$100,000 Cash or 4-Year College Education: Who Is Better Off?

[DrDeth]

@Manda JO

Well, the University of Chicago’s page for transfer students claims that they usually admit 75 transfer students each year, and that last year they accepted 125 applicants. Since their page on class statistics says they admitted 1220 freshman last year, it would appear that transfer students do not make up a signifigant portion of their population.

Harvard’s page on transfer eligiblility states that students I suspect that your average community college doesn’t count as “a liberal arts curriculum that is similar to Harvard’s”
This is a pretty cursory search, but it is looking like your really top tier schools are not as interested in transfer students–so it isn’t the same as Harvard–but there are good schools that will accept you.

As far as “burning out” the first year of college: do you have ANY idea what it is like to carry a load of six AP classes, participate in a sport and the musical, be on the newspaper staff, and have a part-time job at the mall? Or carry six AP classes in a language that is not your first and work full time to help pay your family’s bills? Or carry six AP classes and dance 40 hours a week? A year at a junior college is a walk in the park compared to that, and those are the sorts of schedules our top kids–the ones we push towards the very best schools–have.

1. The raw number admited mean nothing. If you want to quote some numbers, find out how many apply from other colleges and are accepted (as a %) as opposed to straight from High School. My guess is that the % of those who apply from HS and get in are less.

2. Read it again “are eligible to transfer only from a liberal arts curriculum that is similar to Harvard’s. Candidates whose education have been in vocational, professional, technical or performance programs will not ordinarily qualify.” Yes, just about every Accredited Community College has a “a liberal arts curriculum that is similar to Harvard’s”- becuase they are both accredited. Yes, you can get a “vocational, professional, technical or performance program” at a Community College, but you can also get the 1st two years of a 4 year degree there.

3. Thus your conclusions are based upon meaningless raw numbers, and a conclusion based upon ignorance of how Accreditation works.

4. Yes, I took the same thing. However, nearly every one of those “AP” (we called 'em “Honours”) students are doing all that from home. Going a 1000 miles away from the bosom of your family, into an unfamiliar new world, is a common cause of “partyism” and dropouts. What also causes dropouts is the student finding out that they really aren’t interested in higher education after all- that what they were doing is doing it all for Mom or Dad. That is just about THE most common cause of dropping out- and that you can find out just as well in a local 4 year college or even a Community college. I said nothing at all about “burn out”.

[Ruken]

@DrDeth

Yes, just about every Accredited Community College has a “a liberal arts curriculum that is similar to Harvard’s”

You may think that, but does Harvard?

• becuase they are both accredited.

This means nothing. Harvard is not obliged award credit for a course just because it comes from an accredited college. It can if it wants to, obviously. Even if it were to do so, this policy would not be general to other schools. I do not have intimate knowlege of Harvard’s polcies, but here is a quote from the Swarthmore Registrar’s site

Final validation of the work is required to receive degree credit, and depends upon evaluation of the materials of the course, including syllabus, transcript, written work, exams, indication of class hours, etc. Work in other programs, especially summer school programs, may sometimes be given less credit than work at Swarthmore, but this will depend upon the nature of the program and the work involved. Validation may include an examination, written or oral, administered at Swarthmore. All decisions are made on a case-by-case basis.

As I said before, I know people who have had lots of trouble getting credit awarded at Swarthmore for courses they took at UPenn. Another was getting emails from the registrar about how she may not be allowed to graduate due to her courses at Cooper Union not being of high enough standard (BS IMHO, and the registrar eventually caved in anyway.)

I agree with your 4th point. Shelling out $40k/yr is an expensive way to figure out that it’s not really what you want to be doing, and a lot of people do just that. Getting through those 2 years at a CC may even be more indicative of a drive to learn, because (no cite here, just trying to remember stats) CCs generally have a much higher attrition rate than top schools. It’s also quite possible to go to a CC that is better than some 4-yr colleges. I know two people who have taught at both El Paso Community College and UTEP. Both of them said their students were better at EPCC, and that they could therefore teach more and better at the CC.

[blowero]

@ralph124c

I’ve put aside $100,000 formy daughter’s college education…and I’m wondering if she would be better off investing the $10 grand instead! Suppose we assume that she invests wisely…and re-invests the income. After 30or so years…is she better off without the education?
Purely an intellectual execise…but I’m beginning to doubt the worth of a 4-year college degree!

Is “better off” strictly equivalent to “having more money”?

[DrDeth]

@Ruken

You may think that, but does Harvard?
This means nothing. Harvard is not obliged award credit for a course just because it comes from an accredited college. It can if it wants to, obviously. Even if it were to do so, this policy would not be general to other schools. .

Oh, sure- no doubt that Harvard can and does disallow some classes and credits taken from other schools- even Yale, in all likelyhood. But since Harvard and Pudunk CC are both accredited- Harvard won’t just say “Oh, we don’t accept any classes from any two year college”. They are supposed to give “full faith and credit” to others schools- but clearly not every class and credit has to transfer over 100%- however- in general most Community Colleges curriculum includes a “liberal arts curriculum that is similar to Harvard’s”, so IN GENERAL your courses and credits are transferable. But yes- in specific, on a case-by-case basis, not all classes are. In fact in some schools- even classes from the same college aren’t always usable if they are too old.

[Voyager]

MIT’s transfer page explicity says that CC students are considered and that don’t expect to graduate in 2 years even if you had 2 years of college. I’m certainly not disputing that transferring is possible - I knew several transfer students when I was there. I did not know any coming from CCs. They don’t seem to have statistics for this.

However see here

@nces

One-half of the undergraduates who start at a public 2-year institution with the intention of obtaining a bachelor’s degree and about one-fourth of those who start with an associate’s degree goal transfer to a 4-year institution within 6 years.

As I said, transfer within a state system is very achievable. (though the CA cutbacks has made this a lot harder recently.) I have not heard that it is easier to transfer into a CA 4 year college from a CC rather than an out of state or private college, but I wouldn’t be surprised if this were true.

That still doesn’t give the success rate for transfer to a top private school. And it does not say that a 2 year education at a CC is equivalent to the first two years at any college. That just isn’t so.

[Kearse]

@ralph124c

I’ve put aside $100,000 formy daughter’s college education…and I’m wondering if she would be better off investing the $10 grand instead! Suppose we assume that she invests wisely…and re-invests the income. After 30or so years…is she better off without the education?
Purely an intellectual execise…but I’m beginning to doubt the worth of a 4-year college degree!

Personally, you and/or your child would be the best suited to answer that question.

Would she invest that money and go to school anyway? ie, taking out loans or would she blow it?

[Kearse]

Investing wisely could lead to disaster as surely as unwise spending could.

You could spend hours on the argument as it tends to be circular.

Say I buy a 67 mustang and paint it cherry red. The CEO of a fortune 500 co admires the car and tells me anyone with the balls to have one of those deserves a high paying job. Unfortunately for me after I work for two days he downsizes and says all those with red cars have to go. I have to sell the car to make ends meet and eventually get divorced because my wife decides that anyone without a job really isnt a man. So I decide to get “the operation” and now I’m walking the streets as “Sally”

Was it a good investment?!!

[Obsidian]

I can give you an interesting situation I am watching in real life.

I have a roommate. I’ll call him Joe. Joe has a sister, whom I’ll call Sara. They are adopted and about 3 months apart in age. Their mother died when they were teenagers, and left them each $100,000. Joe took his money and went to college, graduating this year. He majored in criminal justice, with the intent of becoming a detective. He is not 100% sure if he’ll stay local or go with, say, the FBI, but he basically has his pick of police forces right now, from a VERY crowded field of applicants.

Sara chose not to go to college. She is still working at the mall, living off her inheritance. When it runs out, she’s not going to be qualified for much other than the mall, and will be broke to boot.

They are two examples of how young people with money and no parental input will behave. I admire Joe for looking that kind of money in the face and doing something usefull with it. I know myself well enough to know I’d have been like Sara, and to know that by now I’d be bitterly sorry.

As a side note: I was one of those AP load carrying, sports playing, drama club top of the class types. My Dad told me that if I went to a state school, he’d pay for everything in full, but if I wanted to go to someplace like Princeton I’d have to work & get loans for some of it. I chose the state school. Later, my Mom told me that they’d have paid for Princeton. It was a test of the strength of my desires and my williness to work. Lazy won. I don’t think I was atypical for a 17 year old, but I could kick myself now. Hell, even if they weren’t paying, I could kick myself for pissing the opportunity away even if I had needed to work & have loans.