I was listening to a radio program this afternoon where a professor of theology was discussing new stats that say that many Hispanics in the US (it might have been specifically people of Mexican descent) are turning away from the RC church toward Pentecostalism.
The professor said, paraphrased, “We’re starting to see, though this needs more research certainly, that Pentecostalism is the last step before, well, nothing. People go from Pentecostalism to no religion at all.”
The show had a break then, and I reached my destination right after, so I didn’t hear any follow up. But is this true? If it is, why? If it’s not, is there any reason it might appear to be true?
Hmm. That’s interesting, if true. I had heard that while just about all denominations are shrinking, there has been a trend of younger church goers moving from non-liturgical (Baptist, Church of God, etc) to liturgical traditions (Methodist, Episcopal, Catholic). But even the RCC and mainline churches are shrinking.
Of course if all denominations are shrinking, it stands to reason that most people are moving to nothing. It would be fascinating to see which traditions lose the most followers to other churches, and which ones, and which traditions tend to lose people to sleeping late on Sunday.
I have no idea what the professor could be referring to. Pentecostals tend to be Christian evangelicals and fundamentalists. You don’t get much more religious than that. It may be a move away from the Roman Catholic church itself but I fail to see how that anything has to do with it.
It sounds similar to saying the next step beyond becoming Southern Baptist is no religion. No its not. Maybe the person is hopelessly confused about what Pentecostalism is and believes it is a very liberal and loose set of quasi-religious beliefs like Unitarianism or something. It isn’t so I don’t understand the comment either.
Heh. That’s interesting. I’m always saying that if I had been brought up in any other kind of church besides a Pentacostal one, MAYBE I’d still be a believer.
There was something about seeing all those writhing bodies on the floor, foaming at the mouth, and muttering jibberish that convinced me that Christianity is a joke. I’ve attended many different church services and visited many denominations as an adult. But my memories of being in church always go back to my youth, when I became skilled at guessing the exact moment people would start catching the Holy Ghost based on the speed of the organ music. And I could always guess who was going to catch the Holy Ghost, because it was always the same people every week carrying on in the aisles. The Holy Ghost never visited my holiest-of-holy parents. It never visited me either, even though that would have been a great way to win over a doubting soul. And as frenzied as the congregation would get during the HG moments, nothing really impressive would ever happen. Just a lot of sweat and tears and shouting. None of the “tongues” were accompanied by interpreters. No miracles were performed. No healing. No prophecy. Just a bunch of dancing and fainting and arm waving. But the music was always really good, at least.
It’s appealing if you’re already bent in that direction. But if you have doubts or you’re not real passionate about your faith, then you may not want to become a Pentacostalist.
I don’t agree with the professor, but I can see where he’s coming from in a traditional, mainline Christian sort of way.
Both the Catholics and the mainline Protestants have a tradition of theological study based on intense reading of the Bible and other texts, studies of the evolution of faith back to the ancient Jews, etc., etc.
Pentecostalism is based on intense, personal relationship with God. Everything else takes a back seat. There’s no need for an extensive theology, because the Bible is literal. There’s no need for an ecclesialstical structure – there’s barely even a need for a minister. And, as 74westy points out, if you’re from the “sit in the pew and listen to the minister” tradition of Christianity, the services can seem sort of showbizzy.
I didn’t have the sense that he was making a value statement. He was just saying that conversion to Pentecostalism is often followed by becoming non-religious.
Maybe Pentecostalists tend to die out due to low fitness (in the Darwinian sense, which of course they wouldn’t believe in but it happens anyway). They seem to have a high mortality rate from snake bites.
It’s true that Pentecostalism has a relatively low ‘retention rate’. However, some highly intellectual, culturally ‘liberal’ churches have an even worse one. Pentecostalism as a whole is still growing, because while many people raised in the Pentecostal church convert to other faiths (or to none), even more people convert to Pentecostalism.
The best source I’ve seen on retention rates, interconversion, etc. is the Pew Forum study, I think entitled 'Changing Religious Landscape", which is very interesting and everyone interested in this stuff should check out. It has some surprising findings (including that atheism/agnosticism have quite a low retention rate themselves: around 50% of people raised atheist or agnostic end up practicing a religion as an adult).
I’m sure that was a joke, but evangelical Christians (including Pentecostalists) actually have a modestly higher fertility rate than other religious groups. Nonreligious people have around 1.5 child per woman, Catholics and mainline Protestants have around 2.1, and evangelicals are around 2.5 (I think Mormons are a little under 3, IIRC).
Speaking from a Lutheran upbringing I remember it being emphasized that emotion had no place in public worship. That doesn’t seem very Biblical to me but I suppose it was a pre-emptive attempt to keep us out of the Pentecostal Church. They needn’t have bothered as I don’t think there were any around where I grew up.
When the church I grew up in switched from Evangelical to ALC the passing of the Peace gave everybody the vapors.
The pattern that I have experienced mirrors this. RC in that God’s powers and mysticism is reserved for the select few and we will let you know the outcome. Pentecostal is you to can experience it under our divine appointment. What is beyond that is you can experience and be a major part of that without any religion just by God directly bypassing any worldly religious structures .
No. He said the last step before no religion or possibly non-religious. He specifically pointed out how the Hispanic population’s no religion or non-religious (I don’t know which it was) percentage is also climbing quickly.
Based on a quick googling, he must have said “No religious affiliation.”
Maybe he was commenting specifically on Hispanic converts. If you convert away from your cradle religion of Catholicism to Pentecostalism, you’re already halfway to leaving religion behind altogether.
I think there could be something to that. If you’re willing to convert once, maybe your willingness to convert again is higher, or maybe more simply if you’re willing to convert it means you are seeking something.
Yep, what **Lemur **and **jsgoddess **said. The Hispanics have come from a deeply catholic culture in which catholicism would have been basically the only game in town, and not just a religion but a way of life. Inertia would be all that would be required to keep most of them in catholicism
Then they move to the US and move to the local culture which for some will mean a move to pentacostalism. Now suddenly they are mobile, and a certain percentage are going to think about the possibilty of not bothering with religion at all.
It’s a bit like the way a man with one watch knows what the time is, but a man with two isn’t quite sure because each watch says something different so he begins to question whether either is right.