In writing up this response regarding some recent warnings for bringing off-site drama onto the boards, I was going through some of the sticky aspects of trying to keep said drama off without stifling too much innocent free expression and realized that I’d really like to hear the membership’s thoughts on the issue.
So here’s the question: if a subgroup of posters gathers off-site, how strictly should we enforce our rule that any arguments or drama that result should be kept off the boards?
Important: I’d like to avoid discussion any specific sites and/or posters as much as possible. While the snark blogs are a current source of drama, they weren’t the first and certainly won’t be the last. And the problem really isn’t site specific.
To that end, here’s a hypothetical. A group of posters creates a blog which contains a list of insults or negative statements, e.g. “#267: I hope someone kills your mom and makes you watch”. These same posters reference these on the boards, e.g. “when I think of poster X, the number 267 springs to mind for some reason ;)” Should we ignore it? Do we warn people for any use of the number 267? What happens if it becomes a popular joke and widely used all over the boards?
This is hopefully just a starting point for the discussion. I’m off for a bit, but will check back in shortly.
Well, I’m pretty open to a heavy hand to restrain off board “drama” but I’m not sure all you mods are on the same page. In that thread where Fear Itself gets a benefit of the doubt non-warning [post=9632647]fluiddruid notes[/post]:
That doesn’t seem like a concern for drama.
If some off-site catch phrase or nickname evokes some specific off-site rumor or argument then feel free to come down hard. Why would “fap fap fap” be any worse than “I’ll be in ma bunk” that is in common use around here?
Everybody who participates in this forum does so of his/her own free will, and ought to know better than to get all twisted up over some comment made on the intarwebs by someone they’ll never meet.
Quit playing nannies as if this is some kind of Internet baby pool, and leave the whiners to fend for themselves.
If the off-board board is linked to from the links page (like Opal’s, IIRC), I see no reason why we’d want mention of, or access to, its content restricted.
I agree that it’s a challenge. While the current issue seems to be relegated to one place, it’s certainly not the only time/issue/place. There’s been any number of instances of outside crap being brought on here (some notable RL situations come to mind). I guess for me, when it’s a very clear almost linear type of thing, like in your example, (where the number 267 is not something like a common object), I’d go w/the warning sort of thing, especially if there’s evidence of malice (like simulpostings). When the level of viotrol seems oddly higher than it should be - I think again, it’s clear there’s something else going on.
The childish altering of names can be especially trying, as we’ve seen of late. But I’d rather not have a rule saying we must only refer to folks by their screen name 'cause (like I posted in that thread), one of my keyboards is especially cranky (wireless is one problem), and my poor tired fingers get strained w/some of the longer screen names (that’s why I have the short, simple, easy to spell/remember screen name I do).
While this particular issue may seem clear, there’s been any number of other things that have happened that got pretty nasty - once a RL couple began sparing over stuff that happened w/in their own house, but then came here and posted (blogs) threads about it, getting all sorts of other folks taking up sides and getting heated. It was nasty and got shut down, thankfully.
If it’s outside the pit, it’s a personal insult, whether the person being insulted is likely to understand it or not, and the poster should be warned.
If it’s in the pit, it’s still a personal insult, and while I think it’s incredibly cheap and lame to insult someone in a way that they can’t even defend themselves, I guess it wouldn’t be the end of the world.
The main issue I see with trying to enforce something like this is that the mods would be obligated to know or verify that that’s what 267 referred to, which might not be possible in all cases.
So - we’re saying that phrases and numbers that have meanings to some people because they associate somewhere other than this board but sail over the rest of our heads should be policed? Why bother? If we don’t even register what they’re talking about then what need for moderating is there?
Agreed. Seems like you’re then asking our moderators to go to and read every tangentially Doper related message board out there so they know what all the latest drama is so they could spot it here. That seems rather dumb.
I think the rubric should be the same as any other interaction: is the poster being a jerk? The same exact words can be used to be a jerk and to not be a jerk, and the grey area is part of what I imagine is hardest about being a mod, but the backstory of those words shouldn’t really be relevant, IMHO.
I can see warning to keep off board drama off board for things like preventing board wars or invasions, 'cause that’s being a jerk. But for a reference to an off board incident? Meh. Seems draconian and infantilizing.
People who get it will get it. People who don’t get it won’t be lost. If another board decides to call Giraffe “Captain Tongue” and then someone over here calls him “Captain Tongue” it’s not some big conspiracy. He gets the name “Captain Tongue” because it’s funny on “the other board” and since the “other board” is all about this board, it’s funny here too.
The only reason it becomes an issue is when people get all “ooh! ooh! You used a name from the OTHER BOARD! OOH!!” and then everyone posts “What’s the other board?!” If no one says anything, no one has a clue and nobody cares.
My, what a useful contribution to the thread.
I think what you guys are missing from Giraffe’s hypothetical is that it seems to be an attempt to get an insult across that would never be directly allowed. If someone actually posted here “I hope someone kills your mom and makes you watch” they’d probably get a warning for going too far into vile territory. I would figure anyone who actually reported the “267” post would likely be able to easily provide a link for a moderator to understand it’s significance.
Seriously, not a big deal. I expect that adults should be able to choose to stay out of things that bother them without needing a nanny watch out for them.
I would be willing to bet a kidney that they not only read that particular forum, but they participate in it as well.
Yes, because participating in one online forum is the height of coolness, but participating in more than one makes you a total fucking loser.
Considering anybody who wants to find out where that other site is easily can, it’s a bit stupid to pretend that not allowing its name to be mentioned here accomplishes anything at all.
Unless you mods have absolutely NO life, therefore ensuring that you have time to read *every * post of *every * related/semi-related board, then you really can’t. I mean, if the mods didn’t * obviously read that other board, how would they even know what was a common insulting nick-name over there? And how can you know that someone who unwittingly uses one of those nick-names is using it because of off-board drama?
*(Unless someone reported the post, which proves they read the other boards and have thin-enough skin to be bothered by it.)
I say let it go, unless someone is obviously trying to start a board-war, and let them sort it out for themselves. If someone is trying to start a board-war, I think it would be obvious, and could be dealt with as a rules-violation (don’t be a jerk stylee.)
You may also want to keep in mind that not all of us will recognize it as drama brought in from off-board. I don’t read the snark thing, and therefore don’t realize that such-and-such is a reference to it.
If it becomes widely known, then (IMO) it crosses the line into insults. If it isn’t widely known, and the reference passes over the heads of the average Doper, then paying any attention to it is giving the other message board trolls more power than they deserve.
Maybe I don’t see the problem as clearly as you do, since I don’t get the references. If they are posting links to elsewhere to stir up message board wars, fine, that’s being a jerk. If they are trying to get around the rule against insults in GD, same same.
Attacking another Doper that you know personally over something that happened IRL is, I think, another matter. That (again, IMO) trespasses against the Prime Directive because it violates the semi-joking nature of flaming. People, myself included, are free to say things n the Pit that would be wildly inappropriate in real life. Because as long as it isn’t personal, it is just a message board. But if I flamed fisha or Captain Lance Murdoch for something said at a Dopefest (I’m not - both were very pleasant), that is another matter.
