"Biblical" Marrages? are people really okay with this?

Great Debates
1

I have a particular friend who is married with two young children. Hes been married for nine years. He describes his marraige as a “biblical” one. He converted to christianity a few years back, seems pretty happy with it and respectful of others beliefs.

Him and his wife agreed on having “traditional” gender roles. This means he works and she stays home with the kids. He does zero cleaning, only cooking he does is bbq, and blows off his wife when we are around.

I discussed his marraige with a mutual friend of mine, who adamantly defended my “biblical” friend on every point. He said our friend and his wife had agreed on this arrangement from the get go, and they’ve.been married for nine years, so everything must be great, right? I’m not so certain.

Thing is, whenever we visit, his wife always seems exasperated, irritated at doing a thousand things while her husband is showing us some toy he bought. She is EXTREMELY grateful when we help her, and very apologetic about any messes, dinner being late, etc.

One day friend invited fiancee and I, other friend and his wife over for dinner. We offered to pick up stuff since apparently biblical friends wife didnt know she was cooking for eight till the last moment. We come over, help put groceries away, help cook, my fiancee entertains friend’s kids and gets them to put their toys away. The whole time biblical friend is in the garage painting models. When dinner is ready, he goes in, fills a bowl with literally half the spaghetti we made, and plopped on the couch while his wife feeds their kids. He then shows us a funny (but graphically violent) show that his wife doesn’t want their kids watching. She objects, but he just ignores her, creating this awkward tension. After the show, is over he puts on more age apprpriate stuff. Then he decides to go to the toy store to get some collector toy while its on clearance before the store closes. His wife finally goes to get food but it turns out her her husband had barely left any for her. Fiancee and I offered to help clean up so she could put her kids to bed but she said its ok, thank you for offereing.

I felt like the evening was a big red flag. I discussed it with my other friend who was there but he wrote off the incident, saying, “well, we dont know what she says to him when we’re not around”. I’m kind of :dubious: about that. Is this normal?! Biblical friend is a fun guy to be around, but it sounds like hes really stretching the rationalization to be lazy and publically dismiss his wife by suggesting, “shes okay with it”

2

Seems he’s using ‘Biblical roles’ as cover for being an out-and-out jerk.

3

“Jerk” is the mildest thing I can think of calling him. Taking half the spaghetti for himself is hardly biblical.

4

But hardly non-traditional. I understand that in a lot of farming households, then men ate first, as they had spent the day out in the fields working up a huge appetite. The womens folk had it easy, spending the day indoors doing the easy chores, such as laundry, child-rearing, baking, cleaning, sewing, etc., so if they didn’t get to eat, no biggy.

Is Biblical guy a farmer?

5

‘Biblical’ friend sounds like an asshole. Even if he tells the wittiest jokes in the world, why would you want to hang around with someone who treats his wife like shit?

That tells me a lot more about a person than how fun he is to hang around with.

6

He’ll be happy to discover that divorce is also straight out of the Bible: the court takes a sword like Solomon and cuts all his assets in two.

7

The dude is an exploitative asshole, which is hardly Christian. Drop him like a live grenade and hope the police don’t question you when his wife snaps and goes after him with a Garden Weasel.

8

Biblical my ass.

9

Your friend doesn’t sound “biblical” to me. Are you assuming that your friend is behaving like others that claim to be in a “bibical marriage” and wanting other’s opinions about biblical marriages in general, or are you inquiring if your friend is following the principles of a principled biblical marriage?

I would say that people in true biblical may have traditional gender roles, where the husband works and the wife stays at home with the kids. But a husband in a biblical marriage should be respecting his wife, assisting with the kids in the evening, respectful of guests, etc. None of which your friend exemplified in your OP.

10

This is not a “Biblical” marriage. This guy is a jerk.

In the Bible, a husband is supposed to treat his wife thusly: “honoring her as the weaker vessel.” He is supposed to be respectful of her, and take care of her, since as a weaker vessel, she can’t be expected to take care of herself.

Getting “taken care of” is supposed to be ample reward for being a “submissive” wife. That’s some crappy reward, in my opinion, but to each his own.

But in no way, does “Biblical marriage” mean “wife is slave to jag-off husband.”

11

I go with this.

The whole situation reminds me of a similar pickle I found myself in, albeit more easily resolved (at least on my end). I was trying to reconnect with an old friend and he invited me to play poker at his friend’s house. As it turned out this friend of his was a brother of a guy I’d gone to college with, so it all seemed to wrap up in a nice package.

Then I discovered what a douche this guy was. First there was the typical guy-banter, you know the usual discussions of big tits and sexual conquests … whatever, it’s what guys do. But then he was going on and on about all the chicks he’s cheated on his wife with, in the most unflattering terms. Basically, it was like listening to Andrew Dice Clay, but less refined.

Then when his wife came downstairs to see if anybody wanted anything, he thought it would be funny to call her a cunt to her face in front of us.

I excused myself mid-hand and left. I told my friend that I’d love to hang out some more, but not at this asshole’s house. I remember telling the douche-bag, as I left, “good luck when your wife stabs you in your sleep.”

Who needs shit like that?

12

You’ve GOT to be kidding. Ever do laundry without machines? Or any of the other “easy” chores you so callously dismiss? Even with machines, running a farm household – with kids underfoot – ain’t a stroll in the park.

13

I think you nailed it with the first sentence.

14

There’s a whole patriarchal movement in conservative Protestant circles, with words like Biblical marriage, wifely submission, quiverfull, complementarian, and so on being thrown around a lot. If you want to see some of the material, try googling Vision Forum, Douglas Phillips, No Greater Joy or Debi Pearl, Douglas Wilson, or the terms above. I can’t remember others just now. Oh, Nancy Campbell is another one. Above Rubies, I think her thing is called.

In theory, the husband is supposed to love and serve his wife as Jesus Christ loved the church–that is, he’s supposed to be acting as a really good husband in order to deserve her submission to him. In practice, AFAICT the whole system often works to turn even the nicest man into a monster of selfishness. It’s horribly easy to turn into an abuser under this philosophy.

The trouble is that if the system goes off the rails–as it clearly has here–the wife has little recourse. Everyone will tell her that the problem is that she’s not submissive enough, and if she just ‘dies to self’ and stops being so selfish and demanding, then her husband will respond by improving himself. This, of course, rarely works.

But in order for this particular marriage to improve, the wife will have to realize that the system is fatally flawed, and she’ll have to take steps to get her family out. The husband has little incentive to change, after all. And if she is unlucky and he doesn’t mend his ways, she’ll end up a single mom supporting a bunch of kids, and she probably doesn’t have any skills–if she’s really hardcore, then she completely eschewed higher education in favor of homemaking skills.

15

Well, my relationship with my future wife is so different I didn’t know for certain if it was the contrast that made it so concerning to me. plus, my other friend and his wife were so ambivalent, it made me wonder if I was making something of nothing.

another red flag: many months ago, I asked him for advice (in hindsight, a questionable decision) about planning my wedding. My fiancee was unhappy because I was dumping most of the planning on her. I was willing to do more, but simply lacked the vision and planning to manage to make a wedding with so many people on a tight budget. So we were both frustrated. I asked friend how much he contributed. How much? Nothing :eek:, his wife did EVERYTHING. I felt like less of a deadbeat in comparison. His advice was for me to simply put my foot down and refuse to do anything I either didnt want or didn’t know how to do. His advice was very unhelpful and said volumes about his attitude.

16

Jerkishness disguised as ‘biblical’. aside, who the hell invites people over then spends his time painting models in the garage? Or eats on the couch while everyone else in at the table? Or leaves and goes to the mall while his guests are there?

This guy appears to have the social skills of a bear!

And you call this person a friend?

17

Exactly, though I was pretty sure that at least one person wouldn’t get it.

18

Good for you. I probably would have sheepishly stayed, or politely excused myself.

19

I lived exactly like this for the first year after my daughter was born. It wasn’t an agreement, just that my husband was a jerk. It was awful. Babies are a full time job in and of themselves, add to that all the cleaning, cooking, dishes, laundry and such and I was exhausted. I was also very very lonely because I was by myself at home all day.

When I got my own apartment and a full time job and had custody of the baby full time it was less work, I guess because I wasn’t trying to cater to all my husband’s domestic needs.

On the other hand I knew someone who delighted in keeping her home and raising the children mostly by herself while her husband worked. She even got up at butt-crack of dawn o-clock in the morning to cook him breakfast and make his lunch, so to each her own.

Can someone befriend the wife and find out how she’s doing? She may love her role, or she may just not be able to see her way out of it. It’s hard to make that change when you’ve been isolated in the house, your marketable skills stagnating, and perhaps no access to the family finances.

20

This is the concern I have. His wife only worked one retail job before she met him, married at 18. The only things she does are take care of her kids and do church activities. She doesnt seem to have friends.

And youre right, the more I think about it, the more selfish he seems…its weird my other friend and wife are so passive about it. I guess they dont want to make waves- too all their credit, they’ve seen my relationship drama and reserved judgement on the matter.