Are pit bulls more dangerous than other dogs?

Factual Questions
1

For some reason I got involved in a Facebook battle about this. My position is that because they were specifically bred for fighting, they have an inherent tendency toward aggression. Now every pit bull I have ever met was the sweetest dog in the world, but as I understand it, even the sweet ones are still a risk of totally losing their shit and killing something. I found a citation that said 1/3 of all dog bite deaths are from pit bulls.

My friend argued that they have no inherent tendency toward aggression, and anything bad they do is just a result of poor socialization. Therefore, apartment bans on pit bulls and other pit bull-related restrictions are discriminatory. She gave me a lot of references to websites that were very obviously pro-pit bull so I hesitate to accept those statements as fact.

I really have no dog in this fight (har har har) so I am pretty open minded to whatever the facts are.

Actually, I’m asking two questions here:

  1. Are pit bulls more dangerous than other dogs?
  2. Is this most likely a genetic trait or a result of poor socialization?

Thanks,

Christy

2

Oh. dear. God.

What’s the over/under on how long this lasts in GQ?

Remember, no true pit bull is dangerous. :cool:

3

From the statistics I have seen, the answer to the first question is undoubtedly yes; for example:

not only that, they are also much more likely to kill adults than other breeds; in fact, they kill more adults than children - especially adults in their prime, which you’d expect to be able to fend off attacks:

(and if you’re a man, you want to be especially careful of pit bulls, although maybe this is because men are more likely to have such dogs, but I’d also think they would be able to fight them off better)

ETA: According to the same site the about cites came from (DogsBite.org), the history of pit bulls likely is the main reason for them being so overrepresented in fatality statistics; maybe not so much temperament, but they were bred to have especially strong jaws, meaning bites are worse:

4

Pit bulls were bred for animal-aggression and have a high prey drive (the same can be said for many other less commonly owned breeds). That, coupled by the fact that they are overwhelmingly owned by people who are not responsible dog-owners leads them to top the most common biters of all breeds. So it’s not a case of them “losing it” or “suddenly tuning on people”, it’s a combination of the typical traits, plus a boatload of irresponsible owners who do not properly train/socialise/manage/contain their dogs.

There are many breeds who fit the pit bull profile (relatively large and/or strong, animal aggressive/high prey drive) but they are not as commonly owned. Off the top of my head: Fila Brasiliero, Tosa Inu, Rottweiler, Tibetan Mastiff, Airedale, Belgian shepherds, Ovcharka, Anatolian shepherd, Karelian bear dogs. If any of these dogs were as commonly and casually owned at pit bulls, they’d be right up there.

5

They are not as dangerous as a lot of other dogs. Like those little teacup poodles for instance.

In every era there is a greatly feared dog, something fairly large, and popular. When I was a child it was German Sheperds. They’re ‘police dogs’ you know, they look like wolves too. Then it was Doberman’s, because they just look mean. Then it was Rottwiers, “My God! Look at the size of that thing!”. Now it’s Pits.

6

Anecdote: For several years, I worked closely with a rescue based in Flint, Mich - for most of that time I was vice president and so, very involved. I have no cite but while the ownership of pit bulls in the US as a whole might be about five percent, in poor ghetto-ish cities like Flint, I’d guess pit bull ownership is closer to 90 percent.

Anyway, the rescue I worked with did $10 vaccination clinics, usually right before dog licences were due and always in the “poor” parts of the city. You have to show valid rabies shot records to get a dog licensed, so it was both a benefit for the rescue and for people with limited funds to get their dogs vaccinated and licensed.

So, the vast majority of the dogs we saw were pit bulls. Often terrified (because they were not used to being off a chain/off their property) and often ill-behaved and untrained. On quite a few occasions a volunteer and a vet would have to go out to the owner’s car to administer the shot because the dog was too unruly to come into the PetCo/PetsMart that we held the vax clinics in.

We did five clinics that I helped with and they were well-attended; maybe about 2,000 or so dogs all told.

Of those, there were only two occasions of overt aggression towards humans. One was a husky mix who was utterly uncontrollable with utterly idiotic owners. That dog went for me and ripped a hole in the sleeve of my sweatshirt but thankfully missed my arm. The other was a poodle with painted toenails, cradled the whole time in the arms of its owner, that attempted to bite me, the vet, the vet tech and anyone else who came near it. I shit you not, the thing was a nasty little pirhana.

Not one of the pits or pit mixes were a problem although several tried to go after other dogs but we were pretty good about managing that sort of behaviour.

I’ve had Rottweilers in my life since 1985 and IMHO, like pit bulls, they are generally NOT dogs for people who want an “easy” dog or who don’t plan to put in quite a bit of time training, socialising and working with their family pet. While there are lots of exceptions (same with pit bulls), in general I would not recommend them to people who want an easy-going family dog. I’ve fostered quite a few pits and pit mixes and turned down a fair number of potential adopters because I didn’t think they were prepared to own a drivey-type dog.

7

Are they more dangerous than other dogs? Yes. Are they more dangerous than all other dogs? No. Are they more violent than all other dogs? No. Is there something hard-wired in pitbulls that makes them aggressive? Yes. Are they the only dogs that have it? No, not even close.

8

Say what you want, but the fatality statistics speak for themselves; a dog that represents 5% of the dog population but causes 2/3rds of fatal attacks isn’t “not as dangerous as other dogs”.

That said, do I think that pit bulls can’t make good pets and are inherently aggressive? No, but that doesn’t change the fact that they can inflict far more damage than a toy poodle, not just because they are bigger but because they were bred to have especially strong jaws and inflict maximum damage. A lot of those attacks may very well be provoked; any dog will bite if you tease it enough.

9

There are actually two different things one might consider “dangerous”:

1: Are pit bulls more likely to attack than other dogs?
2: In the event of a dog attack, is a pit bull more likely to cause serious injury than other dogs?

The answer to 2 is pretty clearly yes: Pit bulls are larger than average (though still not by far the largest dog), and their jaw muscles are extremely strong, so a pit bull is physically capable of doing a great deal of damage, if it so chooses. By comparison, the meanest, cussedest chihuahua in the world probably couldn’t kill a human, no matter how hard it tried (and many of them do). So in that sense, a pit bull is clearly more dangerous than a chihuahua.

Question 1 is more complicated, though. Who’s keeping the statistics, and how are they determining breed? Often, if a dog attacks a human, it’s declared to be a “pit bull” or “pit bull mix”, with the evidence for such breed being entirely composed of the fact of the attack itself: “Oh, it attacked a human, it must be a pit bull, since they’re the only ones that attack”. And even if that’s controlled for, is it because of the breed itself, or because of indirect factors? There are unfortunately a large number of people who want the dogs they own to be tough, mean, and nasty. Such people will tend to choose pit bulls (or other “scary” dogs like rottweilers or German shepherds) because of their reputation, and such people will also tend to train their dogs to be vicious. If the pit bulls they raise then become vicious, can that really be blamed on the breed?

10

Just to correct a common myth - pit bulls do not have super-duper jaw strength, although they tend to be muscular, strong dogs (so are many other breeds, such as Boston and Jack Russell terriers). Terriers as a group tend to be drivey dogs with a tendency to hold onto prey. Or toys :slight_smile: with great enthusiasm.
http://www.realpitbull.com/myths.html

And they’re not all that large - the UKC standard is between 30 and 60 lbs, smaller than most Labradors or Goldens.

It is true that pit/bully breed/pit mixes are often incorrectly identified as “pit bulls” when they might not be pit bulls at all, or a mix where the other breed/s in the mix predominate.
See how well you do with identifying the pit bull in this chart.

I totally concur that many people choose “scary” breeds in order to intimidate others or appear more manly or tough. :rolleyes: And these owners typically own the dogs that end up as bite statistics. As a long-time Rottweiler owner and someone who knows quite a few people that own “scary” breeds, from my own experience there are many, many responsible owners out there that make a big effort to present their dogs as good canine citizens.

11

From the CDC: (.pdf)

Note that this wiki link has “pit bull type” listed frequently, meaning that dogs who are mixes, or simply look like pit bulls regardless of breed are listed.

Note that the dog who savaged the French woman who got the world’s first face transplant was a Labrador retriever. Also,

Considering that animals in general, and pit bulls in particular, are at vastly greater danger from humans than the other way around, I am biased WRT the pearl-clutching that surrounds the whole pit bull thing. I’m in no way intending to be a breed apologist and fully acknowledge that some dogs need very responsible owners.

Dogs are carnivores and have teeth. A Lab-Golden mix almost killed a child. A black Lab kills a child. (Note that dog was chained up, not an uncommon scenario.) Dashunds and Pomeranians have killed people. So have malamutes, huskies and Weimereiners and Goldens and a Jack Russell terrier and Great Danes.

It’s like the gun debate. Just about any dog can kill a human. Whether or not they do usually hinges on the responsibility of the owner.

A woman named Karen Delise has written a couple of excellent books on the facts behind dog bite statistics.

12

The problem is cultural feedback. In the 80s, Dobermans were considered ferocious, vicious dogs. So that’s what the assholes who wanted an “attack” dog bought. In the 90s, it was Rottweilers. Now, it’s Pits.

Now, lets assume statistics indicate that Pit Bulls currently cause the most problems. But is that because of the dog, or because of the owner? The question is just theoretical until they start making breed specific legislation. Recently a town near me (Festus, MO, I think?) started confiscating every Pit Bull and euthanizing them. Should you give up your sweet puppy just because a few assholes have trained that breed to be vicious? Would you?

I personally have experience with several Dobermans and Pit Bulls, and because their owners weren’t ignorant, gangster, Mike Vick wannabes, those dogs were mild mannered lap dogs who would run and hide when strangers showed up at the door.

Long story short, don’t trust any statistic that doesn’t control for how the dog is raised and trained.

13

Then why did you bother to list 3 instances of non-pitbull fatal attacks? Has anyone claimed that no people have ever been killed by non-pitbulls?

I don’t really care whether a dog who has killed a person is all pitbull or pitbull mix. Is someone really going to claim that it’s the non-pitbull portion that drove the attack?

14

I don’t really care whether a dog who has killed a person is all pitbull or pitbull mix.

Just for balance. And to reinforce my point that dogs are carnivores,have big sharp teeth, and even if not-pit bulls, can maim or kill people.

Nobody has claimed that, as far as I can see. Did you miss the part I posted about totally NOT pit bulls killing or critically injuring people?
Again, and slowly: Dogs are carnivores. Dogs have teeth designed for ripping, shredding and killiing. Dogs are in part a product of their environment and in part a product of human selection.

If you are afraid of dogs and animals generally, that is OK and I respect that. But unless you are a dedicated vegan, animals have a lot more to fear from you than the other way around.

In fact [deer](The U.S. Department of Transportation estimates that white-tailed deer kill around 130 Americans each year simply by causing car accidents. In 1994, these predator deer had a banner year, causing 211 human deaths in car wrecks.)are responsible for more animal-related deaths than any other mammal; except for humans:

Eliminating a certain breed of dog will not result in fewer human deaths (although it will most certainly result in more slaughter of dogs by humans, but that is par for the course.) People killed by pit bulls in the USA annually: about two. TWO. Pit bulls killed by people in the USA annually; about 2.5 million. People killed by falling branches, their parents or guardians, falling coconuts, car accidents, lightning, swimming pools, five gallon buckets…in the hundreds every year, each. And of course deer are responsible for more deaths than dogs of all breeds, every year, by the hundreds.

So, if you are afraid of animals in general and pit bulls in particular, that is your prerogative. Just be informed and argue with facts, is all.

15

I have no idea about the op question but this comment is the key issue in interpretation of the statistics. In fact an article in 1982 found the greatest number of deaths were associated with German Shepherds. Bullterriers were 4th, also behind Huskies and St Bernards.

The most dangerous dogs are owned by people who treat them in a manner that encourages aggression, either by intent or by neglect. If a breed has an image as being a dangerous dog then those owners will acquire them and that breed will be over represented in the fatal dog attack stats.

The CDC’s take on somewhat more recent trends:

16

I had a pit bull for 13 years until he died last summer. He was a sweet, loving dog all his life. When he was young he was a very energetic, strong, driven, athletic dog.
I was told that he came to the fence and barked aggressively at my friends if they came to the house while I was out. He never showed aggression to a human in my presence. He was very friendly and sometimes jumped on people in an effort to play with them.
He was aggressive to other male dogs, less so after age 7. By age 10 he was calm around all dogs.
He was a handful, always pulling on the leash, and I didn’t have the time to give him the attention he wanted. When he died I sent his companion dog to live with a friends who have another dog already. That way she doesn’t have to be alone.
Based on my experience, I wouldn’t recommend a pit bull to a first time dog owner. They are too energetic, get bored easily, have a high prey drive and are ‘mouthy’ when young. Some of them have a very high aggression towards other dogs. They are very social animals, and will need a second dog for company when the people are gone.
If you look at the dog pounds in my area, more than half the dogs there are pit bulls and pit mixes.

17

I don’t know if this really helps, but I’ll say it anyway.

My friend was looking after a pit bull. I went to my friend’s house, and when she opened the door, the pit bull jumped on me in excitement. Now, the dog was not mean at all - she was greeting me in what she meant to be a friendly way. However, this was a big, strong dog, and had I been smaller and weaker I might’ve been knocked over. I’m wondering if similar things have happened with other people and pit bulls, and if this was perhaps misconstrued as the dog attacking?

18

I think your question could best be answered by finding answers to the following questions:

  1. How long does it take for selective breeding to spread a desired trait throughout an entire breed?
  2. How long has viciousness/aggressiveness been a desired trait in pitbulls? or How long have pitbulls been a separate breed?

If the answer to 1 is greater than the answer to 2, than aggressiveness could not be considered a standard trait of the breed.

Alternatively, rethink the question in terms of ‘is a pitbull with a responsible owner any more dangerous than another breed with a responsible owner?’. That’ll get you past the statistics (innately skewed by the unknown proportions of responsible to irresponsible owners), useless anecdotes, and emotional controversy.

19

I have had the misfortune of keeping a dog–an aggressive bitch–that is probably a pit bull mix. I didn’t know how to train her, and she bit people, and I got in trouble over it.

Bite and hold on? To other dogs, yes. This is infuriating, but she seems to have done it as a control move: She would grab the loose skin of the neck, avoiding the arteries. Still bad, but not necessarily lethal.
Bite and shake? Maybe to small non-dog animals.
Humans she has nipped at, broken skin, but not latched onto.

I think dogs that actually attack humans trying to do grievous bodily harm are quite rare.

And I suspect “breed personality” is a little exaggerated. As a generalization, smaller dogs tend to have more leeway from their owners; past that it’s probably more individual owners’ personalities and individual dogs’ personalities.

20

Pit bulls have become the victim of the current wave of dog-hating hysteria, especially in the media. Any dog that has a short snout gets labeled as a pit bull now.

How well did y’all do with identifying the pit bull in that chart that chiroptera linked? For the answers, see these charts:
Journalists Guide to Pit Bull Identification
Journalists Guide to Dog Breed Identification

When I go out walking in the neighborhood or parks or hiking in the hills, I always stop to pet every dog I meet, and that seems to include a fair number of pit bulls. I haven’t gotten eaten alive yet. Not even once. Pit bulls, in particular, seem to be quite high on the gregarious people-friendly scale. Some of them want to knock everyone down and slobber in their faces, but that’s not the same as being vicious.

And guns. Lots and lots of people killed by lots and lots of guns. Pit bulls with guns.

According to this recent article (video included of pit bulls that got rescued),

And people need to be afraid of pit bulls?