Not sure if this is exactly the right forum, but the question wasn’t deemed Cecil-worthy and I was advised to take it to the board. So here I am.
Anyway, I was just wondering about pit bulls - they’ve enjoyed a reputation (!?) as the baddest, scariest, nastiest dog on the block for at least 19 years now (I use Back To The Future II for that, heh) whether they actually deserve it or not. I was just wondering how much of that rep is based on fact.
It’s something that I wonder a little more intently after every time this debate comes up elsewhere because the defenses tend to be so lame - cute puppy pictures, meaningless things like “any breed can have violent dogs”, etc.
Violent asshats seem to like to raise them for dogfights. No individual I have ever met raised as a pet has been a problem dog. Pomeranians seem to be bigger biters.
I won’t comment because my answer would fall dead into IMHO territory. However, there is an interesting article herefrom the CDC site regarding dog breeds and dog bites with information about pit bills. WARNING - PDF FILE
You have no idea what can of worms you just opened up on this forum…
First off, your comment that the assertion “any breed can have violent dogs” is “lame” shows that you have some sort of bias already at work. All dogs are the same species, with the full temperament range in each breed. The Distribution of the range can vary, and has been reinforced over time by human breeding practices. So it is fair and correct to say that “any breed can have violent dogs” since any breed will have individuals of the whole range.
So perhaps “pit bulls” are in general, more dominant aggressive dogs in distribution. So are all the other breeds commonly implicated in attacks and breed bans. The same can be said for many of the little terriers and miniature guardian dogs. What this boils down to, is that human interaction, breeding practices, and espescially the training of the dog plays an enormous role in the adult animal’s behaviour.
Pit bull type dogs have had it really rough in recent times. As a breed they have been ill-bred by irresponsible people engaging in brutal and reprehensible behaviour. They are also commonly owned by people who have no idea how to care for, or train a dog with a high level of dominance. These owners are looking for a status symbol, a tough guy accessory. As a result of their ignorance and general stupidity, they tend to try and train the dog through aggressive and fear inducing techniques. This results in an unbalanced, nervous, aggressive animal.
So on the whole, No there is nothing special about pit bulls, or pit bull type dogs. They’ve just had it worse than the other breeds for a long time.
You don’t have to be a total dirtbag to like pitbulls, but they are one of the dogs of choice for total dirtbags…Just as most people who ride Harleys are not outlaw motorcycle gang members, but nearly all Bandidos and Hells Angels ride Harleys.
At the dog park I frequent, the pits seem to be as well socialized, and “play nice” as well as any of the other breeds. Honestly, I can tell more about how the dog is likely to behave looking at the owner than by looking at the dog.
And no, I neither own, nor am a great fan of the breed…just think they get a bum rap.
Some food for thought: Before pit bulls were the poster child for “scary, dangerous dog”, it was rottweilers, and before that Dobermans, and before that, German shepherds. Are those breeds any less dangerous now than they were when they had the bad reputation? Were pit bulls any less dangerous then than they are now?
The breeds themselves haven’t changed all that much in a scant few decades. What has changed, are the attitudes of the owners. There have always been thugs who want to have a tough, vicious dog. Such a thug will choose a dog of whatever breed has the meanest reputation, and then raise it to be mean. Back when rottweilers had the reputation as bad dogs, thugs would choose rottweilers for their “pets”, and raise them to be bad dogs. Now pit bulls have that reputation, so thugs get pit bulls and train them to be bad. Pit bulls don’t have a bad reputation because the breed is disproportionately nasty; they’re disproportionately nasty because they have a bad reputation.
As I see it, the problem isn’t the breed so much as the people associated with the breed.
A pit bull is a dog that is naturally LOADED with muscle. This makes them very attractive to people interested in security, but at the same time it makes them appeal to people who want to appear/be a badass.
People who want to be badass have a relatively high percentage of assholes, compared to the general population*. These would be the ones who “train” the dogs to be super-aggressive via abuse, dog fights, negligence, etc.
Any dog can become a biter/attacker when abused. Just the other night I saw a show on Animal Planet. They had to put down a chihuahua that was rescued from an abusive home, because any time it saw a person it would snap, bite, and bark.
Obviously, the little 6 pound chihuahua isn’t going to inspire fear in the general populace, but change it a 80-100 lb pit bull rippling w/ muscles and the fear sets in a lot quicker.
*I doubt that’s a studied fact, but it’s sure as hell true from my experiences
I don’t want to highjack the thread, but I thought as far as if you’re buying/adopting a dog, cocker spaniels and poodles are the worst biters in general.
This is all silly. Dog bite statistics show pit bulls cause more deaths than other dogs. We’ve done this discussion a thousand times, and the same cites show the same statistics and are ignored by the same people every time we do it. Rottweilers and Dobermans and German Shepherds suffered the same bad press that Pit Bulls do, but none of those breeds actually WERE as dangerous as their reputation (except maybe Rotts, which account for the 2nd highest number of bites and human fatalities). Pit Bulls are more likely to attack unprovoked than other dogs. Pit Bull attacks are more likely to be deadly than attacks from other dogs. Whether you want to blame owners or not is just semantics.
Think about it with common sense, here. Are you seriously arguing the idea that aggressiveness and mental instability are completely unaffected by genetics? Obviously, they are. Deliberate breeding of particular behavioral traits into dogs has happened to every dog breed. It’s the main reason there ARE different breeds in the first place. Some dogs ARE nastier and more likely to to attack someone unprovoked than other dogs.
Are rottweilers not “scary, dangerous dogs” anymore? I’m obviously biased here, but it’s a totally personal bias - I don’t recall ever hearing many opinions on them one way or the other. The only dog I’ve ever been scared of in my life was a rottweiller named Hammer that belonged to my dad’s friend Eddie. He was “150lbs” (said Eddie; I don’t know if they really get that big or not) and I was 7 years old, maybe 65lbs or so. That big bastard would bark like the hounds of hell whenever I went anywhere near him. One time we were all out back swimming and I had to go in to pee. Hammer was standing at the other end of the hallway near the bathroom door and barked a few times and then just bared his teeth and started growling. I think that was the moment I decided it was ok to pee in pools.
I have met many “teddy bear” rottweillers since then but it’s hard to talk logically to your inner child.
How much have those bites stats been influenced by people who chose a pit bull for its image and then cultivated/raised it to be a hostile dog? A lot, I’d say. Also, how many people have been bitten my a boxer breed or a bull terrier and reported being bitten “by a pit bull!”? Lots of people, even dog owners, can’t id pit bulls, so that’s got to come into play as well.
Physiologically pit bulls are potentially dangerous, but I believe the dogs behavior comes down to nurture. Breeding can likely effect a baseline temperament, but that’s only to the point of recognizing that a pit bull, like a saluki, grey hound, or terrier, might not be as inherently docile as other breeds.
The real world problem with pit bulls is not that they are being misused, mis-bred, misunderstood blah blah blah… the real problem is that they can kill you, and that certain people LOVE LOVE LOVE to use them as tools of intimidation. Even people who swoon and coo about what lovable sweeties their pit bulls are, are enthralled by the latent power of the breed.
Protestations of sweetness aside a hefty part of why people own spitballs is the sheer destructive latent power of the dog. The self aggrandizing lies of people who claim otherwise fume off of them like stink off a monkey.
This leads back to my argument of people wanting to look bad ass through their dog. The sheer destructive latent power is what makes them appeal to assholes/losers.
Under proper care a pit bull can be as sweet as a border collie, or whatever breed is your favorite.
I have a ten year old American Pit Bull Terrier. I got him as an eight week old puppy. He’s not the first pit bull I’ve raised either.
Pound for pound, they are the strongest breed of dog. They have the strongest jaws and the most powerful bite of any breed I am familiar with. They were bred for centuries to fight each other, so some them have a very strong drive to fight other dogs. This drive is known as ‘game’. This game can (rarely) be misdirected towards humans. A well bred, socialized and well raised pit bull will be a very loyal, loving pet. That said, I would not recomend them to a novice dog owner. Due to their strength, stamina and resistance to pain they can do more damage than any other breed if they bite a person. They require a very responsible master, lots of attention and a secure fenced yard. As a breed they are very emotionally dependent and cannot abide being ignored or neglected. I would not leave an unfamiliar pit bull alone with a child. If you do get a male pit bull, please get him neutered immediately. There are pit bull and pit bull mix puppies at every animal shelter. Also, neutering before he becomes game will make your dog much easier to manage and more pleasant to be around.
Personally, I’m glad my dog is ten years old. When he was young he was so game I couldn’t take him to the off-leash park because he would try to fight the biggest dog there. But as he has aged he has mellowed and no longer tries to fight other dogs. He has never nipped at or bit a human being. I hate to think what he could have done had he bitten a person when he was young and at his physical prime. I love my dog like a member of my family, but raising him has been a real hassle in lots of ways. At the same time, when I was at my emotional low point during my divorce, my dog loved me and tried to cheer me up every day.
Even if the “pit bulls” have the potential for doing greater damage with a bite than a smaller breed, that does not translate to a greater level of agression or propensity for biting.
A truck can do more damage in an accident than a Honda Civic, but that does not mean trucks are more likely to be involved in accidents. (Except for those who participate in truck demolition derbies.}
That is true. But back then, one may have heard of dog bites but not maulings. As a German Shephard owner and paper boy carrier, cautious with these breeds, I was only bitten by a “friendly” cocker spaniel and a “friendly” dalmation.
The attitude of owners haven’t changed, some have either just dicovered a scarier breed . and others a cute and cuddly breed.
The problem with the pit bull is the difficulty in interpreting their intentions and limits of tolerance, and the devastating
outcome when that tolerance is breached.
Most pedigreed breeds are not bred today to increase aggressiveness, including the American Staffordshire Terrier. However their must be very many pit bull nurseries out their that are doing just that to supply the idiots, and those genes do get around into friendly homes.
I have come to the conclusion that misidentification is the biggest reason statistics of late seem to show that pit bulls are the most involved breed in fatal dog attacks. I’ve been shocked at how many different dog breeds get called “pit bull.” Literally, it could be anything from a plain ol’ American bulldog to boxers to cane corsos.