Community College discussion

In My Humble Opinion
1

I hear a lot of debates about the merits of Community College. Lately, I see more and more people going. It seems to have a significant amount of advantages-

1.) Students who did poorly in HS but still want to go to college. My community college experience helped transition from HS to a 4-year institution, and I am grateful I had that stepping stone. I have many peers who took the same approach.

2.) Students who cannot afford the costs associated with 4 years at a state U or UC, whose families make too much to qualify for aid and don’t want student loans. When I was in CC my classes were only $11 a unit. I later was able to get fee waivers (even though the income bracket my mom was in didn’t qualify us for financial aid at State). My community college time was virtually free- I sold textbooks to students rather than back to the bookstore.

Some people are critical of community college, however. They believe the quality of education is inferior, and that there is a direct correlation between the cost of your education and the future benefits. While it is true that something like 50% of students in the CC system in California will not go on to get a 4-year degree, personally I feel it is a great stepping stone, and with rising education costs makes getting an education a little easier for some individuals.

2

it is a great stepping stone. And it works quite well in California where the state universities are committed to providing access to trasnfers from community colleges. For many students (and not just those in CA) it works as you say–it’s a good place to start out if your preparation, your schedule, and/or your checkbook makes a four-year college a dicier proposition.

However, there are some issues beyond the quality/rigor aspect you mentioned. Researchers find that the peer environment seems to have an effect on learning and on aspirations. They’ve found that students who attend community college are at greater risk of lessening their degree aspirations compared to their equivalent peers who start at 4-year schools. Obviously a well-motivated student isn’t going to lose sight of his goal, but it can dampen the plans of some other students and they (and their community colleges) need to be aware of that and try to address it as much as possible. There’s also a concern with engagement. Researchers have found that transfer students seem to be less deeply integrated than their “native” peers in four-year colleges, and that can effect their outcomes and their learning as well.

3

As to quality of education: I teach at a UC, a Cal State, and a community college. I do the same freshman composition course at all three. The only difference is that the community college students get it over a 15 week semester rather than a 10 week quarter.

4

I agree with this. I’m currently teaching two college composition classes, and it’s disheartening when only a few students (sometimes only one!) show up with any regularity; both for the students and the teacher. A “Why bother?” attitude is easy to fall into in such a situation.

5

I also teach at both a university and a community college. The students get me whether their tuition is higher or lower. However, at the community college, they get me with 60 fewer people in the room.

6

Similar note here: I taught at a CSU, then at the CCs. Same courses as you. There is no difference in the quality of the education, opportunities, etc. that I could discern.
The quality of the students was about the same, too.

7

I’m moving from a U to a CC because I miss working with CC students. The only real difference I’ve seen is that CC students tend to disappear with greater frequency due to lives that are often more complicated than students who live on campus.

8

Community colleges are also great for non-traditional (read: working adult) students. You can drop in, take a class, see if going back to school is right for you, and get all of your general education out of the way at a much lower price. I have found that a good number of my instructers teach at the Cal State over the hill, and I get the same education for $20 a unit instead of… what, like $60 or $80 a unit? Classes are consistenly small – between 20 and 30 students – and my college has a ton of evening, weekend, and distance courses. As a matter of fact, I’m traveling to London with my community college next week!

I also think the community college can be a great place for folks to figure out whether they’re even interested in getting a degree. Anyone who applies for a 4-year school probably wouldn’t bother unless they actually wanted a 4-year degree! Also, I don’t think there’s anything wrong with attending a community college to figure out whether going school is for you. I definitely took a few classes a while back with no intention of transferring or getting a degree – I just was interested in the topic and wanted to take a course.

9

I don’t work for a community college in the strictest sense, but the campus I work for is open-enrollment and grants associate’s degrees only. I would say the majority of our students who are in Associate of Applied Science programs have jobs in hand before they graduate. And we know that our students in Associate of Science (transfer) programs have GPAs in their junior and senior years that are equal to or better than the GPAs of students who started on the main campus.

10

My husband and I are the poster children for the California Community College system. We both dropped out of HS and did the transfer thing - I just (within the past few hours - I am now on Margarita Standard Time) finished my junior year; he graduated in '04 and is entering his 3rd year of a 4 year law program.

The nice thing is, when I get my BA from UCLA, it will say, “UCLA”, not “AVC and UCLA”. When I transfered my GPA was set to zero - how nice is that?

I have the mentioned problems in integration with campus as a transfer student, but this also has a lot to do with being 26 and married and living 75 miles away. Mileage varies I’m sure among transfers. I do hear smack talk on occasion from other students about transfers, but AFAICT professors seem to like us better - I usually hear that transfers are more on the ball. There is a HUGE network though for us non-trads; I’ve always been amazed at how much support has been available. The people that work with non-trads seem especially fond of us as well; my advisor bills herself as the Mom of the non-trads at UCLA. I love her dearly.

I get along with most of the other students - I’m not so much older that I stick out a lot, but sometimes I let “husband” slip out in conversation on accident and get greeted by startled expressions.

My CC has been a lifesaver for me. My husband and I plan on establishing a scholarship for transfers when we’re more settled. I owe my junior institution a lot, and many of the professors there have been more accessible and more engaged with students than profs at UCLA. Usually they are more concerned about their research than students, although my department chair seems to be an exception to the rule. I owe quite a few profs at my CC my deepest gratitude, however.

Oh and the scholarships available to transfers are sweet, too. Between several I received, I’m not paying a dime for my education. And since I wasn’t on any fast-track to graduation, I could screw around for a few years to figure out what I wanted to do - I think I switched majors 3 or more times. In fact I think they expect me to come back to finish my AS in Biology, since they seem to have it listed as a goal on my transcript still. Ha.

Wow that was long winded, sorry about that. Clearly though, I’m a fan, at least insofar as the system has worked for me. I do get discouraged when I see my old CC classmates still floundering around, but there is a cadre of us that have put it to damn good use.

11

I went to CC for two years, and then transferred to a Big 10 school. I think there are pros and cons of doing it this way. The reason I did was because I blew off high school, and didn’t get into the school of my choice. So, I decided to go to CC to see if I could remedy the situation. For this, it was great. Since I didn’t want to lose credits in transferring, I contacted the University I wanted to go to, and they sent a list of classes that qualified as required classes for my major. I worked pretty hard, got decent grades, and was accepted…and every single hour I took transferred. And I saved a ton of money.

On the other hand, I only spent 2 years at my eventual alma mater. My husband also went there, although we met years later. He and my other friends & family who went there got a much richer social experience than I did, going in as freshmen. I regret this part of it, but it was my own fault for goofing off in HS.

12

I went from Napa Valley CC to UC Davis in the 1980’s. In the engineering program at the CC, most of the students were committed to their degree. At the time, the UCD engineering program was ‘impacted’ and only accepting students that had just graduated from a California High School or a California Community College.

I had graduated from a California High School, but had attended college for a year out of state, so I did not qualify for admission. The CC was a direct feed-in. Some of the students there were attending in order to boost their UC gpa. UC does not use grades from other institutions in their gpa, so the engineering wonks would take all the general ed classes they needed, but might get B’s in, at the CC. Then they could concentrate on their major classes, where they were more confident of getting A’s, at the UC.

I didn’t keep in contact with anyone from the CC, so I don’t know how well that worked. I’m guessing that for some of them it worked quite well. As to motivation, my advice would be to get into a major program that is set up to feed into the UC. You’ll be more likely to be surrounded by motivated students. There was no problem with no-shows in the engineering classes at Napa. In fact there were a group of students who regularly car pooled from Solano CC because they didn’t have all of the engineering classes available there.

I think CC’s are a great community resource. You just have to check to be sure that it has what you need to get out of it. I was going to Napa instead of Solano, which was closer to where I lived, because admissions at UCD had recommended it. (Also, they had better child care.)

13

Oh yeah, I forgot to add that I started at a CC, transferred to a Top 10 U, went to a prestigious grad program, etc. I also regret losing out on the traditional college experience, but I didn’t go to CC until I was 28.

14

I went to a CC and got three AA’s. I then went to a 4-year school to finish the Bachelor’s.

Without exception, the classes at the CC were more comprehensive, harder, and, overall, just better.

Luckily, my employer was paying for the 4-year school. I sure wouldn’t have paid for it.

15

I left the choice up to my children.
My son went 2 years CC and transfered to a Cal State U. He enjoyed his time at the CC and was challenged in the classes. As Queen Bruin said he degree says California State University not 1/2 CSU +1/2 CC. His reason? Money. CC cost less. He paid for almost all of his education himself. Did I mention I am very proud of him? :smiley:

My daughter chose to go the 4 year route at Cal Poly. She will graduate winter quarter, and she is talking about a masters.

Which one was/ is better? Beats me, I think they are about equal.

16

You can usually transfer without an associates, if you don’t want to miss out on that extra year at your 4-year college.

17

That’s true…the 4-year schools don’t care so much about an AA degree, they care that you have taken classes that count towards their requirements (which may or may not be different from the AA requirements). As I explained briefly, the university I wanted to go to has a list of all the freshman/sophomore requirments for each major, and which classes at my CC fulfilled that requirement. (Of course, I went to our state university, which probably gets a lot of transfers from my CC…if I went somewhere else, it probably wouldn’t have been that easy.) If you want to transfer after only one year, there’s no reason not to.

18

I didn’t go to a CC but now I wish I did instead of just going to the local 4 year school. When I graduated high school, I had decent but not spectacular grades. I had enough AP credit that I could’ve done an associates degree in a year. I could’ve used that extra year to decide what I really wanted to do in college and save up some money so I could go to school a little farther away from home. Oh well, what’s done is done.

19

You DO have to be cautious however. Not everything may count - particularly if you are heading toward engineering requirements. If staying instate - from the state CC to the stat university, most states will have a map between their CC programs and their BA programs - so you know what you need to take at the four year school and what you can take at the cheaper CC. I know a number of people who ended up on the five year plus program - having taken the wrong CC courses. Also, in Minnesota, the difference between the Twin Cities CCs and the UofMN courses in terms of work, competition, and curving can be fairly drastic (depending on the program) and you can establish sloppy study skills. Finally, not all four year schools have a lot of room for transfer students, so you need to be aware that your first choice four year school may still not accept you after two years.

But they CAN offer good educations, low prices, flexible schedules and the opportunity to transfer.

20

I’m an adjunct instructor for the local junior college (we don’t call it a community college because we recruit students and athletes from all over the world) and I’d put our curriculum, faculty, and overall college experience up against any four-year school. Our faculty members are regularly published in peer-reviewed journals, our residence halls are regularly updated (we’re in the middle of a multi-million-dollar fund-raising effort for the most ambitious upgrade in 20 years), our alumni include a former Denver mayor, two former U.S. Representatives, a handful of state legislators, and a host of business and agricultural leaders, mostly in the Rocky Mountain West. And our athletes are among some of the best freshmen and sophomores in the nation.