teenagers, like the ones in this club, see cameras as validation. “Most guys want to have sex with me and maybe I could meet one new guy, but if I get filmed everyone could see me,” Bultema says. “If you do this, you might get noticed by somebody—to be an actress or a model.”

Plus what kind of a moron rapes a girl with a reporter riding around on a bus with him? Most of the girl’s story seems confused and influenced by after the fact rationalizations. I’m not saying she wasn’t raped but the whole thing seems awfully bizarre to me.

The article is also pretty clear she was drunk long before the GGW van showed up and was twirling around the stripper pole when they got to her. This wasn’t someone they grabbed off of the street and forced liquor down her throat.

Disclaimer: I fully acknowledge that if this girl was raped after she did say no that makes me into a huge asshole for doubting this story but I can’t help it. Just smells all sorts of wrong to me. I also acknowledge that Francis is a sleezebag of the highest order (well I’ve never actually seen GGW so they may be works of art that will echo down the generations just going from my impression of the commericals he puts out)

[D_Odds]

I had missed that. While his treatment of the reporter was itself despicable (and the impetus for the title of the column), it pales next to his treatment of Miss Szyszka. I would be very, very surprised if that was an isolated incident.

Another young lady interviewed for the article talks about how a GGW video might be her first step towards fame.

“If you do this, you might get noticed by somebody – to be an actress or a model.”

The Francises of the world convince young, naïve women this and take advantage of it. If that were my step-daughter telling me the story, I truly believe you would next see me in handcuffs and Joe Francis on a gurney, preferably with the sheet pulled over his head.

[Eonwe]

[QUOTE=Darkhold]

The whole article is baffling and in a few spots it seems like the reporter does indeed have a huge axe to grind.Plus what kind of a moron rapes a girl with a reporter riding around on a bus with him? Most of the girl’s story seems confused and influenced by after the fact rationalizations. I’m not saying she wasn’t raped but the whole thing seems awfully bizarre to me.

The article is also pretty clear she was drunk long before the GGW van showed up and was twirling around the stripper pole when they got to her. This wasn’t someone they grabbed off of the street and forced liquor down her throat.

Disclaimer: I fully acknowledge that if this girl was raped after she did say no that makes me into a huge asshole for doubting this story but I can’t help it. Just smells all sorts of wrong to me. I also acknowledge that Francis is a sleezebag of the highest order (well I’ve never actually seen GGW so they may be works of art that will echo down the generations just going from my impression of the commericals he puts out)
[/QUOTE]

The thing is awfully bizarre. The things that some young women will do without having a compelling reason, or a sense of a safe environment, in order to satisfy some urge to be loved/noticed/popular (particularly after getting drunk, which is often done to help satisfy those same needs) is pretty bizarre, but true.

The fact that there are throngs of men who are willing to take advantage of those same women, fully knowing that those women are making choices that are not in their own best interests, knowing that those women are drunk, and knowing that they can probably count on the women not mentioning any questionable acts to anyone because of their guilt/mixed feelings, is pretty bizarre. But true. And sick.

Assholes like Francis, who deliberately and maliciously push the boundaries of consent and who intentionally prey upon those who are too weak-willed to realise what sort of mess they’re getting into, are the exact people for whom consent and date-rape laws were written for.

He’s got a situation where enough i’s are dotted and t’s crossed that he can get away with what in many situations would be called rape.

He’s lucky that enough women don’t seem aware that signing release forms to allow oneself to be filmed doing sexual acts, and getting horribly drunk, and being filmed by a guy with wealth and power, puts one in a very dangerous situation. You are pretty much at the mercy of that individual. That’s a lot of trust to put into someone who is obviously a jerk who holds women in very low regard.

[Bricker]

If the girl’s story is believed in full, THEN Mr. Francis is a rapist.

He seems to be denying it.

Why do you automatically credit the girl’s version?

[Omegaman]

[QUOTE=D_Odds It is not like the world would miss him (sadly, it’s also not like another wouldn’t step in to fill the void, either).[/QUOTE]

The only way to stop it is to not buy his (their) garbage.

I for one have not and will not .

[Eonwe]

[QUOTE=Bricker]
If the girl’s story is believed in full, THEN Mr. Francis is a rapist.

He seems to be denying it.

Why do you automatically credit the girl’s version?
[/QUOTE]

Well, I happen to find her story a much more likely story. If I had to guess what was more likely, that a rich pornographer who has a history of being accused of threatening women physically (and has had a restraining order on him and settled a case out of court) took advantage of a young, drunk woman, or that a young woman is lying about the story presented in the article, I’d tend to believe the woman over Mr. Francis (or whomever).

I could be wrong, but it does seem a more plausable story than his. And, I haven’t accused him of rape, but merely of being a scum and asshole. I agree that the situation is complicated and unclear, which, IMHO, enables Mr. Francis to take advantage of his position and power.

[D_Odds]

I’m not going to play lawyer with you, Bricker. I’d lose. I also know you’ve got a horse in the Duke thread about false accusations (which, in the Duke case, I believe to be accurate). I am operating under the assumption that the report is mostly accurate - if, as happened in the Duke case, further information comes to light (this was just printed Sunday), I reserve the right to alter my assumption. At this point, there are no formal accusations against Joe Francis in this case. Miss Szyszka has declined to prosecute. Even if she did, she would be torn apart in court, so much that even winning might not be worth it to her (although it may help potential future victims).

Sometimes, though, where there’s smoke, there really is fire"

"Girls Gone Wild" Boss Busted

More Trouble For "Girls Gone Wild" Gang

"Girls Gone Wild" Boss Accused Of Rape

"Girls Gone Wild" Boss Sues Rape Accuser | The Smoking Gun (interesting countersuit to a rape accusation - $25,000,036. $36 is for room service)

[Bricker]

[QUOTE=Eonwe]
Well, I happen to find her story a much more likely story. If I had to guess what was more likely, that a rich pornographer who has a history of being accused of threatening women physically (and has had a restraining order on him and settled a case out of court) took advantage of a young, drunk woman, or that a young woman is lying about the story presented in the article, I’d tend to believe the woman over Mr. Francis (or whomever).

I could be wrong, but it does seem a more plausable story than his. And, I haven’t accused him of rape, but merely of being a scum and asshole. I agree that the situation is complicated and unclear, which, IMHO, enables Mr. Francis to take advantage of his position and power.
[/QUOTE]

I don’t have any problem whatsoever agreeing that he’s a scum and an asshole – his OWN words and actions make that case very nicely.

[you_with_the_face]

[QUOTE=Bricker]
Why do you automatically credit the girl’s version?
[/QUOTE]

Maybe they dug up some statistics on women with Polish surnames and found that they are raped by white guys at a rate greater than zero.

Sound silly to you? It shouldn’t.

[Guinastasia]

[QUOTE=Bricker]
If the girl’s story is believed in full, THEN Mr. Francis is a rapist.

He seems to be denying it.

Why do you automatically credit the girl’s version?
[/QUOTE]

Considering Francis’s reputation and character, she’s the more credible one here. I’m not saying it happened for certain, but it’s definitely not out of character as we’ve learned.

Yes, these women are putting themselves in a vulnerable position-BUT, that doesn’t mean that the people who take advantage of them aren’t assholes.

And apparently, some of these girls on the tapes ARE underage? How in the hell does he get away with that?

[Marley23]

[QUOTE=Darkhold]
The whole article is baffling and in a few spots it seems like the reporter does indeed have a huge axe to grind.
[/quote]

That’ll happen when you call a reporter a cunt and start throwing her around.

Plus what kind of a moron rapes a girl with a reporter riding around on a bus with him?

You’d have to be a moron to treat a reporter the way Francis did, so I wouldn’t consider her presence a deterrent.

[Darkhold]

[QUOTE=Marley23]
That’ll happen when you call a reporter a cunt and start throwing her around.

You’d have to be a moron to treat a reporter the way Francis did, so I wouldn’t consider her presence a deterrent.
[/QUOTE]
Why didn’t she call the cops and report him for assault? Hell according to the story there was a freaking cop right there she could have walked over and said “He just assaulted me get your ass over there and arrest him.”

From what I can tell about that incident he’s claiming made a drunken point where he pulled her arms behind her back. She’s saying he took her arms behind her back ‘hard’ and shoved her head down on the car. According to her maybe because she’s blond and not wearing a thong.

Hmmm…Alright.

@Eonwe

The thing is awfully bizarre. The things that some young women will do without having a compelling reason, or a sense of a safe environment, in order to satisfy some urge to be loved/noticed/popular (particularly after getting drunk, which is often done to help satisfy those same needs) is pretty bizarre, but true.

The fact that there are throngs of men who are willing to take advantage of those same women, fully knowing that those women are making choices that are not in their own best interests, knowing that those women are drunk, and knowing that they can probably count on the women not mentioning any questionable acts to anyone because of their guilt/mixed feelings, is pretty bizarre. But true. And sick.

So every woman that’s done something questionable not in her best interest without a ‘compelling’ reason has what? Been raped? Violated? What are you saying here? Everyone on this earth has done dumb things without a good reason the majority of us shrug our shoulders and try to learn a lesson. But of course that’s not the debate here. I’m asking how could she NOT KNOW she was being filmed? How could she NOT KNOW what the waiver was for? For christ’s sake she put on a damn dildo show for him and his camera man and passively let him usher his cameraman out of the room after making leering comments about taking her virginity. Maybe she said no at that point. I don’t know. She could have been raped fully with both parties being aware it was nothing but rape but since she seems to have a hazy memory and admits she did some things drunk that she wouldn’t do sober I just find it worth comment that she clearly remembers saying ‘no, no, no’.

Assholes like Francis, who deliberately and maliciously push the boundaries of consent and who intentionally prey upon those who are too weak-willed to realize what sort of mess they’re getting into, are the exact people for whom consent and date-rape laws were written for.

Well color me corrected. I thought date rape laws were for people that raped their girlfriends and used the ‘well she said no but she wanted it’ or drugged them. Not every guy that got a girl drunk and had sex. (For the record I have actually never gotten a girl drunk and had sex I detest alcohol I just don’t think every drunken regret-it-in-the-morning hookup is rape) The story sounds to me she realized later how out of control she was and then got with a reporter that was more then happy to ask leading questions and draw her own conclusions about what ‘really’ happened.

He’s got a situation where enough i’s are dotted and t’s crossed that he can get away with what in many situations would be called rape.

He’s lucky that enough women don’t seem aware that signing release forms to allow oneself to be filmed doing sexual acts, and getting horribly drunk, and being filmed by a guy with wealth and power, puts one in a very dangerous situation. You are pretty much at the mercy of that individual. That’s a lot of trust to put into someone who is obviously a jerk who holds women in very low regard.

Yes that’s indeed a shame. It’s also a shame how many girlfriends believe boyfriends that say “I’ll love you forever” and it’s a shame all the people that choose to lose their virginity under the influence of drugs and alcohol. It’s a shame so many people make stupid stupid choices. But that doesn’t make everyone instantly a victim or instantly a predator.

[Marley23]

[QUOTE=Darkhold]
Why didn’t she call the cops and report him for assault? Hell according to the story there was a freaking cop right there she could have walked over and said “He just assaulted me get your ass over there and arrest him.”
[/quote]

It’s right in the story that she declined to press charges, even after the cop decided Francis’s friends were lying about it being a lovers’ quarrel. Maybe she decided it wasn’t worth the trouble, personally and professionally.

[Asimovian]

[QUOTE=Marley23]
It’s right in the story that she declined to press charges, even after the cop decided Francis’s friends were lying about it being a lovers’ quarrel. Maybe she decided it wasn’t worth the trouble, personally and professionally.
[/QUOTE]
That bewildered me when I read it. I don’t understand why she declined. If she refused just to have an opportunity to get more of a story out of, then I think she’s contributing to his attitude and actions. Frankly, I feel like she lost quite a bit of credibility for not pressing charges.

[Marley23]

[QUOTE=Asimovian]
I don’t understand why she declined.
[/quote]

I’m not sure either. I suppose Francis could have sued her.

If she refused just to have an opportunity to get more of a story out of, then I think she’s contributing to his attitude and actions.

I don’t know if that’s true, but I’ll grant that it’s questionable personal (if not journalistic) ethics.

Frankly, I feel like she lost quite a bit of credibility for not pressing charges.

Why?

[Otto]

[QUOTE=Asimovian]
Frankly, I feel like she lost quite a bit of credibility for not pressing charges.
[/QUOTE]

Balls. I have a friend who was raped and she declined to press charges. She didn’t want to spend a year or more of her life dealing with the legal system. Declining to press charges in a rape case, the sort of case which has historically been terribly emotionally damaging to the woman pressing charges, has no bearing on the alleged victim’s credibility.

[John_Mace]

[QUOTE=Bricker]
If the girl’s story is believed in full, THEN Mr. Francis is a rapist.

He seems to be denying it.

Why do you automatically credit the girl’s version?
[/QUOTE]

Why would she lie?