You do understand that gross cash farm income is gross before costs, taxes and expenses?
For Most, On-Farm Household Income Remains Negative
You would be surprised how many farms only survive because of off-farm jobs.
I have a sense of humor. You’re not Don Rickles.
Don’t insult my friends and family with a stupid crack that only shows you’re the ignorant one.
I apologize. It was not meant to be taken seriously.
The biggest current farmer in my extended family grows corn and soy, but also sells farm insurance and retails some farm equipment to other farmers.
Mind you, he’s got nine kids so some of his costs are his own damn fault.
Of course. And that’s why USDA doesn’t even classify a farm as a “farm business” unless they have GCFI above $350k (our farm does not qualify.) Because these on-average nonviable businesses don’t produce enough food to be significant but they skew the statistics out of sheer numbers.
Farm businesses, the ones that grow 90% of the farm sector’s production value, have an average income of like $140k.
…which is a major reason why we should be protecting their interests as small farmers. A relatively small number of people in non-farm sectors are responsible for a disproportionate amount of wealth and GDP revenue, which is an argument for supporting the interests of the little guy, not cutting aid or programs that help them help themselves.
I have absolutely no problem with farm subsidies in tandem with free trade, which is what we’ve been doing for decades. Granted, there are unintended consequences, like creating excessively cheap product that can harm growers in other countries like Mexico, thereby increasing the demand for illegal immigration here. But those are problems that can be worked out if we create a social and political environment in which we don’t automatically assume the worst of everyone’s intentions.
The problem is, in 2018, we absolutely assume the worst intentions of ‘the other’. We’re far better off with the politics of cooperation, but that’s not the political system we have now. Tariffs actually exacerbate this problem because it marks a transition from a world economic system in which countries both compete and cooperate with each other…to a world in which there is no cooperation, only competition. It starts with economic warfare. It ends with something far worse. History teaches us that.
Inefficient businesses should go out of business. It’s not like we depend on the little guy to keep ourselves fed. And exisiting programs we’re discussing do little to help the “little guy” anyway. And being a little guy is no justification for taking money from me and you and buying his peanuts because he can’t produce them and make money at the market rate. Just stop growing peanuts.
Some of that land will go out of production (an environmental plus). Some of it will be consolidated into other, more efficient businesses (an economic plus), and some of it will be simply replaced by new farmers, who will be a mixed bag wrt how good they are at their jobs.
I am serious , Agricultural price supports are in a class of their own because the alternative is starvation and chaos. The USSR fell because the collective farms could not feed the population.
seriously, More than half the U.S. grain and nearly 40 percent of world grain is being fed to livestock rather than being consumed directly by humans
Seriously, eliminating subsidies of largest producers of commodities like corn, soybeans, wheat, cotton, and rice then would result in much higher prices for chickens, pork, beef, turkeys, milk, cheese, eggs, and T-shirts. commodities whose prices are affected by world supply.
Seriously, small farms receive a subsidy indirectly when purchasing grain feed stocks in the upstream supply chain. Your farm operation may suffer from higher costs of production other farms most certainly will.
Seriously, what does depreciation tax deduction on capital equipment have to do with price supports. An irrelevant factoid.
China Tells Farmers To Grow More Soybeans Amid Trade Fight With U.S.
It was China’s choice to disrupt their food supply. Trump did not institute tariffs on food stuffs from China.
China is retaliating stupidly. But the farmer interviewed for the NPR article Said she would grow soybeans “If they give me a better subsidy”.
NB: All countries in the world subsidize farming except for New Zealand.
The serious lesson here is Foreign governments can tell their farmers to grow whatever. These edicts will cause an increase in product supply which will result in decrease of price given a constant demand. The price decrease may result in US farmers financial loss as production expenses exceed income from sales. Multiple year finacial losses will result in insolvency of the farm and a reduction in the US food supply.
I failed to list the food stamp subsidy and the low or non-existence of state sales tax on food. All subsidies whether direct or indirect for food keeps the family food budget low and the the disposable family income high which can be spent on other products. I am serious about this.
Yes, I am " serious of questionably relevant* factoids" in your first sentence.
Yes there will be a red-hot bumper crop this year in Uzbekistan which will upset the global market.
I believe I have answered all your question and am surprised you did not know the answers already, you being a farmer and all.
You are rather myopic thinking all of the 2.1 million farms are like yours. or maybe you are just toeing the party line (drank the kool-aid) in these straight dope (oxymoron) environs.
You assume that little farmer is an Inefficient business.
Some of that land will go out of production and the smart land owner will take advantage of the Conservation reserve program(CRP) a subsidy!
https://www.fsa.usda.gov/programs-and-services/conservation-programs/conservation-reserve-program/
It is a gross generalization for you to say “Some of it will be consolidated into other, more efficient businesses”
There is 922 million acres in US farmland. Consolidation may result in less than .01% being converted in our lifetime.
“His peanuts” refers to POTUS Jimmy Carter, a democrat who made his fortune from a highly subsidized and tariffed peanut farm product. The subsidies and tariffs existed since the 1930’s.
You stated that you are a farmer and I assume you have a little farm, you wasting your time on this board but we depend on the products you harvest and thank you for that so get back to work the suns was up at the time of your post unless your farm is in HI or AK!
Reading all your posts and given the information in this post, your farms average income is less than $140K and under the current subsidy program your farm does not qualify.
Well prior to 2014 farm bill your farm would have qualified but due to all this squawking against subsidies it no longer does. Me thinks you pissed on your shoe.
I would advise you join the Republicans to protect US manufacturing, increase employment and opportunity and reduce the earned income and other tax credits to MAGA!
As soon as the Republicans start doing those things, we’ll consider joining them. Meanwhile, the manufacturing sector has already taken a massive hit due to the trade sanctions and jobs are being lost. Perhaps you should empty the piss out of your own shoes first.
Why didn’t you tell us you were a Putin Republican right from the beginning. Interesting how you point out the failure of the Soviet collective system while advocating for it with American farmers. Or is it that you just prefer that system under private oligarchic control? And then in the end your argument boils down to removing tax breaks that go directly to people while giving more welfare to the agricultural industry to guarantee their profits.
You are WRONG!
Soviet collective system collapsed
while American farm subsidy system has served well for 100 years.
You are WRONG!
I never advocated for more welfare for the agricultural industry
I merely advocate for parity with individual subsidies
https://www.efile.com/tax-credit/federal-tax-credits/
and I have promoted food price stability when the farm product is subject to world fluctuations in crop yields either due to weather or edict by the controlling governments.
This is what Trump is getting at with respect to other industries where the controlling governments subsidize products to undercut the US product.
Obama did it when he levied a tariff on Chinese dumping of solar cells.
What is good for the goose is good for the gander. (PS that is a farm metaphor)
The big difference is that Obama’s action pandered to his constituency while Trump is pandering to all of America. MAGA!
The tax credits require that the tax payer purchase a qualifying product so the benefit is residual and minuscule while the bulk of the credit benefits the industry.
You are WRONG there too.
please try to keep up!
I am beginning to believe the fist line of this song is true for you toward me
Those that are tripolar should consult a doctor.
Obama’s tariff on Chinese dumping of solar cells was an abject failure and pretty much killed an entire US industry. Didn’t your mom warn you about when your Friends jump off a bridge.
So you are the spokesperson for this Hood, Bro. Was the "We’ll " meant to intimidate me?
cite please! " the manufacturing sector has already taken a massive hit due to the trade sanctions"
Thanks for the gyrations.
I will cite for you!
This is the unemployment propaganda:
http://time.com/money/5322347/trump-tariffs-jobs/
and there other media spewing the same crap!
“The iconically American motorcycle manufacturer Harley-Davidson also said on Monday it was moving some production operations overseas. And word spread that a Missouri nail manufacturer named Mid-Continent Nail just laid off 60 workers and could be out of business by the end of the summer.”
Mid-Continent Nail petitioned for protection from Chinese dumping in 2013 and was denied by Obama presidential nominees.
https://www.usitc.gov/publications/701_731/pub4442.pdf
Harley-Davidson needed to open manufacturing in Europe and has been doing it for years!
TIME is synonym for propaganda!
Sure there is going to be reshuffling of jobs. There is insufficient data to determine if there will be net gain or loss. Everything reported to date is chicken little the sky is falling crap which the dopers have swallowed hook, line, and sinker (PS. an aquaculture metaphor so I am not accused of a hijack)!
Your syntax is very much like that of a Russian speaking English.
I could not expect anything less than failure for any of Obama’s actions.
Well now with Trump’s pro business policies solar panel manufacturing is on come back.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-jinkosolar-florida-factory/chinas-jinko-to-produce-solar-panels-in-florida-by-fourth-quarter-despite-tariffs-idUSKBN1JF34P
Jump off the bridge naked, the skinny dipping is fine!
Did you go to collage to know that?
Seems when you can’t criticize the message then you at least can criticize the messenger.
Superficial
мелкий поверхностный пустой
oberflächlich
Shallow
De Nada
Спасибо
Danke schön
Merci
Thank You
As a matter of fact I did not go to college because I’ve never needed someone tell me how to learn or think, and I know people from all over the world and can readily tell that English is not your first language. You are doing a terrible job presenting obvious propaganda that has little to with this discussion and the only consistent part of it is that you are promoting a socialist agenda for farmers and saying farms are not viable businesses. If you went to college you obviously didn’t study history because 100 years ago the US agricultural industry was on the verge of collapse, one of the precursors of the Great Depression.
Which Franklin D. Roosevelt corrected with the new deal.
So it was 80 years ago, jesh!
English is not the language I usually use, I talk mostly c#, PHP, Perl, C, C++, PLC ladder logic, BASH, Ruby, Python, calculus/differential equations, communications systems/digital circuits design, and integrated circuit/solid state physics design.
I went to 18 schools in 12 years of grammar school, been in all the US states, been in all the Canadian provinces, lived and worked in US, Canada, S. Korea, Holland, and New Zealand.
I have a Bachelor of Science degree in Electrical Engineering and am holder of 3 patents.
I can talk using most of the English phonology found in the US.
College is not about " how to learn or think" it is about actually gaining a marketable skill.
I recommend you take a debate class or two while you are at the task of bettering yourself or go hoe the cotton!