Pit bulls

[gonzomax]

You can argue that it is not the breed it is the owner if you wish. But,how do I know when I confront one? I have to assume it is a nasty dog just to protect myself. I have bitched about pit owners on this board a few times. I have been attacked by pit bulls in the park when I walk my beagles several times. All different ones. Once 3 pit bulls came running at me and my dog. I dropped my dog into a trash can to keep it safe .Then I jumped on a picnic table. The owner ran up saying what they all say" they never did that before’. It gets old.
In my neighborhood you have to pay 500 bucks to have a pit. I hope it is insurance to pay for damage.

[Mosier]

@drastic_quench

Google it. General Patton famously had one.

Oh! The Target spokesdog!

[brujaja]

There are indeed pit bull breeders doing just that.

I live in Oakland, arguably the “home of pit bulls.” A friend of mine lived in a duplex with a downstairs neighbor that had two pit bull puppies, a brother and sister. All through the winter, those two little puppies shivered & huddled together. (they have very short, sparse hair.) The guy fed them A CAN of dog food every two or three days. We snuck food out to them all the time, and I used to go out and let them sit in my lap for warmth. They were so sweet, so loving, they’d kiss you and kiss you if you spoke a kind word to them.

Eventually, the guy decided it was time to start training them. (he was not a nice man.) We started to hear awful sounds, yelping and crying. The guy was trying to get the boy puppy to attack the (smaller) girl puppy, his sister. The puppies started having scratches & stuff. There was also a lot of yelling; apparently, the boy puppy just wouldn’t do it.

Finally the guy brought over some other dogs to show the boy puppy what to do. The sound was awful, just unbearable. The next morning, that little black & white girl puppy was all red with blood from huge bites and gashes. One front paw hung broken in a couple of places and her ear was torn.

We had a quick conference (the guy was known to have guns that he had brandished at my friends before) and then went out back and snatched her. We bathed her & put antiseptic on her & smuggled her out in a duffle bag. The poor thing never complained and made no sound or struggle in the bag. When we got a couple blocks away, we let her out of the bag, and soon found her a loving home.

Some of my friends have pit bulls also. Some of them can be a little more aggressive with other dogs, but they are in my experience always wonderful with people. One very good friend’s dog used to let my little son tuck a cheetah-print towel into her collar to make her into “super cheetah dog.” That same dog later let her owner’s baby girl climb all over her, poke her eyes & pull her tail, and never once even snapped.

Personally, I’m scared of chows.

[Chronos]

Quoth astro:

The real world problem with pit bulls is not that they are being misused, mis-bred, misunderstood blah blah blah… the real problem is that they can kill you, and that certain people LOVE LOVE LOVE to use them as tools of intimidation. Even people who swoon and coo about what lovable sweeties their pit bulls are, are enthralled by the latent power of the breed.

Certainly, when a pit bull goes bad, it’s worse than when, say, a beagle goes bad. But a lab could probably kill you, too, and everyone says that labs are wonderful pets. And a pit bull may be the strongest dog of its size, but I still wouldn’t bet that a St. Bernard isn’t stronger (though admittedly they’re more likely to attack with projectile slobber than by biting). Where’s all the hysteria about St. Bernards?

[gravitycrash]

We always joked that our big bad pit bull/boxer mix would show a thief where the valuables in the house were. She wasn’t the brightest dog be she might have been the most lovable one that I’ve owned. I never for a second felt apprehension leaving my daughter alone with her.

As others have said I really believe it is how a dog is raised. Just because a pit bull is naturally strong doesn’t mean that it is inherently unpredictable or mean. In fact the only time I recall her getting upset was when the neighbors cat had the audacity to climb the fence into our yard.

[Tyrannorabbit]

@Acid_Lamp

You have no idea what can of worms you just opened up on this forum…

Ha! No, I had a pretty good idea. This is usually good for five or six pages on the other forum I frequent, heh.

First off, your comment that the assertion “any breed can have violent dogs” is “lame” shows that you have some sort of bias already at work. All dogs are the same species, with the full temperament range in each breed. The Distribution of the range can vary, and has been reinforced over time by human breeding practices. So it is fair and correct to say that “any breed can have violent dogs” since any breed will have individuals of the whole range.

But my point is the statement is meaningless (and hence lame) - any breed can have violent dogs, but so what? That says nothing about what breeds are more violent than others, or even if one breed can be more violent than others.

[Tyrannorabbit]

@Chronos

Some food for thought: Before pit bulls were the poster child for “scary, dangerous dog”, it was rottweilers, and before that Dobermans, and before that, German shepherds. Are those breeds any less dangerous now than they were when they had the bad reputation? Were pit bulls any less dangerous then than they are now?

That’s why I put in the Back To The Future II reference; pit bulls have been the Big Bad Dog for at least 19 years now. I don’t know if it’s a long time compared to when the other breeds enjoyed that station, but it just seems like a long time to me, especially in a day of short attention spans and news cycles; as if thug breeders and thug owners alike have been happy for a long time with what they’ve chosen to be the thuggiest dog on the block, and no serious contender has been put forth to out-thug it.

I mean come on, Dobermans were good enough for the son of Satan. Surely they’re due for a bad-boy comeback.

[dolphinboy]

@Chronos

Quoth astro:Certainly, when a pit bull goes bad, it’s worse than when, say, a beagle goes bad. But a lab could probably kill you, too, and everyone says that labs are wonderful pets. And a pit bull may be the strongest dog of its size, but I still wouldn’t bet that a St. Bernard isn’t stronger (though admittedly they’re more likely to attack with projectile slobber than by biting). Where’s all the hysteria about St. Bernards?

So how many people have been viciously attacked by a St. Bernard? Pit bulls are often bred to be aggressive and I have seen one chase down and then pull apart a cat for no particular reason. They have amazing jaw strength and my father-in-law, who was a police office, once had to put 5 slugs into one before it would release from an adults leg. Most dogs would release their grip from just the sound of a gun.

Pit bull owners keep thinking it’s someone else’s dog until one day their dog becomes unhinged. In my community one bite from a pit bull, no matter how innocent, means the dog is likely to be destroyed. We have zero tolerance for dogs that attack humans.

While we can’t outlaw them we can at least make it harder for them to do damage.

[drastic_quench]

@dolphinboy

So how many people have been viciously attacked by a St. Bernard? Pit bulls are often bred to be aggressive and I have seen one chase down and then pull apart a cat for no particular reason. They have amazing jaw strength and my father-in-law, who was a police office, once had to put 5 slugs into one before it would release from an adults leg. Most dogs would release their grip from just the sound of a gun.

Pit bull owners keep thinking it’s someone else’s dog until one day their dog becomes unhinged. In my community one bite from a pit bull, no matter how innocent, means the dog is likely to be destroyed. We have zero tolerance for dogs that attack humans.

While we can’t outlaw them we can at least make it harder for them to do damage.

Cujo was a St. Bernard, but they never caught on as scary - unless you count the Beethoven movies.

[Miltonyz]

Pit bulls are often bred to be aggressive and I have seen one chase down and then pull apart a cat for no particular reason.

Understand that is is something called prey drive and is not the same thing as human aggression. A pitbull is a terrier and ALL terriers have a heightened prey drive so do hounds and husky type dogs.

I did some googling and found this link some imho good information in this link of course slanted towards the cause the author was trying to push but a lot of work was obviously put into it and many experts consulted.

http://www.understand-a-bull.com/BSL/Research/BSLPacket/lawsbsl_presspack_low.pdf

I was just doing some googling on St Bernards took about 5 minutes

http://www.theworldlink.com/articles/2006/08/16/news/news02081606.prt

http://www.countypress.com/stories/061108/loc_20080611035.shtml

[Chronos]

In my community one bite from a pit bull, no matter how innocent, means the dog is likely to be destroyed. We have zero tolerance for dogs that attack humans.

Or at least, you have zero tolerance for pit bulls that bite humans. Are labs, border collies, and spaniels destroyed after a single bite, too? Because I’ve been bitten by all three, and all three of them were otherwise good family dogs.

[BMax]

@Acid_Lamp

Crap. Repeating commonly heard “knowledge” doesn’t make any of it true.

Acid Lamp want to come over here?

[Leaffan]

There’s no chance my Bichon will kill either of my kids. Therefore I picked an appropriate breed for my lifestyle and situation. Why anyone with kids would choose a pit bull as a family pet is beyond comprehension.

ETA: It’s like deciding to fly your kids to nursery school every day in an ultralight aircraft instead of driving them in a car.

[Sateryn76]

@brujaja

There are indeed pit bull breeders doing just that.

I live in Oakland, arguably the “home of pit bulls.” A friend of mine lived in a duplex with a downstairs neighbor that had two pit bull puppies, a brother and sister. All through the winter, those two little puppies shivered & huddled together. (they have very short, sparse hair.) The guy fed them A CAN of dog food every two or three days. We snuck food out to them all the time, and I used to go out and let them sit in my lap for warmth. They were so sweet, so loving, they’d kiss you and kiss you if you spoke a kind word to them.

Eventually, the guy decided it was time to start training them. (he was not a nice man.) We started to hear awful sounds, yelping and crying. The guy was trying to get the boy puppy to attack the (smaller) girl puppy, his sister. The puppies started having scratches & stuff. There was also a lot of yelling; apparently, the boy puppy just wouldn’t do it.

Finally the guy brought over some other dogs to show the boy puppy what to do. The sound was awful, just unbearable. The next morning, that little black & white girl puppy was all red with blood from huge bites and gashes. One front paw hung broken in a couple of places and her ear was torn.

We had a quick conference (the guy was known to have guns that he had brandished at my friends before) and then went out back and snatched her. We bathed her & put antiseptic on her & smuggled her out in a duffle bag. The poor thing never complained and made no sound or struggle in the bag. When we got a couple blocks away, we let her out of the bag, and soon found her a loving home.

Some of my friends have pit bulls also. Some of them can be a little more aggressive with other dogs, but they are in my experience always wonderful with people. One very good friend’s dog used to let my little son tuck a cheetah-print towel into her collar to make her into “super cheetah dog.” That same dog later let her owner’s baby girl climb all over her, poke her eyes & pull her tail, and never once even snapped.

Personally, I’m scared of chows.

Why didn’t you call the police immediately?

[Sateryn76]

I have always felt that there is something different about pit bulls. Some of the problem is that they are so strong, so the damage is always going to be worse. But, it is my opinion that pit bulls have something wrong with them - they just seem to snap. Perhaps it is breeding, but they are just not safe.

That is how I felt for most of my life…

Then, I got the call that my cousin had been attacked by a pitbull. He is a dog lover, had been living next door to the dog for a few years, has had many dogs of his own. The dog owners, his neighbors, were friends with my cousin and his girlfriend. The husband was a professional dog trainer who worked with the local PD (where my cousin also works), and the dog was a purebred, not a rescue dog or anything like that. One of those situations that pro pitbull people say are the safest, right?

He was talking to the neighbors (and their dog) with his girlfriend. The girlfriend leans over to the dog, giving it kisses and the whole “wooby-wooby” thing. Then it’s my cousin’s turn - he did the same, and instead of the dog responding as it had to the girlfriend (and to my cousin on many prior occasions) it took a chomp at his face. It took about 87 stitches to get my cousin’s lip back together. He keeps the missing part in a jar, just for fun…

Thankfully, the dog was killed the next day. I hope it suffered…

[drastic_quench]

@Sateryn76

Why didn’t you call the police immediately?

Yeah, what the fuck was that about? Call the damn cops.

[Whack-a-Mole]

@Chronos

Quoth astro:Certainly, when a pit bull goes bad, it’s worse than when, say, a beagle goes bad. But a lab could probably kill you, too, and everyone says that labs are wonderful pets. And a pit bull may be the strongest dog of its size, but I still wouldn’t bet that a St. Bernard isn’t stronger (though admittedly they’re more likely to attack with projectile slobber than by biting). Where’s all the hysteria about St. Bernards?

In another thread on the front page about evil Pugs (;)) someone posted this link (PDF).

From that Pit Bulls are far and away the most dangerous breed. For fatalities the Pit-breeds account for 66 deaths since 1979. Next closest are Rottweilers at 39 then German Shepherds at 17. The Saint Bernard is at 7.

So, Pit Bull types are clearly the most dangerous but how much of this is due to them being bred by bad people for bad things?

[wonky]

I only have three words for this thread: Misidentification, misidentification, misidentification.

[Acid_Lamp]

@Whack-a-Mole

In another thread on the front page about evil Pugs (;)) someone posted this link (PDF).

From that Pit Bulls are far and away the most dangerous breed. For fatalities the Pit-breeds account for 66 deaths since 1979. Next closest are Rottweilers at 39 then German Shepherds at 17. The Saint Bernard is at 7.

So, Pit Bull types are clearly the most dangerous but how much of this is due to them being bred by bad people for bad things?

I don’t know if the numbers are out there, but pitbull and pitbull mix type dogs are among the most common and popular breeds. If they command a significantly larger proportion of the population then they will be disproportionately misrepresented in statistics as well.

[Chronos]

From that Pit Bulls are far and away the most dangerous breed. For fatalities the Pit-breeds account for 66 deaths since 1979. Next closest are Rottweilers at 39 then German Shepherds at 17. The Saint Bernard is at 7.

So, Pit Bull types are clearly the most dangerous but how much of this is due to them being bred by bad people for bad things?

That’s not clear to me at all. Even assuming that those statistics are accurate, how many pit bulls are there in the country, versus how many St. Bernards? I wouldn’t be at all surprised if pit bulls are ten times more common, and even less surprised if dogs that statistic would call pit bulls are ten times more common.