0 nicotine e-cigs and non-smokers

Factual Questions
1

I’ve got a friend who has been trying to lose weight for a long time. She’s not trying to lose vanity pounds-- she probably weights about 250 and is only about 5’3, and is developing signs of type II diabetes. She has pretty much cut all added sugar out of her diet (that is, she uses Splenda, sugar-free candy, yogurt etc., but occasionally eats things that have sugar, like breakfast cereal-- she never* adds* sugar to anything though). She also uses fat free or low-fat products whenever possible.

She looks to me like she’s lost a little weight since she changed her diet. She craves snacks sometimes, though, and while she’s quit eating cookies and candy, now she eats fruit and breakfast cereal, scrupulously measured, or fat-free, sugar-free pudding made with high protein milk.

However, she thinks that what she really needs to do is completely cut out all snacks, and eat 4 meals each day that are 400 to 500 calories, period.

So she’s trying to figure out how to deal with snack cravings. I told her to try sugarless gum.

She has the crazy idea that she should take up vaping and use the 0-nicotine juices that taste like fruit or snack foods.

She’s a non-smoker who has never smoked, and says she isn’t going to inhale, just puff on the things. I thinks she’s nuts. I think she’ll end up inhaling, and I recently read an article that even 0-nic vaping destroys the bond between epithelial cells in the lungs, and irritates the bronchi, making you more vulnerable to both infections, and the changes that can become cancer.

She says her main concerns are the facts that second-hand vapor isn’t harmful, because it sinks, and she won’t be littering butts or ash. Also, 0 nicotine means she won’t get addicted, so she can quit when she loses weight.

She’s hoping she can get her insurance to approve weight loss surgery for her now that she has diabetes signs, but for some reason, she has to demonstrate her commitment by losing some weight on her own first.

Is this vaping thing as bad an idea as it sounds? or are the health effects outweighed by the possibility of resolving type II diabetes. And can vaping really do that? or is she fantasizing? Will this give any satisfaction to a non-smoker?

Has anyone out there tried this? either for weight loss, or just for pleasure?

2

I use e cigarettes.
In one “discussion” thread :slight_smile: a test was found where the presence of various metals, the kind that are in electrical solder, were found. That may be from the connection of the heating element.

3

That “study” turned up the power on the ecig to a level that no human being could possibly vape; they would instantly spit and hack and turn the power down or throw away the defective device.

In England the National Health Service now prescribes and gives away ecigs to people who want to quit smoking.

There is debate about the safety of ecigs but most of the negative reports come from agenda-driven anti-tobacco sources (such as the University of California) rather than actual science.

Vaping: e-cigarettes safer than smoking, says Public Health England

Some people, like fashion models, have been known to smoke cigarettes to help with weight control. Might be worth a try. May not be 100% safe (few things are), but may well be safer than being grossly obese.

4

Cigarettes curb food cravings because they contain nicotine. 0 nicotine e-cigs by definition do not, and would have little effect, and while I don’t think anyone denies they’re safer than smoking, I don’t think they’re safer than not vaping.

5

I’m sure not vaping is safer than vaping. I’m also pretty sure smoking cigarettes is less healthy than being obese, except maybe in a few very specific cases where you compare a light smoker to someone who weighs upwards of 500lbs., but that isn’t a realistic example.

Anyway, my friends idea is that putting something with taste but no calories in her mouth will keep her from snacking.

I can see that working in theory, I just don’t know how good something designed to satisfy smokers will taste to a non-smoker, and I don’t know how good the trade-off is.

In addition to the type II diabetes, she had pain in her knees that keeps her from getting much exercise If the vaping could help her lose even 20lbs., she might start getting more exercise, and then this would up her weight loss.

I don’t really get the whole “No surgery until you lose weight on your own” thing, but she doesn’t need to depend on this strategy to lose 100lbs., just 30 or so, which means light at the end of the tunnel, so he willpower might last

I dunno. I suppose even if she smoked actual cigarettes for just six months of so, she probably would be OK, it’s just that she wouldn’t be able to stop, and vaping with 0 nicotine, she should be able to quit. I hope. I hope the physical feeling of vaping isn’t “addicting” on its own.

So, I guess there’s no data on vaping and weight loss. It probably isn’t anything doctors are going to start recommending soon.

6

Nothing mentioned here about the other half of weight loss – increasing her expenditure of calories. Is she exercising more? Just things like always parking her car at the far side of the lot, taking stairs instead of the elevator for 2 floors or less, etc. Unless she’s doing that too, she’s not likely to lose much weight.

(Humans have evolved in an environment where famine was pretty common, and our bodies can deal with this. A sudden decrease in food intake causes the body to switch into starvation mode, and that is generally more effective at preserving weight than most people are at sticking to their diet. So dieting without increasing exercise generally fails.)

7

That want to know that the patient will not gain the weight back. Perhaps the medical community wants to preserve their reputation of being successful, I dunno.

8

I would like to read about that. have you a link, or a name that I may google?

In the USA they want to make money off of it, or call it bad because smoking is bad.
:dubious:

9

Right now, no, she’s not getting much exercise. About the only thing she can do without pain is swim, and she’s embarrassed to do that. She used to walk a lot when she weighed less, but was still heavy, so I think she won’t have to lose too much before she can start walking more. It’s pretty cold and icy here. With any luck, by the time the weather clears up, she’ll be ready to start walking to the store instead of driving again.

I suggested she get a dog, because that’ll force her to walk a mile every day, or put up with a stir crazy dog. She rolled her eyes.

I sprained my knee at work and was off it altogether for two days, and limited movement for a week (I got to ride the cart at Walmart), so I sympathize a lot with knee pain. I like to bike, even in the winter, and I’m still not doing that yet.

10

I don’t remember exactly where I read it but here is another study on the effects of “dry puffs”.
E-cigarettes generate high levels of aldehydes only in ‘dry puff’ conditions

You may be able to find the one concerning metals on that site – I think that study was done in Japan.

Another good site for actual ecig research (as opposed to scare mongering):
E-Cigarette Research

11

I don’t have an opinion on e-cigarettes, but I don’t think her plan will work. Having the taste of something sweet in her mouth will not make her want sweet things less. If I eat something sweet early in the day, I crave sweets all day. It’s better to just avoid sweetened things (including cereal and sweetened yogurt) completely.

12

I’d say it’s a veiled attempt of the insurance companies trying to save a few bucks. I am currently half way through a (so far) year and a half process in getting my insurance co, a moderately good one, to authorize the only Asthma Medicines that work for me, Advair and non-generic Ventolin. I have to try out 10 or so other medications first, the only difference being they’re slightly cheaper (and don’t work). other than Advair which is expensive AS HELL. My insurance rep actually said they want me to haul around a big-arse respirator for albutarol liquid tubes and plug in to a wall socket for prevention AND rescue treatment. And then sit there doing nothing other than breathing for at least 15 minutes. :rolleyes:

This is why Universal Healthcare (ala Obamacare) will NEVER work in America, not enough business practice regulations for the medical industry, and too many profit hungry corporations.

13

I would second this- my instinct is that while inhaling chemical aerosols (vaping) can be safer than inhaling burning leaves (smoking), it’s not likely to be safer than inhaling air. I predict that there will be studies down the line showing increasing incidences of hypersensitivity pneumonitis and other lung diseases, but I guess we’ll just have to wait.

It’s a pity your friend is not interested in your sugarless gum suggestion. It offers other benefits (beneficial for stress relief, teeth, and GER). Still, it’s not for everyone. I would do it more, but my job requires frequent talking on telephones and other devices, and I find gum not so great for the workplace. But it can’t be more inconvenient or costly than vaping, can it? I suspect, that your friend thinks vaping looks ‘cool’.

14

She’s in her late 40s. If anything, it’s the other way-- chewing gum looks juvenile. I doubt she’s worried about looking cool. I don’t think she thinks smoking of vaping of any type looks cool.

Also, gum says “not non-caloric” on it. It still can’t possibly have as many calories as chocolate cream pie, but I think she’s just going overboard trying to cut every calorie she can instead of making healthy changes to her diet, but she just wants to prove she can have this surgery, then she’ll worry about “sensible” later.

15

I hate to rez a dead thread, but I’ve learned a few things about vaping since then.

First of all, its ALL unregulated and most of the liquids have impurities from bad quality control in China where most of them are made. Also the flavors have been shown to cause problems as well for example “popcorn lung” from the buttery flavor (diacetyl) of some of them.

The only TRUE way to “vape safe” (well “safer”) is to do what my cousin does and buy a special vape that can vape pure veggie glycerin, buy the pure nicotine liquid from a reputable source, be VERY CAREFUL what flavors you pick, and make your own juice. He’s gone from a 2 pack a day smoker to a vape-er with juice he makes himself with barely any nicotine in it, much less than an ultra light cigarette.

You really have to be an enlightened consumer these days and always do your homework.

BTW, I’m surprised no-one mentioned this but caffeine is an appetite suppressor also, and a lot of green teas taste great without sugar. Try to find some “Emperor Grade” raw green tea from a specialty store. It boosts your metabolism as well plus green tea is a known anti-oxidant. Also your friend would look sophisticated sipping tea, I’m sure she wouldn’t mind that. :wink:

Finally, while I have this thread rezed, any updates?

16

I don’t see how it would help, at the contrary. I have vaped. Fruity tastes and the like tended to make me hungry, because I had the taste in mouth as if I had eaten something except that I hadn’t.

17

This kind of talk sounds like it comes straight from a press release from some agenda-driven anti-tobacco organization.

It is not at all difficult these days to find Made in the USA eliquid. I live in a rural area in a very small town, yet less than 10 miles away is a vape shop run by a chemist with a PHD. In the shop is a glass walled clean-room lab in which you can watch him make your eliquid to order. He uses no diacetyl or acetyl propionyl, and uses nicotine extracted from tobacco organically grown in the USA. (Note that the big American pharmaceutical companies making nicotine patches and lozenges use nicotine extracted in China or India from the floor sweepings of cigarette factories.)

It is not difficult to find American made eliquid online, and many makers do not use the questionable flavorings … some provide lab analysis reports of their ingredients.

For accurate information, it is far better to avoid press releases of agenda-driven organizations and look at the actual research. For example, here is a just released ( 28 April 2016) paper from the Royal College of Physicians: Nicotine without smoke: Tobacco harm reduction.

For summaries and links to actual scientific research on e-cigs: http://www.ecigarette-research.org/research/

18

For what it’s worth, the vast majority of vapers are former or current cigarette smokers. Almost no non-smokers pick up the vaping habit. My guess is she will find it unpleasant in a way someone who is used to smoking tobacco won’t.

19

I believe most people use them, like me, to quit smoking. The manufacturers do not want this known, nor do they usually advertise them as a smoking cessation aid, lest they run afoul of the government with testing, regulation and a substantial price increase.

20

They can’t advertise them as a smoking cessation aid because the FDA has not approved them for that purpose. Those of us that use them, though, are under no such limitations.