Bad Neighbors are here under Section 8. How can I get them kicked out?

In My Humble Opinion
1

A month or two ago, I posted about inconsiderate neighbors driving us crazy, soliciting advice on how to handle them. Since then I’ve been keeping records of police calls, and corresponding every police call with a HOA call. They’re still as awful as ever.

I knew then that they were renters (courtesy of the state Tax Assessor’s website). What I did not know until today is that they are there under HUD Section 8 Assistance for low-income families.

The social liberal in me feels a pang of guilt that I have been trying to bring a hammer down on low-income renters who likely need any assistance they can get. But there’s a larger, less noble, part of me that sees this as an added avenue to get them evicted and out of my neighborhood. It says I’m paying nearly $1800 per month in mortgage, treating the neighborhood like it’s worth $1800 per month, and they’re likely renting at no more than $400 per month, and subsequently treating the neighborhood like it’s worth no more than $400 per month.

Googling brings up a lot of information about what Section 8 renters can do if the landlord is not providing quality housing, and what landlords can do if the renters are destroying the house or not paying their rent. It doesn’t bring up so much information about what neighbors can do if they feel having the Section 8 renters in their neighborhood is at the detriment of property values and the peace and quiet and, well, society of the neighborhood.

I have found a description of Section 8 “Family Obligations” (warning: PDF), apparantly outlining 24 CFR 982.551 (which I can’t seem to find on public search engines, and I don’t have Lexis access) that, among other things, obligates them to not “b) Commit any serious or repeated violations of the lease. (IE: non-payment or late payment of rent, poor housekeeping, disturbing the peaceful enjoyment of neighbors etc.),” pretty much flying in the face of my repeated complaints, and also obligates them to faithfully and punctually represent all changes in residents within the unit. The house appears to have a revolving door, and the neighborhood rumor mill indicates that one person on the Section 8 Agreement lives elsewhere with her boyfriend, not in the home itself.

Other than continuing to build a case with 911 incident calls for noise violations and alerting the HOA when I do so, what more can I do to kick these bums out of my neighborhood?

2

Have you brought this up with the property owner?

3

Not yet. The only info I have on the owner is a PO Box. While a letter (especially certified) has greater accountability, it also has a certain lack of intimacy. I’d rather I and some neighbors (and the neighbor who told us the Bad Neighbors are there on the Federal dime called the police twice during a Memorial Day party yesterday, besting our effort of once) bring a good case to the HOA, and the HOA have a bit more authority to make the owner hurt.

4

If you want the tenants gone, and don’t care about pissing off the property owner, file a complaint in writing directly with the HUD/Section 8 people in your area, and follow up with that complaint to the point of annoyance. I used to work for a property management company that accepted Section 8, and that’s what we had to do to get some of our problem tenants evicted - take away their funding. Generally, landlords will ignore all kinds of crap from Section 8 tenants because they’re getting their money no matter what. One memorable family had no utility service (gas, water, or electricity), and the landlord wanted us to call them and see what the problem was to try to help them get re-connected so he could continue to get his money. :rolleyes:

I have really mixed feelings about Section 8. Some of the recipients are genuinely in need of housing assistance. Others are just assholes who abuse the welfare system.

5

Chances are that the HOA is not going to be able to do very much except levy fines against the owner for any specific rules violations but you should still make sure they know what is going on. In your place I’d contact the property owner with your documented list of incidents and problems, copying the HOA and HUD. I’d also get other neighbors to sign it or send their own so that everyone involved can see that it’s not just you.

I went through a similar situation that lasted more than a year before the tenants from hell finally moved to another property and we got back to a nice, normal neighborhood.

6

This is the text that I got when I searched the Code of Federal Regulations for 24CFR 982.551.
You don’t need Lexis Nexis to access the CFR, FYI.

7

How about giving them a large sum of money so that they no longer qualify as low-income? :wink:

8

Screw that. Just because they are low income doesn’t mean that they can be irresponsible without repercussions. Consider this; A far more responsible family may be on the waiting list for that very same section 8 housing.

9

The guilt has completely gone after I suffered a bout of insomnia last night thanks to them. I went to bed at 11:30, and they were loitering outside, talking loudly enough that it distracted me in my bedroom, but quietly enough that they wouldn’t be outside the 50’ radius of the noise ordinance. Eventually, I got to bed at 2am or so.

It was pretty well gone yesterday evening, after I recalled the matron of this dysfunctional family bitching to new (unassisted) renters who moved in next door because the new people had the audacity to want to park right in front of their unit, which is also partially right in front of the Bad Neighbors’ unit*. Bad Neighbor Matron effectively forced the new renters to displace us directly in front of our unit, and make our first introduction to the new renters (very nice people) a dispute.
*These are townhouses that each one is guaranteed two spaces in front of their block of townhouses, but each house is itself only about 1.75 parking spaces wide (they’re small townhouses and fairly generous width parking). Bad Neighbors only have about one and a half parking spaces in front of theirs, and nice next door renters have about one and a half more. We have nearly two full directly in front of ours.

10

You might want to check and see if your locale has a nuisance property law. At one of our Neighborhood Association (not an HOA) meetings our police department liaison explained that, in Milwaukee, if a property has 3 complaints for nuisance violations within a 30 day period it will be labeled a nuisance property. This means that any further calls that result in the police or fire department responding to that property will be billed to the property owner. I think it was a few hundred dollars per incident. That would probably get the owners attention.

(I am pretty sure that the 3 complaints had to include a response from the department. You couldn’t just make up complaints. Well, I guess you could but I think the violation had to be still going on when they arrived. Hmmm… I think I should check out how this works again. Not that I need it. When my neighbors are too loud I go over and talk with them and the problem is usually solved.)

11

HUD is most likely just going to tell you to contact the Housing Authority. If you stlil want to call, ask the receptionist to look up the project manager in charge of that particular project (the apartment should have a name). I’d give as little information as possible because the receptionist’s incentive is to transfer you to the housing authority…you can leave the PM a message. I don’t know if they will call back but they might at least look into it. Do not, under any circumstance, ask to speak with the lawyers or you will automatically be transferred to the local Housing Authority. HUD attorneys only structure the financial payouts for all these programs-they don’t work on complaints.

I haven’t read the original thread but if they’re being disruptive they’re in violation of the HUD lease-but that’s between the landlord and the tenant. It is impossible for you to enforce it.

12

Oh, and ps, you can get whatever you want on HUDCLIPS

HUD online form and regs website

13

During a period of time when I was in school (single parent, three kids, yadah, yadah, yadah) we recieved housing assistance through the HUD/Section 8 Housing Assistance program. It was for our family, simply put, a life saver. If not for Section 8, we would have been homeless. There were a lot of hoops to jump through to get Section 8, a year long waiting list, and lots of hoops to jump through to keep Section 8 housing. It always amazed me that there were people who were receiving Section 8 assistance who acted like they just didn’t care. (Several of our neighbors had been Section 8 recipients.)

I can completely understand your frustration at having neighbors who just don’t care about themselves, or others, however, I must say that I doubt that anything will come of notifying HUD/Section 8. One year, during my yearly review at Section 8, I talked with my caseworker about our neighbors, who I knew for a fact were receiving Section 8. At the time, HUD had a clause that illegal drug use on the property was cause for a family to be eliminated from the Section 8 property, and I expressed my frustration that my neighbors would sit on the front porch and smoke pot, with the wind blowing the smoke into my livingroom if the windows were open. (No AC, so the windows had to be opened, or the house was suffocating.) The caseworker basically shrugged her shoulders and said that Section 8 couldn’t do anything about it–even though the police had been called to the house several times (domestic violence, the pot, etc.).

I wish I had an answer, but at this point, I wouldn’t put all my faith on HUD doing a damn thing.

14

HUD still has drug clauses in the Section 8 leases. The model ones are online and they’re used by all s8 landlords.

15

I think you really need to get the landlord involved in this. It might not have any effect (he doesn’t live there, and might not care who he’s renting to), but he might also be concerned about his property, go in to check on it, find damage and kick them out himself. He needs to know that his business is making trouble for neighbours, at any rate.

16

Talk to the landlord and keep calling the cops when something goes down. The landlord has an interest in insuring that the property is maintained and that nothing is getting damaged. If he sees that violations are occurring, he may kick them out.

17

Once they find out WHO is complaining, you may well be on the receiving end of some serious harassment! also, be aware that drug use is NOT a reason to evict somebody (in many states, drug addiction is a disability).
Tread carefully!

18

:eek: Are you serious? I can’t believe it. Are you serious?

19

Okay, I’ve been wondering for quite some time: What are Sections 1 through 7?

20

As far as I know, *abstinence with an addiction history * is a disability and protected; using illegal drugs is merely illegal.