Moved to the Game Room.
Colibri
General Questions Moderator
It’s sad that doping in sport (which, I agree, is still too widespread) seems to have caused some people to jump to the conclusion that if you win, you must be cheating. If I’m ever on trial, I hope none of you guys is on the jury. Whatever happened to innocent until proven guilty?
Never applied to anything not related to a criminal trial. People are free to impugn on the moral character of anyone they please until that person elects to take offense.
It’s still a deplorable habit, of course, and the rationalizations for the [del]slander[/del] libel in this thread seems both specious and far-fetched. But the presumption of innocence isn’t an appropriate rebuttal.
Not really a non-sequitor. Aerobic exercise, that depends on oxygen for energy, is longer-duration exercise than anaerobic. This burns a great deal more calories, and in turn, muscle mass, than anaerobic exercise. Someone consistently engaging in aerobic exercise will have a very difficult (if not impossible) time adding significant muscle mass to their frame. That’s why a distance runner will be extremely lean, even skinny; while a sprinter will be more muscular and heavier (without addressing P.E.D.s).
Is this really true? I thought your body only burns muscle mass if it isn’t getting enough energy or protein, and “damage” done to muscles while exercising prompts your body to build more muscle, or at the very least maintain it (losing muscle would seem counterproductive, less muscle can’t work as hard or for as long with the same load). If so, then does this mean one should avoid aerobic exercise if they want to put on muscle or build muscle faster (it is recommended to do both, but just lifting weights can get your heart rate and breathing way up, and minimal rest periods will keep them high for the whole time).
Of course it’s true. Why do you think every single marathon runner you’ve ever seen in your entire life looks like a bean pole? (hint: it isn’t from a lack of calories)
Exercise is damage to the muscles. It’s the response to that damage that builds muscle. It’s why recuperation is so vital, and so important not to overlook.
And YES, if you are someone who struggles to put on muscle, a hardgainer, limit your cardio if you are trying to put on muscle. Or even if you aren’t a hardgainer, if you aren’t building muscle at the rate you are satisfied with (and you are being realistic) and your calorie intake is right, cut back on your cardio while stepping up on your lifting (like you said, you can work some pretty intense cardio into your lifting sessions).
Approximately 5% of calories during aerobic exercise comes from protein stores(muscle). This can increase to as much as 15% when near glycogen depletion.
Over time, again and again, chronically eating up this much muscle puts you in a muscle-mass deficit that is impossible to just eat/lift your way out of and continue running.
Some of the best ultra-marathoners were quite heavy. A champion ultra-marathoner from Minnesota about 30 years ago was quite heavy. (I forgot his name.) Some of the best marathoners in the past were heavy. I think the name of one was Randy Thomas, but I’m not sure of the name. It has been primarily in recent years, when the Africans began to race, that the elite are now thin.
I just reject this concept Philster is running. (pun intended) Of course PED’s are an issue… (fascinating look at it historic wise in David Maraniss’ book on the 1960 Olympics)
So every amazing thing we witness in the Olympic from here on in is the result of PED’s> Just seems like a sloppy wayof thinking… And what’s with the “Your kids are on drugs” repeition??
People don’t need drug tests to come back positive to know someone is on drugs. Ever see/smell someone that was high from smoking pot? Don’t need a drug test.
I’ve seen kids on coke, meth and pot… and everyone knew (without a drug test) but the parents, who were far from being objective about their own kids; they just never recognized what was really going on. People love celebs and athletes… and this taints their ability to be objective.
Athletes on drugs are spotted daily by people who know the tell-tale signs of those drugs. Again, people who know what the drugs do can name the cycle, the drugs, etc.
So, yeah… Bolt’s coach is a chemist… A Balko drug genius. Proves nothing. I know.
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I find that disturbing, almost enough that I want to stop my daily walk/run (about 45 minutes on average, running half the distance), but then I wouldn’t get enough exercise (30 minutes a day) according to recommendations, unless I did more weightlifting. Or do you need to go on for a longer time; I also drink a glass of milk before I go out and eat breakfast afterwards (including more protein), so my body isn’t running on empty (milk has sugars and protein in it, including fast and slow absorbed). Not that I have had any problem maintaining/building muscle.
When you do your cardio makes a difference as well. If you do your weightlifting first and then (immediately) go to your cardio, you will burn primarily fat as your fuel source (as long as you keep the intensity low-to-moderate and don’t go too long, say no more than 30-45 min). This is because glycogen is what your body uses first and primarily. When you start with weightlifting (which is what you want to focus on since muscle-building is what you are after) you use up the glycogen stores for your fuel. By the time you get to your cardio, your glycogen stores are empty and your body moves on to it’s fat stores for it’s primary* fuel source. Most people do cardio with the intention of burning fat, yet only end up burning their glycogen stores. Doing it after weights takes care of this.
*There is always going to be some amount of muscle mass used for energy when doing cardio; even when glycogen stores are full. The key is knowing which source the body is using for it’s primary energy source.
This is false, unless you’re talking about 60+ minute bouts of aerobic exercise, or running on an empty stomach. You burn glycogen for about the first 20 minutes, then mostly fat from 20-60 minutes. At the 60 minute mark your body starts producing cortisol which helps catalyze conversion of muscle to glucose.
The reason distance runners are less muscular than weight lifters is the same reason weight lifters are poor distance runners. We perform according to how we train. And it is perfectly possible to split the difference as well… I can run a 10K in 45 minutes and I have a well developed upper body as well. I could be bigger or I could be faster if I budgeted my time and energy differently, but I’m satisfied where I am.
Muscle is always being burned during bouts of aerobic exercise; it’s simply less of a fuel source earlier on ( very little for the first 20 and slightly more for the next 40-45 min.)
This page (among others) seems to strongly disagree with you, at least in most cases, the exceptions being people with very low body fat (and no meal beforehand) or insufficient protein intake; there is also a reference to a study that showed muscle loss - but only in the legs due to overtraining (and they were running 43 miles/6 hours a day for 64 days).
The composition of the body’s energy source is never 100% one thing or another; is always a mixture of two or more sources. Once glycogen is depleted, fat will become the primary fuel source, but the level of muscle mass being used for energy will also increase as well. Chronically skinny individuals will have a greater percentage of this be muscle.
It’s true that cortisol is always circulating in the human body, even while you sleep. But as any significant fuel source… I’m sorry, no. Aerobic exercise doesn’t stimulate any significant muscle breakdown, certainly not comparable to strength training, until you’ve been doing it for about an hour (depending on intensity).
There are about a billion links out there on this subject, feel free to read up.
Key word here “significant”.