I pit thee, SDMB Cafe Society Troglodytes

The BBQ Pit
1

What for?

Because all too often it’s nothing more than an asinine group bitch-fest about how someone doesn’t like some treasured, honored piece of culture. There are way too many threads such as “least deserving best picture” or “[insert treasured masterpiece here] is overrated” or “modern [literature, art, music, or architecture] is a failure.”

I metaphorically cast a shockingly rude gesture in your general direction, Cafe Society’s pretentious “this [insert great masterpiece] is actually worthless Emperor’s clothes yes I do get it it’s about the sled and it blows gooey chunklets if you like it clearly you’re not as smrt as I are modern architecture is obviously a failure”-type people.

Basically, an appallingly large number of the threads in that nigh-worthless forum are about bashing something other people regard highly, and then pompously patting oneself on the back for it.

The only thing Cafe Society proves is that there is no masterpiece so great that there isn’t some sweaty-palmed troglodyte who is proud of themselves for disliking said masterpiece and is willing to spooge idiocy about being proud of disliking it all over the internet.

Am I describing you? Do you think Frank Lloyd Wright was an idiot? Do you find Charles Dickens overrated? Are you appalled that anyone pays attention to Citizen Kane? Does it fill you with fury that Schoenberg’s music is performed and recorded? Then may your feeble-minded attempts to find enjoyment in art, movies, literature, music, poetry, or architecture fail miserably forevermore as you wallow in your cynical, lonely, artistically unfulfilled, cretinous life.

I’ve had it with the lot of you. [Dismissive grunt]

As I metaphorically depart from Cafe Society, letting the door hit me on the ass on the way out, I offer one tiny bit of wisdom to ponder:

“There is no disputing taste.” [I like this better in Latin, but I wouldn’t want to be called pretentious.]

[Exit, stage left. Muttering is heard in the background: “Red is overrated! Blue is better! What are you talking about, idiot? Green is the worst!”

2

So in your perfect world, everything is awesome, and everyone likes everything?

How boring.

3

I have some sympathy with the OP. If someone says “I don’t like something because I find it too slow/fast, too many/few explosions, the star is ugly/handsome for my taste” then fine. You’re free to like or dislike things as you please. If you point out something factually correct, like that some band’s songs always use the same three chords, no problemo as far as I’m concerned.

But categorical statements about inherently value loaded issues of artistic judgment are just boorish, dull and add nothing but noise to the boards as far as I’m concerned. And the use of the post facto opinion gambit is beyond old and tedious*

If it’s your opinion, phrase it as such. If its an attempt at categorical factual statement, think about whether it’s defensible and be prepared to defend it if necessary.

[You know, the one where you make categorical statements as fiercely and firmly as possible, which you are more than happy to have taken as factual until defending them gets too hard, then you whine “Waaaah, it was only my opeeenioooon”)

4

I find it reduces the blood pressure considerably if you mentally insert “In my opinion” in front of just about any statement regarding aesthetic taste or artistic merit.

I mean, the OP is whining about threads like this one, where it’s pretty clear that everyone is offering an opinion. The very question of “deserving” in cases like this is an inherently subjective one, and anyone who doesn’t realize that is a moron.

At the same time, even subjective opinions can be offered as categorical statements amenable to support with evidence or reasoned argument. If i say, for example: “Crash is an awful movie. Unconvincing acting performances, stilted and overly-didactic dialogue, and all the subtlety of a sledgehammer on crack,” that is clearly an opinion, but one that i believe is justified by my own analysis of particular aspects of the film. It’s also one that i could, if i felt like sitting through the movie again, support with specific examples that help to demonstrate the point i’m trying to make.

It might suit the OP’s idiotic righteous indignation to suggest that people who don’t like the cultural sacred cows must have some ulterior motives, but the fact is that not everyone likes the same thing, and there are perfectly reasonable and valid differences of opinion on these issues.

Take my opinion of Crash. I watched the movie with great anticipation, and fully expected to be blown away. I was living in a majority-black city, i’m interested in issues of racial injustice in the United States, and i’m smack-bang in the middle of the educated, white, left/liberal audience that the makers of the movie were clearly aiming to attract. Not only was i willing to like the film; i would have been willing to cut it some slack just for dealing with such an important issue.

But i fucking hated it. I thought it was ponderous and awful and a complete missed opportunity. It wasn’t half the film that Brokeback Mountain was.

I didn’t adopt this opinion in order to be edgy or cool or radical. And i take no particular pleasure in it. But it’s what i think. And if someone asks, it’s what i’l tell them, even if they’re going to act like a douchebag and accuse me of pretension.

5

This post was too slow/fast and it had too many/few explosions.

6

Doesn’t sound to me like you are who the OP is talking about. There are plenty of examples of people who (a) aren’t asked but are very keen to tell, and who (b) make a particular point of emphasising how clever they are to be able to see that the emperor (allegedly) has no clothes.

7

Much like a broken pencil, you’re missing the point. :wink:

There is a vast difference between seeing puppy dogs and unicorns everywhere you look, and disliking pretentious folks who get off on dissing art just for the sake of dissing art. I long ago got fed up with [some show] appreciation threads being invaded with “I think it’s dumb and I don’t watch it, and anyone who watches it is an idiot” posts. They add nothing, and subtract much.

I still reserve the right to threadshit in Titanic appreciation threads, of course.

8

I disagree with the Op. Opinions to vary greatly. I love Gump, many on the board think it is pop-culture garbage or merely entertaining. I love *Citizen Kane *but I do find it slow to watch now as I have seen it a dozen times and it is not as re-watchable as *Casablanca *or (heaven forbid) Forrest Gump.

I find *300 *and *The Dark Knight Return *painfully bad movies without the joy of camp and yet I can sit back and enjoy the hated film *Revenge of the Nerds *or the not well loved *Hancock *from this year.

So despite disagreeing with other posters on many movies I enjoy the interaction. I find asking them why they dislike or like a movie, I can get a good idea as to whether I might enjoy the movie.

Just because I think *The Godfather *and *Godfather II *are the greatest movies ever made does not mean I expect everyone to agree. It is nice that apparently I am in a comfortable large group on these two movies but I don’t think less of someone that dislikes the violence or one I hear often from young people and posters that it is too slow and they’ve seen it all before. I actually understand and I will explain that The Godfather came first but if they are seeing it after *Pulp Fiction *and Goodfellas and others I understand their opinion.

So yes I disagree with the Op.

9

Awww. What’s the matter, Knorf? Somebody diss your favorite episode of Scooby-Doo?

Arguments about tastes are violent because they are so subjective. That’s where the fun is.

10

The thought the thick-skulled protector of all things Scooby was a different poster?

11

Oh, hell yes!

IMO, the death sentence should be outlawed, and our worst criminals should be sentenced to read Bleak House over and over until they stab themselves in the eye to get away from it… shouldn’t take more than 50 or 60 pages.

12

Hey, I haaaaaaaaaaaaate Dickens. But I *see *why he’s considered one of the greats. “Not to my taste” does not equal “bad”.

Unless of course we’re talking Thomas Kinkaide. I’ll cut you if you remotely seem to suggest that he has anything even kinda like a redeeming quality.

13

And she’ll do it, too.

14

Piffle. Nice straw man.

IN all seriousness, of course not.

What I’m pitting is the relentless parade of [art,movie,literature,music,etc.]-bashing that Cafe Society has become. Some people are awfully damn proud of themselves for disliking well-regarded stuff. It gets odious.

People with mature, reasonable criticism; them I’m not bashing.

“Scooby Do.” Where in the weasel-fornicating-hells did that come from? Kindly go have marital relations with something sharp, rusted, and filthy, Silenus. You’re of no use here.

15

Well, what do you expect from a bunch of people who think that Oreos are the best thing, evar?

16

Is it really that bad? It almost seems like the opposite to me. If the thread is all pro or all con from the title about a subject then the thread tends to that direction and you risk being seen as a jerk for disagreeing. In a 300 thread I had a few posters apparently angry at me for having the nerve to not agree with the general perception in the thread and Og Forbid using the phrase “comic book movies”.

Do you have specific examples where the non-mature, non-reasonable criticism outweighs the mature & reasonable criticism? The “least deserving best picture” did not appeal to me but I just seemed like opinions and mostly reasonable even where I disagree. (I think Forrest Gump was a great and touching movie, that was up against one of the best fields of movies since 1939)

The Scooby Doo things is a recent and odd kerfuffle that involved a resurrected Zombie thread and a follow-up amused pitting.

17

See? This is proof that we don’t need profanity to be able to express ourselves and our opinions of other Posters. Well-crafted, to the point, visual and emphatic. :smiley:

18

I don’t like pretentious motherfuckers who publicly disparage highly-regarded works of art in hopes of being viewed as edgy or unique. Then, too, I don’t like pretentious motherfuckers who publicly heap praise upon highly-regarded works of art in hopes of being viewed as erudite or cultured.

Both of these things, however, have little to nothing to do with the opinions in question. Rather, they stem from the fact that, on the whole, I don’t like pretentious motherfuckers. (Neither am I especially fond of public expressions of opinion with ulterior motive of any sort, but the concept of “culture” has me beat by a couple millennia on that one, so I try to let it slide.)

Art is subjective. An opinion can be well-informed, soundly-reasoned, consistent with one’s other opinions, or possess any number of other quantifiable values, but when the topic of discussion is ultimately subjective and innately inquantifiable – such as individual perception of a piece of artwork – none of those things can confer superiority to one opinion over another.

And even if they could, that still wouldn’t mean that anyone who held an opposing viewpoint was a “troglodyte”. If you want to condemn pretentious behavior, I’ll be right there with you, but you’re don’t do your point any favors by displaying that same behavior (albeit from a different viewpoint) yourself.

19

And don’t get me started on those pretentious cookie-pushers who argue over hand-mixed vs mixer-mixed cookie dough.

Regardez moi.

20

Except that your example (least deserving Oscars) is asking about what movies aren’t well-regarded. It seems pretty certain that not really anyone liked Crash, for instance. At the very least, it’s asking which Best Picture movies are the least well-liked. Any ranking of opinions has to have a lower tier, by definition.