1968 Mustang

Just looking for some general advice.

I live in Chicago, but I’m going to be working in Madison, WI for awhile - about 160 miles door to door. My friend wants to sell me his 1968 Mustang Convertable for $7,000.

The car would go up to Madison on Monday, putter around Madison (very low miles in-city). I could also get a ride in my girlfriend’s car if the weather was particularily foul. So, I would kind of depend on this car, but not 100% - my gf and I work the same place and keep the same schedule, so car trouble wouldn’t be catastrophic.

More specs on the car: gorgeous red convertable, well-maintained. 100K miles, engine was rebuilt at 96K miles, not sure if the automatic transmission was rebuilt at that time. My friend (who I have a lot of trust in) says it runs well, but I haven’t had the chance to see it for myself (I will definately have a mechanic check it out if it gets that far).

Bottom line, I would love to own this car, but I’m scared that buying it would come back and bite me in the ass. Just looking for some input from others that have had experience with vintage cars like this and what I can expect. Also, if you have any opinion on the asking price, let me know.

Thanks!

Check the body work closely. Salted roads tend to rust out wheelwells and such. Other than that, it sounds like a beauty. Does your friend have maintainence records?

FWIW, my friend had a '68 convertable that must have been stolen 3 or 4 times. She always got it back, people were just joyriding in it. Kelly Blue Book doesn’t have online numbers on vehicles over 21 years old, so I have no idea if the asking price is fair.

Fucking TAKE it! Our '67 was worth three times that before my husband put any work into it.

I think Boo Boo Foo has one, IIRC. But he’s down yonder and posts at night. Maybe he’ll drop by later.

One thing to consider - Madison in the winter has really nasty roads. The side streets are covered with chunky ice and are a pain to drive on in a new car with cusiony suspension. You might get tired of being jostled around from Dec through Mar. Lots of salt on the roads, too. You’ll have to keep it washed.

Yeah, that’s part of what I’m afraid of. I’ve driven a '93 Mustang in the snow in Virginia, and it was definately … interesting.

(sigh) So pretty, though.

Do you know much about cars and working on them? Unless it has been rebuilt recently, there are a lot of 30 year old parts on the thing., and they will go bad and need to be fixed. Most of them will probably be easy to fix if you know much about cars, but if you don’t you might have a lot of visits to the garage which will get expensive.

Which engine does it have, that has a lot to do with it’s worth.

FWIW, when buying a vintage like this, you have to ask yourself, are you working on it because you want to or because you have to?

wolfman, in the incredibly cluttered OP, I stated that the engine was rebuilt at 96,000 miles, so it’s relatively new.

I pondered a lot last night, and here’s what I came up with:

  • It’s friggin cold in this area for many month out of the year. Having ridden in Jeeps and other convertables in the winter, I know this car would be miserable on cold days.
  • The engine is newly rebuilt, but as far as I know it’s still running the original automatic transmission with 100,000 miles on it. That worries me.
  • I’ve had a 90’s Mustang before, and even with new tires and weight in the trunk, driving in the snow and on ice is frightening. I can’t imagine that a much older model (with older suspension, 4 wheel drum breaks, etc) would be better.

What was killing me was that I was weighing practical issues against a sweet ride. But when I came up with the list above, I realized that I would probably drive it very little. And since this would be my only car, I don’t see the point in buying it and then not driving.

I’m still sad, though. Well, now I have a reason to look forward to my mid-life crisis. :wink:

Thanks for all the input! Love you guys.

I’d suggest getting a really good set of snows for the winter, and learn how to properly warm that baby up for driving in the cold. I had a 69 Buick Riviera for a number of years and drove it in the winter, it’s doable, but you have to respect the fact that cars weren’t as user friendly then. Mine also had a leak which caused frost INSIDE the windshield, this being a convertable, I’d expect the same…

Wash it often, especially after driving on salted roads.

Won’t be convenient, but it shouldn’t be a disasterous mess either. I’d love to have a car like that :envy:

Yeah, that would be so nice to have in California. You could try it out & if needed you could easily resell it on Ebay.com

One of the$e? :

1968 CALIFORNIA SPECIAL HISTORY
http://www.californiaspecial.com/history.htm

Check www.collectorcartraderonline.com for similar years/models to get a good idea of what its worth.

It won’t ever lose value if you take any kind of care of it.

I say go for it! (but then I have $7k lying around, too! :wink: )


She told me she loved me like a brother. She was from Arkansas, hence the Joy!

Thank you Lamar - I’m baaaaaackkkk! :smiley:

Actually, my particular Mustang is the famous 1966 Shelby GT350 Fastback - however, being the perfectionsit old tart that I am - since the car arrived I’ve been doing truckloads and truckloads of online research into finding our every thing you could possibly want to know about classic Mustangs (and I guess this applies for most American muscle cars of the era).

OK, first things first… here are my favourite websites for buying everything (and I mean absolutely EVERYTHING) you could possibly wish to buy for a classic Mustang.

(1) www.californiamustang.com

(2) www.totalcontrolproducts.com

(3) www.sandersonsales.com

Now the first one is an online store which sells every single knob, dash bezel, lever, rubber weatherstrip, chrome, headliner, carpet, seat foam, door panel, you name it - they sell it all - brand new… including every body panel imaginable.

The 2nd website features the most technologically state of the art suspension and steering systems which money can buy. Effectively, you can turn your 38 year olf Mustang into a modern Porsche, handling wise - and believe me - old Mustangs were pretty crude - even the Shelby’s. But more about that in a minute.

The 3rd website is merely a reference website which links you to the sales point for the new Shelby GT500E (the E is named after Eleanor in the film “Gone in 60 Seconds”) It’s an interesting website because Caroll Shelby is involved and they take 67 and 68 Fastbacks and strip 'em to total raw metal shell and then build the cars brand new from scratch with totally brand new componetry - including the TPC chassis and suspension products mentioned above. It’s a very interesting website. Yes, that’s right, for just 80-120K in US dollars you can buy a perfect Eleanor just like in the movie - and it’s a totally wicked car believe me. (But I personally prefer the shape and weight of my 1966 fastback myself).

Now… getting back to your convertible? OK, be aware… they twist… they twist dreadfully actually. And further, as they get older more and more tiny stress cracks manifest themselves in key points under the car around the chassis suspension arms and places like that. I would STRONGLY recommend spending the $300 on TPC’s convertible underbody roll cage chassis stiffener. Believe me when I say this, it will prolong the life of your car’s shell by 20 years or more. It’s a 2" specially designed tubular chassis stiffener which is welded onto the underneath of your floor plan. It reduces chassis flex by orders of magnitude - and on a convertible - man it’s totally paramount.

Next… look, I don’t know how to discretely say this without offending my dear American friends but… ummmm… the steering and suspension systems used on 60’s Mustangs was ummm… pretty fucking crude folks! I mean sorry… I can’t lie about this, but it was, you know? The control arms and shock towers all were made out of pretty thin stamped metal and the mounting points used rubber bushings. As the years go by it’s a suspension system which becomes incredibly fatigued with stress cracks and metal deflection and sloppiness and creakiness.

It’s just a fact of life, if you’re going to own a classic Mustang you simply have to accept that you’re going to need to replace the suspension bits and pieces.

Now there are 3 levels you can go about this…

Level One - bare minimum - about $2,500

Level Two - intermediate - about $4,500

Level Three - total effort - about $12000

On Level One you replace all original parts with total replicas but new - excluding the rubber bushings. You should replace those with polyurethane.

On Level Two you replace all original parts with modern technology versions of the originals including modern shocks and new steering components.

On Level Three you go the whole hog. Total fit out with 13" disk rotors and 17" wheels, modern Power Steering rack and pinion, titanium tubular coil over shock suspension and chassis stiffening and the coil over shock rear suspension system. You’re getting close to GT500E technology by this stage.

Anyways, my point is this… it’s an old car, OK? THey’re as famous and as sexy as any car in history but don’t let anyone tell you that they somehow stay immacualte all by themselves. Nothing could be further from the truth. They have lots of parts which get old and they bend and they get corroded and they get very, very sloppy. A 1968 convertible Mustang also has something else going against it… the steering used an exceedigly crude worm ball steering system with Pitman arms… very complex and very prone to getting totally vague and sloppy.

All of these things need to be considered. I’m lucky, my GT350 is the classic of classic - Scarlett Red with twin white Le Mans stripes with matching colour coded interior - so it’s worth doing the work on. My goal is to have a magnifecent classic car with the best of modern technology and that’s because I don’t give a shit about keeping it original - I want the fucker to handle like a go-kart, and you can achieve that, but you need to be aware of the effort and the costs.

The rule of thumb is this - unless someone can show you at least $15,000 of receipts in the last 3 years on a classic Mustang, you can safely assume you’ll need to spend that money yourself. The simple truth is that they’re an old car which suffers from metal fatigue. And convertibles are the most prone of the lot.

I have a '66 Mustang as a second car, and I live in the deep South and therefore really don’t know how to drive in winter weather. That being said, I’d be afraid to drive it on ice, even with weight in the trunk. That also being said, buy it. I love my car, -love- it. But. Find a mechanic that specializes in classic Mustangs, though, and develop a close relationship. Consider the fact that this car will obviously cost you a lot more maintenance than a new car, and that it is also not as safe. Problems with the car that wouldn’t be life threatening in a new car may kill you in this one. Consider converting the brakes at least, unless you’re used to driving on drum brakes.

The one reason I’d hesitate to buy it is that it’s a Northern car. Are you SURE it’s rust free? Absolutely sure? Poked around in the trunk, spent some time with a magnet or whatever, absolutely certain?

Also, recall that the heating does blow pretty hot air, but out of relatively few vents and that convertible top is verrry drafty. Are you prepared to never be warm in your car in winter?

But if you love the car, buy it. There’s really nothing like driving a car you really, really love to drive. When else are you going to have one? When you’re old, you won’t want the trouble.

Boo Boo Foo, thanks for all the good info. I suspected that the steering and suspension could be tricky - it sounds like it would be hard to find somebody who even knew how to align it properly. And I have no idea really what’s been done to this car - all I’ve heard is that some guy bought it to work on with his kid - father/son project. There is no record of what they did to the car.

When the kid turned 16, he decided he didn’t really want it, and my friend bought it. It’s been sitting in a garage in Ohio for years - my friend’s brother takes it out of the garage once a month and runs it around. My friend rebuilt the engine 4000 miles ago.

Zsofia - if I lived in Florida or Mississippi, this thread would have been “See pictures of my 68 Mustang!” I knew how to drive my rear-wheel 93 Mustang, but it’s still incredibly difficult to drive it in ice and snow.

Zsofia: “There’s really nothing like driving a car you really, really love to drive.” I would tend to agree with this, except that this is really not the right time in my life for this. I need a relatively cheap, reliable car. I live in a high-rise in Chicago - I don’t have any way of working on the car myself. I live in an area that’s cold and snowy more than half the year - I’ll be inflicted with severe cold in an old convertible, and subjecting the poor thing to salted roads and cold temperatures.

Cheesesteak: “Mine also had a leak which caused frost INSIDE the windshield, this being a convertable, I’d expect the same…” That’s messed up! I guess you could get an ice scraper for inside the car…

I’ll finish out with Zsofia: “When else are you going to have one? When you’re old, you won’t want the trouble.”

I don’t agree. I would love to fix a car up like this on my own someday - when I have a big garage, a small child that will fit into the hard-to-reach areas of the engine compartment, etc. If I buy it now, I’ll be paying somebody else to fix it for me.

As you may be able to tell, I’ve pretty much decided against getting it. Sorry if this seems to have turned into a “I don’t want to buy the car and you can’t make me!” thread, but I really hadn’t made up my mind when I originally posted, and now I’ve firmly decided against. Just a fair warning that I don’t think I can be swayed the other way, but I’m happy to talk about more.

If the car is in good condition it sounds like a good deal.

I’m have a 1962 Studebaker and my fiancee lives 35 miles away, a little less half as far as your going to drive. I drive to her house twice a week, and I’m never afraid to drive it. Of course it rarely snows here, (twice in ten years, IIRC), and the roads don’t ice. But if you drive carfully you can drive in snow, although personally I would never drive a classic car in the winter if the roads are salted.

My engine was overhauled about 12K miles ago and runs great. FWIW, the Stude (Borg-Warner) tranny has about 140K miles on it, never been out of the car, and is very similar to those used in the early-to-mid 60s Fords. I don’t know about the mid-to-late 60s Fords though. The Stude suspension is even more primative than the Mustang, but I think it’s also much more durable. It has king-pins and bushings VS ball-joints and while the bushings wear out, everything else was built to last. It’s easy to work on (with the factory shop manual) and it’s easy to find mechanical and electrical parts and I’m sure it would be the same for the Mustang. Body parts are available but sometimes more a search is necessary. I think if you drive a classic you have to be able to work on it, or have a lot of loot to pay to have the work done.

IMHO, I wouldn’t buy the car to use it for transportation. I’d buy a Honda or something to drive the drive, and drive the Mustang for fun and pleasure.

That’s what it’s come down to. I can’t afford two cars, so I have to go for one that will be safe and comfortable for now.

I was also concerned with the fact that it had an automatic transmission with 100,000+ miles on it, but it sounds like that’s the least of my problems. Regardless, if the transmission fails, that’s a hella hard thing to fix, certainly nothing I could ever do myself. I imagine it would come down to replacing it with a professionally rebuilt 68 transmission, but I have no idea what that would run.

No experience with Mustangs, but I like old cars. My take: Remember that people used these cars every day when they were new. They worked perfectly well back then. So if your Mustang is in good condition, it should be a serviceable ride. But…

My first car was a 1966 MGB roadster. My mom bought it new and picked it up from the dock. By the time I got it, it didn’t run and was a bit scruffy. I had the engine rebuilt and it was fine mechanically, but there were other problems that people don’t always think about. For one thing, the new ragtop did not fit especially well. Another annoying problem that developed was that the windscreen leaked. Whenever it rained, water would pour on my left leg. I took to wearing a garbage bag on my leg in wet weather. Old rubber does not seal well!

This was my primary car for a long time. I eventually ended up with three MGBs (the '66 and two '77s) and usually two of them were operational at any given time. Had I fixed everything that was wrong with the '66, it would have been fine. Being a kid though, I didn’t know that leaks and whatnot could be fixed by the judicious use of cash. And besides, it worked well enough. But it had a nasty habit of developing oil leaks and electrical problems (“Lucas – Prince of Darkness”).

I’m having another '66 MGB roadster restored (complete take-it-completely-apart-and-restore-it-from-the-ground-up restoration) to resemble my first car. It will be Old English White with a red interior with white piping. But there will be a couple of changes. For one thing, I’m having it rebuilt with negative earth instead of the positive earth on the original. I’ll eventually install period-looking speakers in the rear bulkhead. I’m replacing the original transmission with an original overdrive-equipped transmission. The four-speed w/o o/d is just not practical for today’s freeways.

So anyway. If you get the Mustang, then you’ll have a great Classic Car. Mustangs have a huge support network, so parts shouldn’t be a problem. If you fix any problems you find with it, then it should give you the same service that it gave the original owner. But remember that a lot has changed in 35 years. Your suspension and brakes are probably not what you’re used to. (I’ll have to tell you about the brakes on my '46 Willys sometime.) Climate controls will probably be different. I remember struggling to turn the knobs in the '66 MGB, after the controls stiffened up after 15 or 20 years. (Compare that to my Cherokee which has electronic controls!) And it took forever for the heater to start working. The cooling water went through a heat exchanger for interior heat. It probably works the same way now, but the Cherokee definitely warms up the cockpit faster than the MGB! Heat is an important thing in the winter. But as I said, such systems worked well enough at the time.

So if you get the Mustang you’ll have to deal with outdated systems and engineering. But you will have a great car that will only increase in value. Not that I’d suggest ever selling it. I sold my MGBs back in the '80s and it’s costing me bundle to get another one. (Although the one that’s being restored now should be a “trophy winner”, if I ever feel like entering a car show.)

Too true Johnny. And you know something? I’ve read about your love affair with MGB’s in the past - and it’s very charming to hear an American have such a love affair.

However, it has to be said that a Mustang is a far more “user friendly” Classic Car to own - insofar as that I’m told there are at least 1 million of the original 66-73 Mustangs still on the roads of the United States - and as a result, even if the owners of such cars only spend just $100 per year on their Mustang, it’s still a $100 million per year industry isn’t it? And it’s one which exists around keeping Classic Mustangs alive and well.

And there’s the rub for mine regarding some of the other more obscure Classic Cars which you can own - like for example a hand crafted limited model run Ferrari from 1964 for example. Basically, on a car like that, every single part on the car has to be special purpose rebuilt if they need replacing - which means big bikkies and lots and lots of hassle.

The thing I like about my Mustang is that the only thing impeding the car from having absolutely modern suspension, steering, and brakes is money. Every possible piece of state of the art equipment you could dream of is out there - ready for sale as a bolt on accessory with zero accessory work needed.

I suspect to a lesser degree the same sort of options are available for Corvettes, and Pontiacs and Dodges from the same era. It really is determined by supply and demand in the final analysis.

What I’m trying to say here is that arguably, a Classic Mustang is possibly the “easiest” of the lot to restore - by virtue of the sheer number which are still on the roads.

But best of luck with that MGB Johnny. We must exchange photographs one day.

Really? Why is that?

That’s what’s good about MGBs. There were some half-million of them made, and the largest percentage came to the U.S. Moss Motors has been very helpful supplying parts. The British Motor Heritage Trust is a great resource that is still producing OEM parts for British cars.

There’s a lot of stuff out there for British cars as well. Crossflow cylinder heads, modern suspensions, overdrives (hard to come by or expensive for my '66, but easily available for later models), and even blowers. :slight_smile:

But yeah, a Mustang will be much easier and cheaper to restore than an MGB (depending on initial condition). The body guy (who is taking his sweet time, BTW, having had the car since April!) usually works on American cars, but has had experience with British ones. There aren’t a lot of places that specialise in British cars. On the other hand, there are shops that specialise in only Mustangs or only Corvettes. Those cars are much more popular around here. I probably see ten or twenty classic Mustangs on the road for every MGB of any year that I see.