I think so, too, but I sure don’t want anyone thinking “man, that ForumBot guy sure is a jerk, picking on Lib out of nowhere like that…” You never know how people might interpret what gets said around here.
You know, I was just thinking of a former poster. Her name was Oh, Snappity.
I wonder why that is?
Here’s something different; some actual facts. I had a little spare time at work today and I pulled up the files on ten prisoners. To keep it random, I pulled up the first ten men sent to prison in New York State in 2008. I won’t give their names obviously but these are actual prisoners who are in prison at this moment.
“A” - Burglary 3rd - 2 to 4 year sentence - maximum security - 40 years old. Burglarized a gas station and stole two cars from the parking lot. Criminal history began at 17. Has ten prior convictions and three previous prison terms.
“B” - Criminal Mischief 3rd, Criminal Contempt 1st - 1 to 3 years - medium - 19. Broke up with his girlfriend and vandalized her car. An Order of Protection was issued. He violated it, followed her into a parking lot, punched her, and then had three (female) friends beat her up. One previous conviction (burglary) from when he was 17 and for which he was on probation at the time of this crime. First prison term.
“C” - Criminal Sale Controlled Substance 3rd, Criminal Possession Controlled Substance 3rd - 0 to 1 year - medium - 27. Admits to use of alcohol, cocaine, heroin, marijuana. Three previous convictions (drugs and petit larceny). Sold crack to an undercover police officer. First prison term.
“D” - Burglary 2nd and 3rd - 2 1/2 to 3 years - medium - 55. Criminal history going back to 1967. 19 previous convictions (mostly larceny and drugs). Admits use of alcohol, cocaine, heroin. Broke into and robbed a church. Fourth prison term.
“E” - Robbery 2nd - 0 to 3 1/2 years - medium - 22. Criminal history began at 16. Five youthful offender adjudications (which is the equivalent of a conviction) and four prior convictions (larceny and drugs). Admits use of alcohol, cocaine, heroin, marijuana. Mugged a man, punched him, stole his wallet and wedding ring. First prison term.
“F” - Robbery 2nd - 0 to 10 years - maximum - 24. Criminal history began at 15. YO adjudication and three previous convictions. This conviction was for three armed muggings. Second prison term.
“G” - Sexual Contact with a Child 1st - 0 to 5 years - medium - 46. Had intercourse and oral sex with two nieces while babysitting them, starting when they were six and continuing over a four year period. No past criminal history.
“H” - Criminal Possession Weapon 3rd - 2 to 4 years - medium - 25. Criminal history began at 18. Two prior convictions. Shoplifted a video game. When the alarm went off, he threatened the employees with a knife to get away. Second prison term.
“I” - Rape 1st, Sexual Abuse 1st, Criminal Sexual Act 1st - 0 to 15 years - maximum - 53. Criminal history began at 23. Six prior convictions (mostly larceny). Uses alcohol, cocaine, crack, heroin. Raped woman at knifepoint. Second prison term.
“J” - Criminal Possession Weapon 3rd, Robbery 1st - 6 to 8 years - maximum - 30. Criminal history began at 16. Two YO adjudications and seven prior convictions (drugs and weapon possession). Mugged a man using a gun. Later arrested for open container violation and found to be in possession of an illegal gravity knife and a gun. Third prison term.
So we have ten “typical” prisoners. Nobody is in prison for using marijuana. (“D” was convicted of marijuana use once in the past and paid a $29 fine.) Nine of the ten have past criminal histories, including a total of 55 previous convictions and eleven prison terms between them (not including the ten current ones). None of these guys is in prison for committing just one crime (even “G” committed numerous counts of the crime he was convicted of). These are the kind of people who are actually in prison - real criminals who have chosen to commit real crimes over a period of years.
I agree with you Little Nemo, I have yet to hear of anyone sent to prison for personal marijuana. Typically it takes most people a while to make it big.
But look at how many had prior substance problems. From your list, 50%.
the article cited is “incarcerated”, though, no? and I can assure you plenty of folk end up incarcerated (in jail) for personal mj.
Could you assure us…with a cite?
It used to be in MN that a small amount- less than .25 of an ounce, if my long term memory serves me correctly, was about a $25 fine. Like a parking ticket. Typically it was just confiscated. This was after the start of the WAR ON DRUGS, and when everyone was really clamping down on coke and crack. I find it very hard to believe that anyone is doing jail time for a small amount of pot if that’s their only offense. If they have a record, all bets are off.
Just like Nemo’s examples, criminals rarely stick to just one thing, but there’s definitely a theme with most.
In my example the people in question are habitual offenders, and since the shorter terms (something even as short as an overnight to start) will have demonstrated that their behavior cannot be modified, that ceases to be a concern and it tips over into punishment.
We can’t stop everybody from being criminals. The ones that we can’t stop need to go away.
I agree. The reasons people commit crimes are often drug related. But the crimes they commit are still crimes. If somebody steals my car I don’t care if he sold it to buy heroin or to buy opera tickets.
You didn’t want him to explain himself, you had to have know all along he was talking about victimless crime. Hell, my cat figuered that one out. You just wanted to bust his chops. The OP brings up a good debating point, one that for some reason you don’t want to debate, wanting instead to just give him a hard time. :rolleyes:
Well, this IS the Pit. 
Jail data isn’t collected the same way prison data is, published, etc. Hell, even theprison data isn’t colleced that way (category is drugs’, often not noting type).
I’ve worked with hundreds of offenders annually for the past 30 years, and have run thousands of background checks. yes, I’ve seen it. don’t believe me? fine.
I don’t think getting caught with a joint is going to land you in prison unless you live in one fucked up place. Isnm’t it just a misdemeanor? I guess someone with more legal experience otr a person thats actually been busted for it can answer that question.
Should pot be illegal? I don’t know. Considering the stupid crap people do when they drink i’m a bit wary of what they might do if they’re both drunk and HIGH. How would you regulate it? If pot were legal I’d imagine it would be against the law to drive while under its influence. There are many people who’d have to be drug tested regularly that aren’t now. doctors? Hell yeah. You ain’t operating on me unless i know you haven’t been tokin’ on the icky of the sticky. Plus, cops and military personnel who are tested would now have to be watched even more closely. you don’t want a cop that might have smoked a joint or two on his lunch break or an artillery man that s a bit off of his game.
Phillip morris would be pumping out packs of 20 unfiltered Marlboro Mary Janes. Heck, the marlboro man would have a new partner, Mary Jane Man, standing majestically next to him on billboards wearing torn jeans and a tie dyed shirt sporting those white guy dreadlocks. At least the sales on snack food would skyrocket when many more people have the munchies every day.
Contrary to what I’d heard before going, Pot isn’t legal in amsterdam. the authorities just don’t bother enforce any non-pot laws, especially near the red light district. I suppose the dutch can handle it, the question is, can people in the US? (I’m not seeing it…i think Americans have less impulse control, but YMMV)
Hey…HEY!
I love comic books…ban them and Hulk smash.
I try to not drink more than 2 cups of coffee a day. I’ve even pretty much quit drinking beer. maybe one or 2 every ten or so days now. But start prohibition on comics, caffiene or alcohol and i’m Robin Hood, Al Capone and the guy from Farenhiet 451.
and thats all **Absolute ** is saying. but alluva sudden everyone’s jumping on him with stuff like “so you’d throw a guy in jail for reading Daredevil, huh?” and such, as if he were supporting the taliban.
Its not like people are being tarred and feathered, horsewhipped or put in the stocks for smoking pot. If there was some kind of cruel or unusual punishment involved, Absolute would sound like a jerk, but theres not. No one is being stoned for smoking pot…oh, sh**…i didn’t realize how that sounds until I had typed it. :smack:
I wish you had asked me that. You want a list?
[ul]Men shouldn’t get their ears pierced. I’m not a homophobe, i just think it looks stupid. for that matter men shouldn’t wear sandals unless they’re at the beach or something. most guys have ugly, hairy feet anyway.[/ul]
[ul]If you have your car stereo on so loud it can be heard from 20 feet away you get a week in jail. If theres a lot of bass, you get a week in jail on bread and water.[/ul]
[ul]If you haven’t mastered basic math or english by the time you graduate High School your parents get fined $1000. Also your teachers lose a months pay.
[/ul]
[ul]Littering should carry a mandatory 24 hours sitting in the stocks where people can throw rotten tomatoes at you. You’ll have to clean up the tomatoes when your punishment is done, also.
[/ul]
[ul]If you’re caught sending spam emails you’ll be caned in the public square.
[/ul]
[ul]Having a loud conversation on one of those ear thingie phone doohickeys in public will get you tarred and feathered…
[/ul]
these laws can be enforced once you elect me Dictator…oh, what was this thread about? 
We seem to be talking about a bunch of different issues here and people are getting them confused. Let’s keep one thing straight; going to jail and going to prison are two different things.
A lot of people have gone to jail. You can get locked up in jail for all kinds of minor offenses like traffic violations, DUI’s, smoking marijuana, fighting with your neighbours, shoplifting candy bars, etc. You might get locked up for a few hours or overnight. Or you might get locked up for thirty or even ninety days. You probably know people who’ve been to jail. Maybe you’ve been to jail.
Prison, on the other hand, is the big leagues. At a bare miniumum, you have to have been convicted of a felony. Even then it’s rare. Most people who are convicted are given fines or probation or a short jail sentence. The ones who go to prison are either career criminals who have been repeatedly convicted or are people who have committed a serious crime like rape or murder.
My freshman year of college, I was arrested for minor possession.
All told, I spent $3000 on court costs, drug classes, laywer fees, fines, car impound, and gas to travel to community service. About fifty hours of my life were taken up by the experience and my family’s opinion of me was lowered considerably for having a criminal record. They didn’t care that I smoked, they cared that I got caught.
I got the lightest sentence anyone can possibly get in Alabama, and my record was sealed under “youthful offender” laws. I could have lost financial aid and scholarships for hurting no one. This is all a far cry from the $30 ticket and “have a nice day” you might get in Denver. Did I take it like a man? Absolutely. I knew the risks and I took them anyway. But am I still pissed off for all the trouble these ignorant, puritanical laws have caused me? You betcha.
FWIW, it’s already illegal to drive while high. Making the drug legal won’t change that.
People take drugs regardless of their legality. We test crane operators for drugs in their system, but we don’t issue sobriety tests before letting them come to work. Why not? Alcohol is a significantly stronger impediment to muscle coordination than marijuana or cocaine, and its legality does not prevent it from being abused. Remember the pilots who were convicted of flying a commercial plane drunk?
It’s more dangerous to others to drink than to smoke marijuana, so I’m not understanding why you’re so freaked out about the possibility that someone might be stoned and haven’t considered what would happen if they had been drinking. I would think the chances that your doctor has been drinking is significantly higher, since alcohol is addictive.
Drug testing says nothing about your performance on the job, either. It provides an easy way for insurance companies to back out of paying. If I smoke on Sunday and come to work sober on Tuesday, I’m perfectly competent to handle my job, but still I fail a drug test.
Furthermore, there is a push from within and outside the medical indsutry to start drug testing medical professionals. bit of further reading. It’s hard to push drug testing on anyone but low skill jobs, as people with high skills are in high demand and will prefer not to have their privacy invaded.
See above. Drug tests don’t tell you if someone is affected at that moment. If we let cops and servicemen go out for a beer when off-duty, I see even less danger in letting them smoke a joint.
You’re half close. The specific amounts I’m going to cite are from memory, but the general rules are fact.
An individual is allowed to possess up to 10g of marijuana. A business may possess no more than 300g of marijuana. There are also restrictions on how much marijuana anyone is allowed to grow. Since businesses sell more than they’re allowed to keep in stock (bad legislation), most of them are technically in violation of the law. And they buy in quantities from people who aren’t technically allowed to grow as much as they do. These are minor quibbles that are ignored unless the owner pisses off someone important or some politician is trying to rank favor with America.
What the Dutch consider to be “soft drugs” are 100% legal. Marijuana, psylocybin mushrooms, mescaline, and a number of other weird “smart drugs” like salvia and guarana. But miraculously, despite how easy it is to buy marijuana in The Netherlands, American marijuana use is double theirs.
exactly. and the article from the OP mixes the two together, hence much of the confusion. Hell, an old boyfriend of mine in college went to jail for unpaid parking tickets (quite a few of them, but still, it was unpaid parking tickets).
I would agree with this if you added a disclaimer like “generally”. I worked w/a guy whose entire criminal history consisted of a 1988 single dope deal to an undercover narc, total $60 combination of cocaine and pot. He served something like 4 years inside, another year on tether and two more years on parole. And because it was two different crimes, he can’t get a set aside. Had he just sold the cop the coke, he’d have been able to get his record cleared years ago. As it is, he still has to answer “yes” I’ve been convicted of a felony. (to those who would ask for proof, I won’t link to proof 'cause that’d be linking to his name etc)
I concede that. When we’re talking about hundreds of thousands of people, there are going to be some of them who are statistical flukes. But I’ll bet that 99% of people in prison fall into one of the two categories I described.